100552 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

Got it. Or at the very least I got one person's translation. 

 

Solas: Ar dirthan'as ir elgara ma'sula e'var vhenan. 
Solas: I'm talking in your language, that spirits sang me where our home was. 

Solas: Fenedis latha. 
Solas: Little wolf's lover

[Bowie Hawkins]

Question, y'all. Where the hell did Sandal go this game? 

 

Solas finally woke the rest of the way up, realised he'd somehow managed to drift into a dwarf's body, and jumped into a new elf host?

[The Loyal Nub]

 

Okay, my disjointed, rambling Viv thoughts.

 

Spoiler

 

Viv is all about control, but it's not because she's power hungry like people believe. I think it's very clearly due to trauma she endured as a young mage. Of course we don't get specifics but as always, banter with Cole gives a huge insight: 

 

Inquisitor: Cole, Vivienne doesn't want to talk right now.

Cole: She's afraid!

Cole: Everything bright, roar of anger as the demon rears. No, I will not fall. No one will ever control me again.

Cole: Flash of white as the world comes back. Shaking, hollow, Harrowed, but smiling at templars to show them I'm me.

 

Getting the "gift" of magic is clearly a traumatic event for a lot of mages, because they can't always control it, and when it's noticed, their entire world is turned upside down. They're taken away from their families, stripped of any rights or titles, and thrown under lock and key. We have no idea what Viv's life was like before she was a mage, or how her power manifested, but even if it was all fairly benign, it's still a traumatic experience. 

 

Viv and Sera make a great contrast, because both experienced the loss of control that comes with being on the lower rung, but while Sera's response was to want to throw tomatoes at the system, Viv wanted to get on top of it and make it hers. They both have a rather rigid response to it, Viv pulling inwards to grab the reins and never let go, Sera getting wound up and angry and exploding outwards.  They both want order and stability though, because they are both keenly aware that a lack of greater order is what causes those destabilizing situations that they're both so terrified of.

 

 Another key thing with Viv is that she's the only one who gives approval and comments approvingly to you if you save everyone at Haven. It makes her very happy when leaders use their power efficiently to help the people beneath them.  I think part of the reason Viv is so invested in the direction of the Inquisition, and mages in the Chantry is that she wants the power, not only because of her own control issues due to fear, but because she would use it responsibly and create systems that would protect people. (And she does, if you look at her Divine slides). I think for her, its a bit out of character to start rambling about the little people, because she’s spent so long manipulating Orlesian nobility and her mentality won’t allow her to fully empathize with victims (because she was one, and she transformed herself into something else so she keeps a barrier there) but there are plenty of hints that she cares, and much of her disapproval comes from when you take actions that she thinks endangers the stability of people’s lives.

 

What makes me so sad about Viv is how isolated she is. When she says things like "sentimentality  is not an option" or "my opinion doesn't matter when there are facts", she means it. She triumphs externally at the expense of her internal world. She doesn't form close connections, and when she does (like with Bastien), there are always walls, barriers, rationalizations (he's wealthy and can help her) and she always holds herself at arms length, because she knows from experience that the best way for someone to control you is for you to care about them. I do think that when you get high approval with her, Indira does a great job of ever so slightly varying her tone so that Viv doesn't sound like she's condescending to you, but it's more of a playful thing that lets you in with her on it, if not pulls you in completely. I actually really dislike that you (or anyone) couldn't reach out to Viv more, or have her form something more meaningful. I think they focused so much on her as a badass they forgot how lonely the stoic badass is inherently. I think she and hardened, unromanced Leli have a lot in common there.  

 

 

You're making me want to hug Viv. Well done. Very well presented argument.

[SardaukarElite]

You're making me want to hug Viv.

 

She wouldn't appreciate it darling.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Solas finally woke the rest of the way up, realised he'd somehow managed to drift into a dwarf's body, and jumped into a new elf host?

 

Hey, if Sera might be elf god in disguise, then why can't Sandal. I buy it. 

[LightningPoodle]

I have takeaway. For the third time today. 

[Basement Cat]

 

Okay, my disjointed, rambling Viv thoughts.

 

Spoiler

 

Viv is all about control, but it's not because she's power hungry like people believe. I think it's very clearly due to trauma she endured as a young mage. Of course we don't get specifics but as always, banter with Cole gives a huge insight: 

 

Inquisitor: Cole, Vivienne doesn't want to talk right now.

Cole: She's afraid!

