Why are people so opposed to talking about the fact that Sera is a lesbian in a thread dedicated to talking about Sera? Can any of you name a Bioware companion character who is strictly 100% gay only before Mass Effect 3? It's kind of a big fudging deal, why wouldn't people talk about it?
Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)
Débuté par
Grieving Natashina
, mars 23 2014 10:53
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#4352
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:05
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Why are people so opposed to talking about the fact that Sera is a lesbian in a thread dedicated to talking about Sera? Can any of you name a Bioware companion character who is strictly 100% gay only before Mass Effect 3? It's kind of a big fudging deal, why wouldn't people talk about it?
I think only a handful people (or maybe just one or two) are somehow against it. Post to your heart's content, I say.
Also, Juhani was fully gay in Kotor (just bugged).
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#4353
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:05
CuriousArtemis
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Is anyone planning on making her DW? I plan on playing a Dalish archer, and another archer would feel redundant 
AND I know Sera's gonna totally be his bestie, so she's definitely going to be in the team a lot. Plus her wielding daggers makes more sense to me as a city elf... of course, I'm just "assuming" she's a city elf, going by the info we have.
#4354
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:07
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It depends if she gets some specific/personal bow. I like Leliana as daggers sometimes in DAO, but it just feels right to make her an archer..because of Marjolaine.
#4355
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:11
CuriousArtemis
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It depends if she gets some specific/personal bow. I like Leliana as daggers sometimes in DAO, but it just feels right to make her an archer..because of Marjolaine.
Yeah I'm hoping she doesn't have some sort of bow that was given to her by her great-grandmother or something and was bathed in the blood of her ancestors, blah blah blah 
It's hard to make them wield a different weapon if that particular weapon becomes woven into their personal story.
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#4356
Guest_Act of Velour_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:29
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Why are people so opposed to talking about the fact that Sera is a lesbian in a thread dedicated to talking about Sera? Can any of you name a Bioware companion character who is strictly 100% gay only before Mass Effect 3? It's kind of a big fudging deal, why wouldn't people talk about it?
Because it really isn't a big deal, at all, in any way.
Sexual orientation is sexual orientation. It's equal, normal, and entirely dependent on the person. Heterosexual relationships and homosexual relationships are the same in importance, scope, and overall nature. There's nothing special, wrong, or right about having a lesbian character. That's just how she is. If people legitimately cared about sexual acceptance and equality, they'd not insist on making it a big deal when it comes up. They'd accept it, because that's what everyone should do; accept it. I don't make a big deal out of heterosexuality, and since I see homosexuality as fully equal, I see no need to make a big deal out of it either.
There are far more meaningful things to discuss in-depth about a character, not their heterosexuality/homosexuality/asexuality/etc. The thread certainly doesn't need a dozen or more pages clogged with posts about it, especially considering they all seem identical; from what I've seen they can all be tl;dr'd as "omg seras a lesbian!111"
Yes, we already know that. No need to remind us every other post, especially when there are several other threads solely dedicated to sexual orientation discussion, including one almost entirely dedicated to Sera, too. And more than "one or two" people have asked for a subject change, or at least a stop to the same identical post of expressing redundant "shock" over her lesbianism.
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#4357
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:46
KC_Prototype
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I'm a guy, who will play a male Inqui' first, and I'm still interested in Sera's character.
I just hope there is a dialogue where she reject him like Traynor in ME3, this will be pretty funny
Bruh, you don't even know.... 
I am going male for the first 3 playtrhoughs I do and I want to shamelessly and hopelessly flirt with Sera but get shut down all the time! That ME3 scene where my Shep was hinting at sex with Traynor and she was like, "Naw, I'm into girls dude" I was sooo mad! But I still finished the game of chess!
#4358
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:47
Maria Caliban
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I think we need another twenty posts discussing whether one post I made eight pages ago added to the thread or not.
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#4359
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 07:58
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I think we need another twenty posts discussing whether one post I made eight pages ago added to the thread or not.
I thought it was a good post, for what it's worth.
I don't know what being lesbian is like, so it's nice to hear one perspective.
It brought to mind something I've been saying about Vivienne elsewhere. I don't want to derail too much, but what do you think about her? To me, she has a lot (stereotypical) womanly qualities. Or just the whole world she comes from taps into things I find hard to be interested in. Ballrooms, elegant dresses, social manuevering, etc.. The quests may be fun, but I feel like an outsider to her world. Sera seems more neutral to me. I see a Rogue more than a woman. I see a potential partner in crime.
