100552 réponses à ce sujet

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

After hearing Cole talk about how Leliana still has her old traumatic nightmares when hardened, but 'can sing again' when unhardened, I've been officially nope'd out of ever doing the hardened path for her again. 

 

My bb needs to be happy.

[LightningPoodle]

After hearing Cole talk about how Leliana still has her old traumatic nightmares when hardened, but 'can sing again' when unhardened, I've been officially nope'd out of ever doing the hardened path for her again. 

 

My bb needs to be happy.

 

Traumatic nightmares?

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Traumatic nightmares?

 

According to Cole's mind-probing, she has them all the time. 

 

Apparently if you harden her she just pushes them away a bit better. ;_;

[Basement Cat]

I just feel sad for Leliana when she's hardened. It's not that she kills people, it's just how dark her outlook is and how cold she gets. I love Lel'a compassion and silliness, and the idea of her getting angrier and angrier and less ...happy, bums me out. I wish it didn't seem like a choice between binary idealism and pragmatism.

She's always been like that though. Hardened Leliana in Origins was more pragmatic and fun-loving, whereas in Inquisition she really seems to go into full-blown insanity. It shows especially if she becomes Divine. Soft Leliana is an idealist reformer who uses diplomacy and it works according to the slide. Hard Leliana basically enacts a reign of terror. Her intentions are still good, but her methods... I don't think her reforms will stick once she's gone because people will want to erase any trace of her reign. 

[LightningPoodle]

According to Cole's mind-probing, she has them all the time. 

 

Apparently if you harden her she just pushes them away a bit better. ;_;

 

 

 

Not doing it! Have to recreate all of my characters again.

 

Not going have her feeling sad. Just... no way.

[Basement Cat]

Here's what Cole says about Leliana:

 

Spoiler

Neutral: The Left Hand remembers a knife slipped to her in the darkness and wonders why the flower blooms.

Hard: The Left Hand is harder. Faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse, but sends them away faster.

Soft: The Left Hand blooms on the bush, remembering the light that shone in her darkness. She knows how to sing again.

[LightningPoodle]

Here's what Cole says about Leliana:

 

Spoiler

Neutral: The Left Hand remembers a knife slipped to her in the darkness and wonders why the flower blooms.

Hard: The Left Hand is harder. Faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse, but sends them away faster.

Soft: The Left Hand blooms on the bush, remembering the light that shone in her darkness. She knows how to sing again.

 

She's remembering the incident where Marjolaine betrayed her, and Mother Dorothea came to her. If she's hardened, her focus is more on the pain of the betrayal, if she is softened, she remember the good within people.

[WildOrchid]

Eh I've said it dozen of times anyway, I much prefer darth Lels, first time round told her to kill that Chantry sis, tie up that lose end, a lot of people died in that run, wasn't going to correct Leliana on how to do her job as a spymaster, come now. But in saying that when she felt remorse for what happened to her scouts and when she mourned for Justinia I was very sympathetic towards her. Unlike the Sera one which wasn't something I initiated and I wasn't surprised by Leliana's actions whereas I was with Sera's noble head smashing in. First playthrough didn't take the noble perk, now I know better.

 

Crimmy, i mean the people who have been wanting to kill Sera for killing the noble without the quizzy's orders. Leliana does clearly ignore an order and nobody cares about it nor wanted to "kill her for being an unstable member".

 

Either they missed it or they're big hypocrites. It's the hypocrisy of haters that drove me up the wall and made me post that bit info that can be easily missed.

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Here's what Cole says about Leliana:

 

Spoiler

Neutral: The Left Hand remembers a knife slipped to her in the darkness and wonders why the flower blooms.

Hard: The Left Hand is harder. Faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse, but sends them away faster.

Soft: The Left Hand blooms on the bush, remembering the light that shone in her darkness. She knows how to sing again.

 

Yep. Serious nope to hardened Leli tbh.

[CrimsonN7]

Here's what Cole says about Leliana:

 

Spoiler

Neutral: The Left Hand remembers a knife slipped to her in the darkness and wonders why the flower blooms.

Hard: The Left Hand is harder. Faith fallen in folly. It makes the dreams worse, but sends them away faster.

Soft: The Left Hand blooms on the bush, remembering the light that shone in her darkness. She knows how to sing again.