Cole: Everything bright, roar of anger as the demon rears. No, I will not fall. No one will ever control me again.

Cole: Flash of white as the world comes back. Shaking, hollow, Harrowed, but smiling at templars to show them I'm me.

 

Getting the "gift" of magic is clearly a traumatic event for a lot of mages, because they can't always control it, and when it's noticed, their entire world is turned upside down. They're taken away from their families, stripped of any rights or titles, and thrown under lock and key. We have no idea what Viv's life was like before she was a mage, or how her power manifested, but even if it was all fairly benign, it's still a traumatic experience. 

 

Viv and Sera make a great contrast, because both experienced the loss of control that comes with being on the lower rung, but while Sera's response was to want to throw tomatoes at the system, Viv wanted to get on top of it and make it hers. They both have a rather rigid response to it, Viv pulling inwards to grab the reins and never let go, Sera getting wound up and angry and exploding outwards.  They both want order and stability though, because they are both keenly aware that a lack of greater order is what causes those destabilizing situations that they're both so terrified of.

 

 Another key thing with Viv is that she's the only one who gives approval and comments approvingly to you if you save everyone at Haven. It makes her very happy when leaders use their power efficiently to help the people beneath them.  I think part of the reason Viv is so invested in the direction of the Inquisition, and mages in the Chantry is that she wants the power, not only because of her own control issues due to fear, but because she would use it responsibly and create systems that would protect people. (And she does, if you look at her Divine slides). I think for her, its a bit out of character to start rambling about the little people, because she’s spent so long manipulating Orlesian nobility and her mentality won’t allow her to fully empathize with victims (because she was one, and she transformed herself into something else so she keeps a barrier there) but there are plenty of hints that she cares, and much of her disapproval comes from when you take actions that she thinks endangers the stability of people’s lives.

 

What makes me so sad about Viv is how isolated she is. When she says things like "sentimentality  is not an option" or "my opinion doesn't matter when there are facts", she means it. She triumphs externally at the expense of her internal world. She doesn't form close connections, and when she does (like with Bastien), there are always walls, barriers, rationalizations (he's wealthy and can help her) and she always holds herself at arms length, because she seems to knows from experience that the best way for someone to control you is for you to care about them. I do think that when you get high approval with her, Indira does a great job of ever so slightly varying her tone so that Viv doesn't sound like she's condescending to you, but it's more of a playful thing that lets you in with her on it, if not pulls you in completely. I actually really dislike that you (or anyone) couldn't reach out to Viv more, or have her form something more meaningful. I think they focused so much on her as a badass they forgot how lonely the stoic badass is inherently. I think she and hardened, unromanced Leli have a lot in common there.  

 

Very interesting! Here's my own ramblings about Vivienne.

 

Spoiler

Her greatest fear is irrelevance. That carries a great many implications. If she's irrelevant, she can easily be disposed of, brushed aside, ignored, etc. That would tie in with that fear of being controlled you mentioned. Irrelevant people are used (ie controlled) by others. But then 'being controlled' is not her greatest fear, so what else goes with being irrelevant? Being powerless to act. She wants the world to be neat and ordered and for that she needs power to make it so, hence her ambition.

 

Her personal quest manages to hit all her weak spots: she can't control the situation, she is powerless to change it and her actions made no difference, that is they were irrelevant. She also cared for Bastien, which adds to the pain.

 

She really is similar to Sera in that they both hate when things get out of control. Sera reacts by lashing out (beating up that noble to death) while Vivienne reacts by shutting down even further. 

 

Something interesting about the dynamic between these two is that, while Vivienne never lets Sera get one over her, she doesn't outright dismiss her like she does Cole. If anything she seems to be enjoying their little bouts even if Sera is hopelessly out of her league.

[Artemis Leonhart]

I think I did. Sorry Auntie Artemis. 

 

There, there, it's ok. Everyone makes mistakes, let's just hope Serza will forgive you and come back here with all of us.
 

First I find out you play on PC with a controller, now this?

 

 

*hides her own controller under the bed*

*goes away whistling innocently*



 

You know what i also love in the fandoms? Theories. No matter if riduculous or not, some of them can be very... exciting.

 

A theory about Sera, here.

 

 

Dear god though, this person uses a very shiny theme and the font is so small, i almost went blind. Just hit ctrl and + to zoom in. A elven nerd might love this theory.

 

Theory unlikely...but awesome nonetheless.
 