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#4360
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:01
Ailith Tycane
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Because it really isn't a big deal, at all, in any way.
As a queer gamer, no, you're absolutely wrong. It is a big deal, representation matters in media, even if it's in the form of a pixelated elf.
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#4361
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:05
Maria Caliban
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I thought it was a good post, for what it's worth.
I don't know what being lesbian is like, so it's nice to hear one perspective.
It brought to mind something I've been saying about Vivienne elsewhere. I don't want to derail too much, but what do you think about her? To me, she has a lot (stereotypical) womanly qualities. Or just the whole world she comes from taps into things I find hard to be interested in. Ballrooms, elegant dresses, social manuevering, etc.. The quests may be fun, but I feel like an outsider to her world. Sera seems more neutral to me. I see a Rogue more than a woman. I see a potential partner in crime.
I see Vivienne as elegant, intelligent, and ambitious.
I see Sera as the type of person I can relax with after a long day of being around Vivienne.
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#4362
Guest_Act of Velour_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:05
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As a queer gamer, no, you're absolutely wrong. It is a big deal, representation matters in media, even if it's in the form of a pixelated elf.
Do you think the same about heterosexual romances being portrayed?
No?
I don't either. Because it's just an orientation. And I don't see homosexuality as a major deal either, because it's just an orientation. As a bisexual gamer, I think they're both not too different.
And I don't see anyone clamoring for bisexual representation. Maybe because it's not a big deal. Because none of it's a big deal.
#4363
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:08
Ailith Tycane
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I thought it was a good post, for what it's worth.
I don't know what being lesbian is like, so it's nice to hear one perspective.
It brought to mind something I've been saying about Vivienne elsewhere. I don't want to derail too much, but what do you think about her? To me, she has a lot (stereotypical) womanly qualities. Or just the whole world she comes from taps into things I find hard to be interested in. Ballrooms, elegant dresses, social manuevering, etc.. The quests may be fun, but I feel like an outsider to her world. Sera seems more neutral to me. I see a Rogue more than a woman. I see a potential partner in crime.
If she's gay or even bi then she's really bad at it. Exaample:
No actual lesbian has fingernails like that, and I think it should be fairly obvious as to why. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if this is something the developers probably didn't even think about, it's kind of not readily apparent to a mostly heterosexual team of people. But that's only IF she's bi.
#4364
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:13
Ailith Tycane
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Do you think the same about heterosexual romances being portrayed?
No, because we live in a society where "straight" is seen as the default setting. Your argument falls under the same flawed logic as white people who claim to be "colorblind" when it comes to race. It completely devalues the lived experiences of people of color and deanies the fact that people are different. Accepting differences between people or groups of people is not being intolerant, but pretending that those differences don't exist when you yourself come from a position of potential privilege is extremely problematic.
Not wanting to dwell entirely on the fact that Sera is gay is one thing, but acting like it's somehow not a big deal that she's gay because "we're all equal" is erasure.
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#4365
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:14
Kimarous
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Please, people. We were doing so well. Let's not get into an argument over the meaningfulness of orientation. I'm sorry that I responded before, and the last thing I want is for the thread to deviate away from the actual character into a heated discussion that has probably already been said. 
#4366
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:14
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If she's gay or even bi then she's really bad at it. Exaample:
[..]
No actual lesbian has fingernails like that, and I think it should be obvious as to why. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if this is something the developers probably didn't even think about, it's kind of not readily apparent to a mostly heterosexual team of people. But that's IF she'd bi.
I'm actually wondering if Vivienne is going to be the "straight only" option. Since Cassandra is so popular.
In which case, I'll wonder what kind of male they're trying to appeal to with Vivienne. I don't presume to speak for all straight males, but I can't find anything in common personally. She's pretty, but also pretty strange. 
I'm just some t-shirt wearing lower middle class cretin. I don't fantasize about women like this. At best, I see someone with fun quests, but that's it.
#4367
Guest_Act of Velour_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:18
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No, because we live in a society where "straight" is seen as the default setting. Your argument falls under the same flawed logic as white people who claim to be "colorblind" when it comes to race. It completely devalues the lived experiences of people of color and deanies the fact that people are different. Accepting differences between people or groups of people is not being intolerant, but pretending that those differences don't exist when you yourself come from a position of potential privilege is extremely problematic.
