100552 réponses à ce sujet

[LightningPoodle]

The hell? I just got a like on a post 200+ pages back.

[Roamingmachine]

She's always been like that though. Hardened Leliana in Origins was more pragmatic and fun-loving, whereas in Inquisition she really seems to go into full-blown insanity. It shows especially if she becomes Divine. Soft Leliana is an idealist reformer who uses diplomacy and it works according to the slide. Hard Leliana basically enacts a reign of terror. Her intentions are still good, but her methods... I don't think her reforms will stick once she's gone because people will want to erase any trace of her reign.

I see it a bit diffrently...a soft Leliana could be sidelined by her rather numerous enemies since she wont be willing to confront them directly. Remember, all they have to do is stonewall her on her reforms wheras Leli has to both break through them and try to convince the faithful that being a bigoted douchecanoe is a bad thing. Any compromise would basically be a victory to her opposition, diluting her reforms. Simply purging her enemies and replacing them with people loyal to her and her cause is simply more workable in my view. The longevitiy of her legacy would depend on how thorough she is with her purge.

Anyway, just popped in to wish all of you merry christmas I might follow a bit older calendar , but i'm not going to turn down a second feast

[Basement Cat]

Nice, Cat. Maybe it just didn't work for this specific Inquisitor, and I'm being too harsh on it. I certainly haven't investigated all the dialogue options. 

 

I will say that I like that it's apparently the result of a chain of dialogue options, not just one, which is much more effective to me. 

I was so mean to Leliana. When she plays the 'ideals' card, I picked 'killing him is a waste' and when she complained I picked 'find another way' which leads to the line 'I expected better from the Inquisition's spymaster'. Ooh, that glare she gave me. That's right, girl, rise to the challenge!

 

My Inquisitor is the 'tough love' type.

[WildOrchid]

Of course they use hyperbole. It's emotion based. I don't care if they don't like her character, the thing that drives me nuts is the people who say she's badly written. Or when they say that about any character to justify their hate.

 

Oh yes...... the Sera hate thread has many posts like this.

Or that she's a heartless biotch and other gems. Gotta love these kind of posts.

 

It's obvious that hate can cloud many of the character's good things and focus only on the bad things, thus use some dose of hyberbole too to make it even more dramatic.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Gave it to Blackwall also

 

[Basement Cat]

I see it a bit diffrently...a soft Leliana could be sidelined by her rather numerous enemies since she wont be willing to confront them directly. Remember, all they have to do is stonewall her on her reforms wheras Leli has to both break through them and try to convince the faithful that being a bigoted douchecanoe is a bad thing. Any compromise would basically be a victory to her opposition, diluting her reforms. Simply purging her enemies and replacing them with people loyal to her and her cause is simply more workable in my view. The longevitiy of her legacy would depend on how thorough she is with her purge.

Anyway, just popped in to wish all of you merry christmas I might follow a bit older calendar , but i'm not going to turn down a second feast

She does confront them though. She meets with them and persuades them to take her side. If you don't finish her personal quest she basically turns into a doormat, but soft or hard she gets results. Whether they last or not is a matter of 'wait and see'.

[Basement Cat]

Oh yes...... the Sera hate thread has many posts like this.

Or that she's a heartless biotch and other gems. Gotta love these kind of posts.

 

It's obvious that hate can cloud many of the character's good things and focus only on the bad things, thus use some dose of hyberbole too to make it even more dramatic.

She's not heartless by any means. She's a bit book dumb (which makes me wonder how Lady Emmald raised her exactly...), but she's good at reading people. Reading her journal (worst friend ever!) shows how head over heals she gets for the Quizzy. 

[WildOrchid]

I was so mean to Leliana. When she plays the 'ideals' card, I picked 'killing him is a waste' and when she complained I picked 'find another way' which leads to the line 'I expected better from the Inquisition's spymaster'. Ooh, that glare she gave me. That's right, girl, rise to the challenge!

 

My Inquisitor is the 'tough love' type.

 

Your quizzy is awesome.

Gotta try that one, next pt.

[CrimsonN7]

Of course they use hyperbole. It's emotion based. I don't care if they don't like her character, the thing that drives me nuts is the people who say she's badly written. Or when they say that about any character to justify their hate.

 

If she's so badly written as many suggest why they so mad though, getting this kinda reaction outta folk, people should really think before they post I swear.

 

Also seen the odd comment about her accent being bad/off even though Robyn is from Derbyshire but um yeah whatever, logic.

[Roamingmachine]

She does confront them though. She meets with them and persuades them to take her side. If you don't finish her personal quest she basically turns into a doormat, but soft or hard she gets results. Whether they last or not is a matter of 'wait and see'.