 

Okay, my disjointed, rambling Viv thoughts.

 

Spoiler

 

Viv is all about control, but it's not because she's power hungry like people believe. I think it's very clearly due to trauma she endured as a young mage. Of course we don't get specifics but as always, banter with Cole gives a huge insight: 

 

Inquisitor: Cole, Vivienne doesn't want to talk right now.

Cole: She's afraid!

Cole: Everything bright, roar of anger as the demon rears. No, I will not fall. No one will ever control me again.

Cole: Flash of white as the world comes back. Shaking, hollow, Harrowed, but smiling at templars to show them I'm me.

 

Getting the "gift" of magic is clearly a traumatic event for a lot of mages, because they can't always control it, and when it's noticed, their entire world is turned upside down. They're taken away from their families, stripped of any rights or titles, and thrown under lock and key. We have no idea what Viv's life was like before she was a mage, or how her power manifested, but even if it was all fairly benign, it's still a traumatic experience. 

 

Viv and Sera make a great contrast, because both experienced the loss of control that comes with being on the lower rung, but while Sera's response was to want to throw tomatoes at the system, Viv wanted to get on top of it and make it hers. They both have a rather rigid response to it, Viv pulling inwards to grab the reins and never let go, Sera getting wound up and angry and exploding outwards.  They both want order and stability though, because they are both keenly aware that a lack of greater order is what causes those destabilizing situations that they're both so terrified of.

 

 Another key thing with Viv is that she's the only one who gives approval and comments approvingly to you if you save everyone at Haven. It makes her very happy when leaders use their power efficiently to help the people beneath them.  I think part of the reason Viv is so invested in the direction of the Inquisition, and mages in the Chantry is that she wants the power, not only because of her own control issues due to fear, but because she would use it responsibly and create systems that would protect people. (And she does, if you look at her Divine slides). I think for her, its a bit out of character to start rambling about the little people, because she’s spent so long manipulating Orlesian nobility and her mentality won’t allow her to fully empathize with victims (because she was one, and she transformed herself into something else so she keeps a barrier there) but there are plenty of hints that she cares, and much of her disapproval comes from when you take actions that she thinks endangers the stability of people’s lives.

 

What makes me so sad about Viv is how isolated she is. When she says things like "sentimentality  is not an option" or "my opinion doesn't matter when there are facts", she means it. She triumphs externally at the expense of her internal world. She doesn't form close connections, and when she does (like with Bastien), there are always walls, barriers, rationalizations (he's wealthy and can help her) and she always holds herself at arms length, because she seems to knows from experience that the best way for someone to control you is for you to care about them. I do think that when you get high approval with her, Indira does a great job of ever so slightly varying her tone so that Viv doesn't sound like she's condescending to you, but it's more of a playful thing that lets you in with her on it, if not pulls you in completely. I actually really dislike that you (or anyone) couldn't reach out to Viv more, or have her form something more meaningful. I think they focused so much on her as a badass they forgot how lonely the stoic badass is inherently. I think she and hardened, unromanced Leli have a lot in common there.  

 

See, this is why I love this thread: lots of interesting, insightful posts, pervy jokes, etc.

[The Loyal Nub]

She wouldn't appreciate it darling.

 

I'm the Inquisitor. I've got an army. A freakin' huge army. Several thousand mages at my command. She'll take the hug.

[veeia]

Very interesting! Here's my own ramblings about Vivienne.

 

Spoiler

Her greatest fear is irrelevance. That carries a great many implications. If she's irrelevant, she can easily be disposed of, brushed aside, ignored, etc. That would tie in with that fear of being controlled you mentioned. Irrelevant people are used (ie controlled) by others. But then 'being controlled' is not her greatest fear, so what else goes with being irrelevant? Being powerless to act. She wants the world to be neat and ordered and for that she needs power to make it so, hence her ambition.

 

Her personal quest manages to hit all her weak spots: she can't control the situation, she is powerless to change it and her actions made no difference, that is they were irrelevant. She also cared for Bastien, which adds to the pain.

 

She really is similar to Sera in that they both hate when things get out of control. Sera reacts by lashing out (beating up that noble to death) while Vivienne reacts by shutting down even further. 

 

Something interesting about the dynamic between these two is that, while Vivienne never lets Sera get one over her, she doesn't outright dismiss her like she does Cole. If anything she seems to be enjoying their little bouts even if Sera is hopelessly out of her league.