Not wanting to dwell entirely on the fact that Sera is gay is one thing, but acting like it's somehow not a big deal that she's gay because "we're all equal" is erasure.
There's a major difference between the erasure of cultural difference, and the assumption of equality.
I never said erase Sera's orientation entirely, as if there's no culture for sexual orientation. There is, for all of them. There's plenty of racial culture, of course. All of it is valuable, and shouldn't be erased. What I did say, however, is that equality and acceptance comes from equality and acceptance. Putting heterosexual or homosexual orientation on a pedestal and giving it more attention isn't equality or acceptance. That was the point I was trying to convey.
But what I've seen so far from most posts regarding her sexuality have either been hateful posts condemning Bioware for not making her straight, posts basically saying "Sera's lesbian!" as if we're just finding out about it, and what got most of the notable replies, Maria's post regarding heterosexuals writing homosexual romances, a post which was well-answered and moved on from.
But these other posts about her orientation keep coming in, and they offer nothing to the thread. If I posted every page that "Sera's an Elf! I wonder how people will react to her being an Elf!" It's such an obvious statement, a statement that's been said and discussed; why keep making posts about it? Just the same, why insist on continuously posting the same thing about her orientation and then acting confused when some users ask that the topic advance forward?
I'm in agreement with Kimarous. This argument isn't going anywhere for anyone.
#4368
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:19
Ailith Tycane
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I'm actually wondering if Vivienne is going to be the "straight only" option. Since Cassandra is so popular.
In which case, I'll wonder what kind of male they're trying to appeal to with Vivienne. I don't presume to speak for all straight males, but I can't find anything in common personally. She's pretty, but also pretty strange.
Well if that was the case then that would mean Cassandra would have to be bi, which means she would still be available to male characters. That outcome would please me personally but who knows.
#4369
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:19
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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Well if that was the case then that would mean Cassandra would have to be bi, which means she would still be available to male characters. That outcome would please me personally but who knows.
That would be good for Cassandra fans, but I wonder for Vivienne fans.
#4370
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:22
Maria Caliban
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Leliana and Morrigan both seem like the most traditional 'appeal to straight men' characters DA has had.
Since then, they've done something different every game with their female love interests. Their male LIs don't feel as varied.
But despite what you might get from the (numerous) romance threads, none of the characters are meant to be romances first. Many of them are created and then the writers figure out who is the most romancable.
Of all the companions, I suspect only Cassandra came into DA:I with everyone sure she'd be a love interest.
Since then, they've done something different every game with their female love interests. Their male LIs don't feel as varied.
But despite what you might get from the (numerous) romance threads, none of the characters are meant to be romances first. Many of them are created and then the writers figure out who is the most romancable.
Of all the companions, I suspect only Cassandra came into DA:I with everyone sure she'd be a love interest.
#4371
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:23
Ailith Tycane
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That would be good for Cassandra fans, but I wonder for Vivienne fans.
Well now that I noticed it and brought it up the fingernail thing is really bothering me. Would they REALLY make her the bi option with those Wolverine claws on her hands? Hahaha
#4372
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:25
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Leliana and Morrigan both seem like the most traditional 'appeal to straight men' characters DA has had.
I was going to agree with what you yourself (I think?) said about Leliana earlier. That she appealed to women more. Or maybe I misread.
Because I thought she did. I romanced her a few times, but in the end, I think she's a bit girly for my male Wardens (and/or myself).
#4373
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:28
Ailith Tycane
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I was going to agree with what you yourself (I think?) said about Leliana earlier. That she appealed to women more. Or maybe I misread.
Because I thought she did. I romanced her a few times, but in the end, I think she's a bit girly for my male Wardens (and/or myself).
I think her point earlier was pointing out that Leliana, as a character, seemed to enjoy women more.
#4374
Guest_Act of Velour_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:30
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I think her point earlier was pointing out that Leliana, as a character, seemed to enjoy women more.
I'm opposite of Maria on that. Leliana seemed to be the more appealing option to women, not straight men.
#4375
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juin 2014 - 08:30
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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I think her point earlier was pointing out that Leliana, as a character, seemed to enjoy women more.
Well that too. I don't want to make it all about my own perspective. She has her own as well (fictional though she may be).
