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[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Solas says some, not all. His comments about Clan Lavellan address how they care about what happens to everyone.

Frankly, I find it odd how some people act like an entire ethnic race of men, women, and children all act the same, despite the evidence to the contrary. Merrill, for example, voices that the plight of the city elves matters.

 

Bigotry does not require logic and, if you haven't noticed, people often act illogically. Emotions be crazy.

[Bowie Hawkins]

The canonical information shows it varies, as Lanaya, Aneirin, and Pol prove, particularly given how the first two were literally rescued. Or the Circle mage who was welcomed by Ariane's clan. To pretend as though they are always treated poorly or dismissed is disingenuous.

Furthermore, your comment about Briala is disproven by the actual game, since she gives the elves rights - unlike any other leader who sits on the Orlesian throne.

 

The canonical information shows the Dalish using "flat ears" as their slur against City elves, and who teach their young things like this about them:

 

We tell the children that the elvhen are strong, that we are a proud people, but they hear of these city elves who choose to toil under the humans' heavy hand. How do we teach them pride when they know there are others who would allow themselves to be trampled into the dust? So we tell them that these city elves are to be pitied, that they have given up on their people, given up their heritage. We tell them that some people are so used to being controlled that, when freed, they know not what to do with themselves. They are weak and afraid--afraid of the unfamiliar, afraid of our life of wandering. Above all, they are afraid even to hope that one day we may have a home of our own.

 

--Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves.

 

But maybe if Briala wasn't willing to casually dispose of quite so many of the elven servants to gain power over Celene and Gaspard, I might find it easier to believe that she's truly acting out of altruisim, rather than speaking a good game about the greater good while acting more toward her own benefit than anyone else's.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

And with statements like " we Mages are gods and We will rule over Thedas and show the people what true power is" I wonder why people hate magic.

 

Hey, its why I kill Anders.........Seriously Anders, YOUR NOT HELPING THE CAUSE.

[birefringent]

I don't want to derail you current discussion but I noticed a tiny little change in Sera's voice.

 

Very small spoiler, but it is near the endgame.

Spoiler

A minor change in the way Sera says Tadwinks to Inquisitor during their romantic relationship. Near the endgame and then after finishing the game. The last one sounds like she uses a more regular day to day voice. Perhaps something like acknowledging her presence but not making a fuss about it. Just a regular Hello. Well, I don't know, but I thought it was interesting that they have this change in the game

 

[Duelist]

Hey, its why I kill Anders.........Seriously Anders, YOUR NOT HELPING THE CAUSE.

I would've killed him but Rogue Hawke, Varric, Isabela and Anders was my go to team on Nightmare.

[LobselVith8]

The canonical information shows the Dalish using "flat ears" as their slur against City elves, and who teach their young things like this about them:

 

We tell the children that the elvhen are strong, that we are a proud people, but they hear of these city elves who choose to toil under the humans' heavy hand. How do we teach them pride when they know there are others who would allow themselves to be trampled into the dust? So we tell them that these city elves are to be pitied, that they have given up on their people, given up their heritage. We tell them that some people are so used to being controlled that, when freed, they know not what to do with themselves. They are weak and afraid--afraid of the unfamiliar, afraid of our life of wandering. Above all, they are afraid even to hope that one day we may have a home of our own.

 

--Gisharel, keeper of the Ralaferin clan of the Dalish elves.

 

You're posting an excerpt from one single man, and acting as though it's fact for every single man, woman, and child who is Dalish. All you've done is shown that there's canonical information that some Dalish look down on the city elves, which doesn't change the simple fact that it's factually inaccurate to act as though all of them behave this way.

 

We also know that some city elves denigrate the Dalish as "savages" and look down on the elves who try to leave the Alienage and live elsewhere as 'flat ears' as well; that doesn't mean all city elves hold these views, either.

 

Judging an entire ethnic group as though every single man, woman, and child is the same is completely ridiculous.

 

But maybe if Briala wasn't willing to casually dispose of quite so many of the elven servants to gain power over Celene and Gaspard, I might find it easier to believe that she's truly acting out of altruisim, rather than speaking a good game about the greater good while acting more toward her own benefit than anyone else's.

 

And how, exactly, do you know that Briala has committed any of her actions casually? You may not agree with her, but you have no evidence to show she's done anything "casually". She's waging a war for the rights of the elves of Orlais, and the Epilogue affirms that she gives the elves rights, so I'm having difficulty accepting your claims when she's clearly working for the benefit of the elves of Orlais.

[veeia]

Briala is not in it for her own personal gain. For one, if she was, she wouldn't have ended things with Celene and alienated Gaspard. 

 

She may have put a servant in a dangerous position (the scene leaves it ambiguous), but she cannot predict Gaspard/Florianne's every move, and every step she has taken is to secure rights for elves. She's not perfect, and there's certainly things to criticize, but Briala was not just living in comfort sleeping with the Empress, she was using her position to make things better for the elves, and when she realized Celene wasn't' going to commit to that, she broke away from her privilege and dedicated all her efforts to elven rights. 

[Steelcan]

Briala is not in it for her own personal gain. For one, if she was, she wouldn't have ended things with Celene and alienated Gaspard. 