Or they might convince her that she has convined them and sabotage her efforts from the inside. Dead enemies are so much simpler. Then again im a hard bastard who has a rather cynical view on people and their trustworthiness so my views can be slightly colored

[Artemis Leonhart]

To be fair, it does make a bit more sense to bring a traitor in for questioning rather than just killing them outright. Which is basically what that option ends up doing.

 

 

 

Just one of his random tavern comments, if I recall. I've only gotten it once.

Ah, that might explain why I don't recall ever hearing that comment from him: I was unlucky and didn't get it. Thanks for the answer.

[veeia]

I am not too bothered by Sera hate here. Most of the people posting in those threads wouldn't critically analyze their way out of a paper bag if they were trapped in it, they'd just scream about the paper being chafing and not badass enough.

It's the criticism from places like tumblr that's harder for me to deal with, because a lot of Sera critical people there have very valid points, but the double standards they have in that with many male characters they, they are like "well problematic but I love them!! I'll save them!!!" to "fck her I won't even talk about her."

It probably bothers me more because I agree with so many of their points but them I'm like "but also my bb that I love"???

[CrimsonN7]

Or they might convince her that she has convined them and sabotage her efforts from the inside. Dead enemies are so much simpler. Then again im a hard bastard who has a rather cynical view on people and their trustworthiness so my views can be slightly colored

 

Like minded we are, sometimes you gotta remove some weeds and I don't mind letting her get her hands dirty.

[CrimsonN7]

*snip*

 

 

Jer pls

 

Happy Xmas 2 u btw.

[Basement Cat]

I am not too bothered by Sera hate here. Most of the people posting in those threads wouldn't critically analyze their way out of a paper bag if they were trapped in it, they'd just scream about the paper being chafing and not badass enough.

It's the criticism from places like tumblr that's harder for me to deal with, because a lot of Sera critical people there have very valid points, but the double standards they have in that with many male characters they, they are like "well problematic but I love them!! I'll save them!!!" to "fck her I won't even talk about her."

It probably bothers me more because I agree with so many of their points but them I'm like "but also my bb that I love"???

Flaws make characters interesting. Sera's particular flaws (short shortsightedness, lack of respect for views different than hers, inability to empathize with people from different backgrounds, etc.) can really chafe.

 

So can Vivienne's arrogance and aloofness, Blackwall's moping, etc. Everyone has a 'no dice' threshold and some flaws are just unacceptable to them. That's ok.

 

Interesting thing about Blackwall: his focus is inward.

 

Spoiler

He always brings it back to him. Instead of atoning for his mistakes as himself, he takes on a respectable persona, not thinking about how that would affect people who knew the real Blackwall. If romanced, he goes AWOL because he feels unworthy. He doesn't stop to consider how that affects his lover. He doesn't give them a chance to decide for themselves. Later he takes responsibility for his actions and when we judge him, we essentially decide if he continues the lie or if he tries to redeem himself as himself. He lacks agency, if you will. His actions are always influenced by other people (the guy he got orders from, the real Blackwall, the Inquisitor, etc.) The one time he does take initiative is when he turns himself in, but that's more him giving up at this point.

 

Whereas Sera's focus is outward.

 

Spoiler

She doesn't introspect much. She always reacts to her surroundings and the here and now. Some dude is making trouble for the Inquisition? Lead the Herald to him and kill the guy. As opposed to letting the Inquisition know about him and allowing them to make a plan. Nobles making trouble in Vershiel? Send trouble of your own, not thinking of the consequences. Friend gets shot? Beat the man responsible to death. Bad dream about lover dying? Run away instead of confronting it and talking with her lover. She's a very reactive type. She almost never accepts blame either, as opposed to Blackwall who takes the blame for everything under the sun.

 

 

Enough rambling for now.

[CrimsonN7]

It's the criticism from places like tumblr that's harder for me to deal with, because a lot of Sera critical people there have very valid points, but the double standards they have in that with many male characters they, they are like "well problematic but I love them!! I'll save them!!!" to "fck her I won't even talk about her."

It probably bothers me more because I agree with so many of their points but them I'm like "but also my bb that I love"???

 

Now I'm even more curious, who are these male characters they can look past their faults but not hers? Sera has many can't deny but she also has plenty of qualities I like, the good outweigh the bad, had to do a 2nd playthrough to understand where she's coming from better though. Glad I did in hindsight, she's more complex than people like to admit.