 

Ugh I hate how actions where you stand back and allow her to take the path she believes suits best or if you need to remove a traitorous enemy of the Inquisition as sometimes those actions are completely necessary and I have no qualms in doing so it will lead to a potential nervous breakdown Lels. And the telling her off approach, asking her not to kill a traitor and questioning her motives making her sound incompetent and the PC sounding like a judgemental douchecanoe you'll be rewarded with sunshine and bunnies Lels. Grinds my gears. Pity we couldn't have the nice medium of DAO hardened Lels.

[Artemis Leonhart]

After hearing Cole talk about how Leliana still has her old traumatic nightmares when hardened, but 'can sing again' when unhardened, I've been officially nope'd out of ever doing the hardened path for her again. 

 

My bb needs to be happy.

Odd, Cole never commented on Leli in my playthrough...or maybe I don't remember it, playthrough was long. When/where does he say this?

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

Do you want to beat nightmare with ease? Play an Archer. Use stealth correctly and you'll never get targeted.

[LightningPoodle]

Ugh I hate how actions where you stand back and allow her to take the path she believes suits best or if you need to remove a traitorous enemy of the Inquisition as sometimes those actions are completely necessary and I have no qualms in doing so it will lead to a potential nervous breakdown Lels. And the telling her off approach, asking her not to kill a traitor and questioning her motives making her sound incompetent and the PC sounding like a judgemental douchecanoe you'll be rewarded with sunshine and bunnies Lels. Grinds my gears. Pity we couldn't have the nice medium of DAO hardened Lels.

 

That's called an intervention, Darling.

 

[veeia]

She's always been like that though. Hardened Leliana in Origins was more pragmatic and fun-loving, whereas in Inquisition she really seems to go into full-blown insanity. It shows especially if she becomes Divine. Soft Leliana is an idealist reformer who uses diplomacy and it works according to the slide. Hard Leliana basically enacts a reign of terror. Her intentions are still good, but her methods... I don't think her reforms will stick once she's gone because people will want to erase any trace of her reign. 

 

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of the choice in Origins, but it at least seemed more balanced and natural. It felt easier to justify for her personally either way as well as from a character motivation perspective.

 

Here, to me, it feels like softened Leliana is clearly the better option for Leli, but hardened Leli is the one the game pushes you towards...idk, I suppose I still need to finish my softened run before I can really speak to it, but it just doesn't work that well for me. 

[Basement Cat]

Crimmy, i mean the people who have been wanting to kill Sera for killing the noble without the quizzy's orders. Leliana does clearly ignore an order and nobody cares about it nor wanted to "kill her for being an unstable member".

 

Either they missed it or they're big hypocrites. It's the hypocrisy of haters that drove me up the wall and made me post that bit info that can be easily missed.

Oh, plenty of people want to kill Leliana, including for the reasons you mentioned. It's just that the people who hate Sera and those who hate Leliana are not always the same.

 

Love and hate are extremes and people tend to ignore/minimize the aspects that don't fit their perspective. It's not worth getting worked up over. There have been hate threads for just about every character in the franchise.

 

Lots of people excuse Sera's less than glowing character traits because of her freudian excuse (her adoptive mother deceived her and taught her to hate).

 

I've complained about Sera's lack of character growth before, but looking back on the rest of the cast, few of them actually change much. Compare Alistair in DAO: he could go from being an insecure, fairly whiny man to a more assertive and an excellent king. Big change. Isabela could go from utterly selfish to taking a big risk for her friend's/lover's sake. In Inquisition? Dorian is and remains a man who wants to reform his homeland. Cassandra remains a deeply religious and righteous person. Vivienne remains ambitious and driven. Varric is still the team dad.

 

The only people who undergo significant change in Inquisition are Cole, Iron Bull and Leliana (again). Otherwise we just get to know our people better. We discover the aspects they don't share with everyone. Their fears, their pains, their hopes. It fits with most of them being older and more set in their ways. They can still learn, but who they are is pretty much established.

[CrimsonN7]

That's called an intervention, Darling.

 

 

And who the bloody hell is the Inquisitor to judge Lels so harshly, look at all the folk we've killed in the name of the Inquisition, pls.

[LightningPoodle]

Why would one want to kill Leliana? She's the gorgeous babe you just want to put on a pedestal and gawk at for eternity. Well I do anyway.