 

She may have put a servant in a dangerous position (the scene leaves it ambiguous), but she cannot predict Gaspard/Florianne's every move, and every step she has taken is to secure rights for elves. She's not perfect, and there's certainly things to criticize, but Briala was not just living in comfort sleeping with the Empress, she was using her position to make things better for the elves, and when she realized Celene wasn't' going to commit to that, she broke away from her privilege and dedicated all her efforts to elven rights. 

eh more like "Celene tried to have her arrested and Briala wasn't about to take that"

[veeia]

Except that Celene arresting her actually wasn't the end of it, which we know from TME.

Anyway, OT here is usually cool but elf stuff spirals, so I'll end it there.

[Bowie Hawkins]

You're posting an excerpt from one single man, and acting as though it's fact for every single man, woman, and child who is Dalish. 

 

That's the codex entry that you get for City elves if your Warden is a Dalish elf. If it wasn't supposed to be a factual representation of Dalish beliefs about City elves, then it would have been written differently than it was.

[LobselVith8]

Except that Celene arresting her actually wasn't the end of it, which we know from TME.

Anyway, OT here is usually cool but elf stuff spirals, so I'll end it there.

True, Briala ended things with Celene by claiming the Eluvians for the elves of Orlais (since she said that Celene would betray her word to help the elves). Briala later tells Mihiris that she would accept the aid of the Dalish in her struggle as long as the Dalish treated the city elves as equals.

[Xilizhra]

Basically, Sera's breakup with an elven Inquisitor in that scenario is about the same as if she was dating Hawke but broke up with Hawke when she moved to Hightown, because now she's too noble.

[veeia]

Interesting that Sera doesn't have the same issues with a human noble. I suppose if you can show her you're good people, she can accept that, but the creators thing is too much.

[LobselVith8]

That's the codex entry that you get for City elves if your Warden is a Dalish elf. If it wasn't supposed to be a factual representation of Dalish beliefs about City elves, then it would have been written differently than it was.

If that was the case, Zathrian's clan never would have saved Aneirin's life, and Merrill wouldn't argue that the plight faced by the city elves matters. No matter how hard you try to twist it, the facts prove how silly it is to pretend as though all the Dalish are the same.

You're also ignoring Solas pointing out that the clans vary from one another due to their prolonged separation from one another. I see no reason to justify condemning an entire ethnic race.

[Xilizhra]

Interesting that Sera doesn't have the same issues with a human noble. I suppose if you can show her you're good people, she can accept that, but the creators thing is too much.

And it's specific prejudice against the Dalish, too, as she doesn't break up with an Inquisitor of any other race who claims that the events in the Temple of Mythal were genuine.

[veeia]

I wonder if that was partially a response to people not understanding why you could romance Fenris with a blood mage.

Of course, I don't think people had this scenario in mind when they were complaining

[Xilizhra]

I wonder if that was partially a response to people not understanding why you could romance Fenris with a blood mage.

Of course, I don't think people had this scenario in mind when they were complaining

Maybe Bioware needs different writers if they see this as the solution.

[LobselVith8]

Maybe Bioware needs different writers if they see this as the solution.

Or Merrill was simply a companion in the wrong game. I don't think Sera's anti-elf tendencies would be so pronounced if there was an elven companion who actually liked elven culture and didn't take issue with someone being "elfy".

[Xilizhra]

Or Merrill was simply a companion in the wrong game. I don't think Sera's anti-elf tendencies would be so pronounced if there was an elven companion who actually liked elven culture and didn't take issue with someone being "elfy".

Er, Solas?

[raging_monkey]

Maybe Bioware needs different writers if they see this as the solution.

on a roll to day my friend haha

[LobselVith8]

Er, Solas?

Spoiler

Elf, not Elven God. And it takes work to change his opinion about the Dalish.

[Bowie Hawkins]

If that was the case, Zathrian's clan never would have saved Aneirin's life, and Merrill wouldn't argue that the plight faced by the city elves matters. No matter how hard you try to twist it, the facts prove how silly it is to pretend as though all the Dalish are the same.

 

Merrill had been living with the City elves for awhile before she said that, and the codex entry did not say that City elves should be left to die, as long as you want to talk about people twisting things.

[LobselVith8]

Merrill had been living with the City elves for awhile before she said that, and the codex entry did not say that City elves should be left to die, as long as you want to talk about people twisting things.

Merrill approves of protecting non-Dalish and elven children in Act I. And if some of the Dalish care enough to rescue city elves, perhaps you should stop trying to paint them all with the same brush? We even hear talk about Dalish and Andrastian elves teaching and learning from one another. In fact, the Dalish Inquisitor can ask Solas to share his knowledge with the Dalish.

We can look at Clan Lavellan if we need another example at how erroneous it is to think that all the Dalish are the same, when they stay in Wycome to protect the elves living in the Alienage. Lavellan can even tell Solas that the Dalish are his people, so I don't see why you persist with this claim. An ethnic group of people are not all going to be the same.

Sera is wrong to judge all the Dalish as though they're part of some collective hive mind without any divergence amongst them, and so are you.