[veeia]

I love how Blackwall is a wood worker/carver. It's so perfect for his character. I wrote a little drabble in his thread about it, but basically I see it as serving several functions. One, it's obviously something constructive he can do instead of sitting around brooding...the fact that he's making a children's toy for the kids is especially meaningful there. Then there is also the carving aspect. I carve, and woodworking is a very tricky discipline. You can't uncut wood...every cut is permanent. As Blackwall is trying to make himself a better man, he is trying to make a blemish free creation. I am sure that thought of "don't mess up, you can never fix it" is running through his head, which is very thematically appropriate. The completion of it ties into his redemption. It's notable that he doesn't finish it until he admits who he was and is forgiven. If he's low approval, instead of doing that, he's just angrily chopping wood: no purpose, no focus, no creation.

Sera is busy in her room, rearranging things and journaling and trying to find ways to make her home seem real and establish connections with people. She makes her space cluttered and personal and it's not about the objects, but a firm grounding of her existence. I'm here, I'm welcome, but you can tell she's still anxious, because she's always working on it.

[Basement Cat]

Now I'm even more curious, who are these male characters they can look past their faults but not hers? Sera has many can't deny but she also has plenty of qualities I like, the good outweigh the bad, had to do a 2nd playthrough to understand where she's coming from better though. Glad I did in hindsight, she's more complex than people like to admit.

I think that's true for all the characters in this game. And it's true in real life too. How much do we truly know people? It's pretty rare that a person is completely without depth. People who are usually fall under the label sociopath, fanatic, monomaniac, etc. Erimond is a good example. Even Cole says so.

 

Normal people have qualities, flaws, etc. Again, there are some flaws that are completely unacceptable for some and that's ok. The funny thing is that we tend to be least tolerant of flaws we ourselves have. There's a French proverb for that: On voit mieux la paille dans l'oeil de son voisin que la poutre dans le sien. It's easier to see the straw in your neighbor's eye than the beam in your own.

[veeia]

Now I'm even more curious, who are these male characters they can look past their faults but not hers? Sera has many can't deny but she also has plenty of qualities I like, the good outweigh the bad, had to do a 2nd playthrough to understand where she's coming from better though. Glad I did in hindsight, she's more complex than people like to admit.

Dorian is a good example. He straight up has slave apologetics, but the response I've seen is UGH GAIDER, I'm gonna ignore that because he's my baby, not "this is a flaw and I can't accept him for it."

Alistair too. He calls Morrigan a b*tch, just like Sera does to Viv, but with him it's not an unacceptable flaw that makes him irredeemable.

[Basement Cat]

Dorian is a good example. He straight up has slave apologetics, but the response I've seen is UGH GAIDER, I'm gonna ignore that because he's my baby, not "this is a flaw and I can't accept him for it.

Alistair too. He calls Morrigan a b*tch, just like Sera does to Viv, but with him it's not an unacceptable flaw that makes him irredeemable.

Dorian is a very interesting case. He means well, but his upbringing leaves him with quite a few blind spots. Sera calls him out on it too. He says not all elves are slaves in Tevinter and she counters by asking him if he ever spoke with an elf who wasn't a slave. He has to admit that no, he hasn't. But he's glad to have done so now (talking with Sera that is).

 

He tries to justify it by comparing living in a slum and the elves not having a choice there either. It's not a bad point, but I wish we could have used 'How does it feel when someone forces you to be what they want instead of letting you be what you want?' I think that would have given him pause. Sure it's a low blow, but hey the truth hurts. Just because it's not better in Orlais and Ferelden doesn't mean it's good in Tevinter.

 

It's funny that Alistair and Morrigan have a similar dynamic to Sera and Vivienne, only reversed. Alistair is the 'civilized' to Morrigan's 'savage' while Sera is the 'savage' to Vivienne's civilized. The 'savage' is always wrong, you'll notice. Of course Alistair and Vivienne also have their haters, but it's rarely because of their behavior towards other characters. It's usually because of their behavior towards the PC.

[AddieTheElf]

sighs dreamily, love when this thread gets all analytical, Can read stuff like that for hours. and sometimes contribute, when I'm feeling brave enough.

[veeia]

Yes, I love that aspect of Dorian. It's repulsive, but he's such an affable character and has such good intentions, that it's clear its a product of his upbringing, and examining it too closely sort of makes his Tevinter redemption thing even more painful, but he does because he's not a rigid, must be right guy. He's resistant and defensive and biased, but he comes around and listens to people. Dorian. 

[bayosera]

Now I'm even more curious, who are these male characters they can look past their faults but not hers? Sera has many can't deny but she also has plenty of qualities I like, the good outweigh the bad, had to do a 2nd playthrough to understand where she's coming from better though. Glad I did in hindsight, she's more complex than people like to admit.

Long post but it explains some of their faults http://shouldbewriti...a-but-like-male