 

It's also interesting that the Nightmare demon taunts her about her age, and she's affected by it. To me it read as her being aware that she's made a lot of strides, but she hasn't made the change she wants and her plans got all messed up by the war (one of the reasons she hates Fiona and the rebel mages so much),so she's very worried about her ability to do the things she thinks are necessary in the time she has...of course, she's not that old, but it's a very Orlesian mentality, I think, and Viv is also very aware of how her stature as a powerful and beautiful woman help her out. 

 

I definitely think the irrevelance thing is where her control freak comes from. There's one banter with Cole where he's reading her thoughts about when she was younger, and all the nobles around her are dismissing her. She wants to be relevant, so she's not disposable...and yes, that neatly ties into the ability to change things. 

[AddieTheElf]

You know what i also love in the fandoms? Theories. No matter if riduculous or not, some of them can be very... exciting.

 

A theory about Sera, here.

 

 

Dear god though, this person uses a very shiny theme and the font is so small, i almost went blind. Just hit ctrl and + to zoom in. A elven nerd might love this theory.

 

It also fits into what Cole says something along the lines of There is a song in Sera, silly in silence (something like this, i'm trying to find the actual quote) and it's waiting for her to hear it. (She also has the deja vu banter with Cole as well as Solas - don't remember if it was brought up, but her ears always point to the fade - he doesnt mention it with Solas or Elf inquisitor, so it's a Sera thing)

 

Edit: Cole says: 

• Cole:There are songs in every part of you, Sera. Soft silly sibilant, sighing in silence, waiting for you to hear them.

Thanks bayosera!

 

not sure if related or if it was just Solas being curious, but she is the only one he asks (that I know of at least) what she sees in the sky, and when he asks about the breach, she gives the usual answer, but then she goes on to how she keeps looking and it almost feels like falling with this dream-y far off voice but then shakes out of it and tell Solas it makes her head hurt and so does he.

 

 

Not trying to come across as a smart ass but I've been having conversations like this with my girlfriend  a person who very much is in a love-mostly hate relationship with Sera, and we've brought up the times the walking Spoilers have brought up something specific about Sera that wasn't really addressed in the plot.   I'll shut up now.... I'm catching up... it seems the thread jumps to life when i decide to sleep....

[Fiery Phoenix]

Great stuff, Cat and Veeia. I always felt there was a link between Viv and Sera in spite of all their internal differences. You guys have pretty much nailed it. 

 

Once again, it does depress me that so many folks conveniently write off the pair as bad and horribly written characters that have no place in the Inquisition.

[Basement Cat]

@Veeia

 

To continue on this theme: the old age thing might tie in with her fear of losing control: maybe she's afraid of going senile or losing her faculties. Old people are often shoved aside and since she has no friends or family to speak of, not real ones at least, she would be abandoned.

 

I think the funniest thing about Cole is that he is probably the simplest character in the game. He wants to help people because that's his purpose. That's it. But having him around allows us to understand everyone else so much better. He is so keen on helping people that he even helps the player. He's so meta.

[WildOrchid]

It also fits into what Cole says something along the lines of There is a song in Sera, silly in silence (something like this, i'm trying to find the actual quote) and it's waiting for her to hear it. (She also has the deja vu banter with Cole as well as Solas - don't remember if it was brought up, but her ears always point to the fade - he doesnt mention it with Solas or Elf inquisitor, so it's a Sera thing)

 

not sure if related or if it was just Solas being curious, but she is the only one he asks (that I know of at least) what she sees in the sky, and when he asks about the breach, she gives the usual answer, but then she goes on to how she keeps looking and it almost feels like falling with this dream-y far off voice but then shakes out of it and tell Solas it makes her head hurt and so does he.

 

 

Not trying to come across as a smart ass but I've been having conversations like this with my girlfriend  a person who very much is in a love-mostly hate relationship with Sera, and we've brought up the times the walking Spoilers have brought up something specific about Sera that wasn't really addressed in the plot.   I'll shut up now...

 

Nope, don't shut up pls. Moar of this is always good. Discussing theories and such is nice.

[LightningPoodle]

Nope, don't shut up pls. Moar of this is always good. Discussing theories and such is nice.

 

I agree. The more theories I hear, the more theories I can tell my friends and pretend I thought up. 

[The Loyal Nub]

Nope, don't shut up pls. Moar of this is always good. Discussing theories and such is nice.