[LightningPoodle]

And who the bloody hell is the Inquisitor to judge Lels so harshly, look at all the folk we've killed in the name of the Inquisition, pls.

 

That... is fair enough. And I'm not arguing with you, Biscuit. Arguments with me tend to drive people away... 

[I WANT YOU TO FUCK ME JERY]

Ugh I hate how actions where you stand back and allow her to take the path she believes suits best or if you need to remove a traitorous enemy of the Inquisition as sometimes those actions are completely necessary and I have no qualms in doing so it will lead to a potential nervous breakdown Lels. And the telling her off approach, asking her not to kill a traitor and questioning her motives making her sound incompetent and the PC sounding like a judgemental douchecanoe you'll be rewarded with sunshine and bunnies Lels. Grinds my gears. Pity we couldn't have the nice medium of DAO hardened Lels.

 

To be fair, it does make a bit more sense to bring a traitor in for questioning rather than just killing them outright. Which is basically what that option ends up doing.

 

 

Odd, Cole never commented on Leli in my playthrough...or maybe I don't remember it, playthrough was long. When/where does he say this?

 

Just one of his random tavern comments, if I recall. I've only gotten it once.

[Duelist]

Do you want to beat nightmare with ease? Play an Archer. Use stealth correctly and you'll never get targeted.

I just finished trying out an all Rogue party with three archers and me as a melee rogue.

Between Cole critting for about 10k on Full Draw from stealth, Varric spamming archery talents and mines and Sera with her flasks, there was almost nothing for me to do.

Were I to roll an archer party though, I'd probably go Artificer.

[Basement Cat]

Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of the choice in Origins, but it at least seemed more balanced and natural. It felt easier to justify for her personally either way as well as from a character motivation perspective.

 

Here, to me, it feels like softened Leliana is clearly the better option for Leli, but hardened Leli is the one the game pushes you towards...idk, I suppose I still need to finish my softened run before I can really speak to it, but it just doesn't work that well for me. 

To me the choice in Inquisition is just the PC flexing their leadership muscles. The game eventually forces us to step up on the mage/templar issue, but it's possible to assert ourselves earlier. That is one of the occasions. Recruiting the other companions, getting agents, etc. are other such occasions.

 

We can choose to present it as an idealistic choice, or we can go pragmatic and tell her to use the guy as a resource. Find out who subverted him, who he works for. He knows Leliana's agents. Maybe he knows the other side's agents too? Besides, the guy could be used to spread false information to the enemy. I was disappointed that that wasn't an option. We know the guy is a traitor, but he doesn't know that we know. Use him to trap the enemy or make them waste resources. 

 

Basically, my Inquisitor told her off for lacking imagination. "Exploit him, dum dum!" was essentially my reply. That would have turned the guy into an unwitting counter spy. That tactic has been used throughout history and is still being used.

[WildOrchid]

That's called an intervention, Darling.

 

 

There's another Hangover movie?????????????

Man, I regret watching the first. Hours of my life wasted.

 

*snip*

 

Fair enough, i probably missed those Leli hate posts..... since the Sera hate floods these kind of threads. People have been clearly acting like Sera is the spawn of Satan, whereas others aren't any different tbh. It's the hyperbole that surprises me.

[LightningPoodle]

There's another Hangover movie?????????????

Man, I regret watching the first. Hours of my life wasted.

 

I only liked the first. The second was the exact same thing and the third, just threw together all the loose little ends that somehow remained from the first and second and made a movie out of it.

[veeia]

Nice, Cat. Maybe it just didn't work for this specific Inquisitor, and I'm being too harsh on it. I certainly haven't investigated all the dialogue options. 

 

I will say that I like that it's apparently the result of a chain of dialogue options, not just one, which is much more effective to me. 

[Basement Cat]

There's another Hangover movie?????????????

Man, I regret watching the first. Hours of my life wasted.

 

 

Fair enough, i probably missed those Leli hate posts..... since the Sera hate floods these kind of threads. People have been clearly acting like Sera is the spawn of Satan, whereas others aren't any different tbh. It's the hyperbole that surprises me.

Of course they use hyperbole. It's emotion based. I don't care if they don't like her character, the thing that drives me nuts is the people who say she's badly written. Or when they say that about any character to justify their hate.