 

I'm really enjoying how much thought people have put into this. Have to go to a holiday office party now.

[Lady Luminous]

I love the theories! People are brilliant, and I find it just plain fascinating to see people's thoughts unfold!

[LightningPoodle]

I'm really enjoying how much thought people have put into this. Have to go to a holiday office party now.

 

Because they are never fun. Get drunk, sleep with a co-worker, awkward silence.

[Basement Cat]

Great stuff, Cat and Veeia. I always felt there was a link between Viv and Sera in spite of all their internal differences. You guys have pretty much nailed it. 

 

Once again, it does depress me that so many folks conveniently write off the pair as bad and horribly written characters that have no place in the Inquisition.

Some people think 'I hate this character' = 'this character is poorly written'. None of the characters are badly written here, I think. They all have strengths, weaknesses, things they are confident in and things they are insecure about. It's impossible to get along with everyone in real life, why should it be different in a video game? Some personalities are bound to grate. In fact, not seeing eye to eye with everyone shows the strength of the writing.

 

Badly written characters tend to bore rather than infuriate.

[WildOrchid]

Badly written characters tend to bore rather than infuriate.

 

Like Jacob Taylor tbh.

[prosthetic soul]

Like Jacob Taylor tbh.

You like people who cheat on you? 

[bayosera]

It also fits into what Cole says something along the lines of There is a song in Sera, silly in silence (something like this, i'm trying to find the actual quote) and it's waiting for her to hear it. (She also has the deja vu banter with Cole as well as Solas - don't remember if it was brought up, but her ears always point to the fade - he doesnt mention it with Solas or Elf inquisitor, so it's a Sera thing)

 

not sure if related or if it was just Solas being curious, but she is the only one he asks (that I know of at least) what she sees in the sky, and when he asks about the breach, she gives the usual answer, but then she goes on to how she keeps looking and it almost feels like falling with this dream-y far off voice but then shakes out of it and tell Solas it makes her head hurt and so does he.

 

 

Not trying to come across as a smart ass but I've been having conversations like this with my girlfriend  a person who very much is in a love-mostly hate relationship with Sera, and we've brought up the times the walking Spoilers have brought up something specific about Sera that wasn't really addressed in the plot.   I'll shut up now.... I'm catching up... it seems the thread jumps to life when i decide to sleep....

The quote is 

• Cole: There are songs in every part of you, Sera. Soft silly sibilant, sighing in silence, waiting for you to hear them.

[AddieTheElf]

Alright... but you guys asked for it here goes the stage fright While Cole may have just been talking about how there are aspects to Sera she has yet to realize, I think the "songs" are connected to the songs deep imbedded into DA lore... it has everything to do with magic and the "old magics" - Lyrium sings - Justice the spirit told us in DA:A, the fade sings, old gods sing - spirits are able to hear it, as Cole was able to hear the song the Darkspawn were drawn to in Asunder. And we have some thoughts on somehow Sera is connected to the fade.... so I think there is something special about Sera we haven't yet discovered - her being afraid of magic could have everything to do with how sensitive she is to it, the connection she has... or her fear could have stunted the connection, making her ignore. 

 

Also if the Goddess theory is true, then rejecting her people's past could also be a hindrance in this situation - I'm not sure how I stand on this, I love Sera, and I love the elven lore... tough spot. I don't want Sera to change who she is, just open her mind up a bit. But who said that she doesnt contain the soul of the goddess of the hunt - who tried to get through the fade (which is a theory of where fen'heral trapped them) and idk attached onto an unsuspecting elf with latent magical abilities? (like how the old god's soul could be "passed around" it seems... But again this is just a theory and I'm not sure how believable it is... I'm just entertaining thoughts.. I can just be reading too deep into things.)

 

I took her to that one abandoned mansion in the Emerald graves (NO IDEA HOW CREEPY IT WOULD BE, my elf was right along side her with NOPE, I UNDERSTAND YOUR FEAR) and I brought Solas, after reading the passages, Solas was saying something about how Surpressing magic never ended well. and Sera replied with something along the lines of "Yeah maybe for you" --- again not the exact quote. Could've just been Sera with her quick non-thinking comebacks

 

But I'm not sure... It's all a lot but I think there's something... which is why I thought there may be a dlc pertaining to Sera and her... oddities

[Basement Cat]

You like people who cheat on you? 

I think she meant he is boring.

[LightningPoodle]

You like people who cheat on you? 

 

Did he cheat?