100552 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

I don't really see that at all with Viv, she's pretty much like Morrigan and Miranda is that aspect

neither did i but that the arguement and complaints on her never said i agreed with it

[WildOrchid]

Last line is sad though.

It is. :/

[Basement Cat]

Would you mind sharing? I'm curious

There is an easily missed bit of messenger tag between the three advisors. Josephine organizes casual meetings for them to 'connect as colleagues and friends' in order not to 'lose sight of shared goals in the fog of petty differences'. So far, it's a great idea and a good initiative. Here's the rub: it's a tea party. Tea parties usually take place in the afternoon or early evening and the food is usually little sandwiches and pastries.

 

Why is that a problem? Two things: the advisors are busy. Leliana has to coordinate her extensive spy network and Cullen has to train his soldiers and keep them in line. Josephine has to deal with nobles and such, but since it's her idea we can assume she is willing to make time for it. When both Leliana and Cullen decline at one point, she resorts to sending a guilt trip via messenger to Leliana. (granted it's hilarious, but...)

 

My main problem here is because of Cullen. Cullen is a commoner, a soldier and from Ferelden. We find out through messenger tag (again), that Josephine doesn't really 'get' him. Josephine was schooled in Orlais and Leliana is culturally Orlesian. A tea party would be fine with both of them, but Cullen? He thinks it's silly. 

 

I think Josephine shows a lack of consideration for Cullen's sensibilities, or in other words she is strong arming him into 'connecting' in a context he is clearly uncomfortable with. So there is a failure to connect from the get go. From Cullen's perspective, a tea party is a silly entertainment for bored Orlesian nobles and a waste of his time. Especially since it's probably at an inconvenient time of the day too.

 

She guilt trips Leliana because she can. So she is sort of bullying both of them into doing what she wants. That's not good diplomacy or a nice way to treat people, defeating the objective of her 'interludes'.

 

I think she should arrange for them to have dinner together instead. They need to eat to function properly, so she can play the concern angle, aka 'be reasonable'. Also, dinner would likely include alcohol of some kind, be it beer or wine, which would relax the atmosphere. Soldier Cullen is also less likely to turn his nose up at a good square meal after a hard day's work. Same thing with Leliana.

 

Essentially, Josephine is used to handling capricious and demanding tempers with fancy tastes. She needs to learn to deal with workaholics with more humble tastes.  

[CrimsonN7]

Terrible writing, huh?

 

It always makes me so angry when I read and hear that stuff about family not accepting, though... I have no kids but if I did their sexuality would be pretty much the least of my concerns. I'd be much more worried that they found a relationship that made them happy.

 

If only others thought like this too life would be so much easier but alas the world is still horribly sh*tty.

http://dgaider.tumbl...write-a-lesbian

Ugh

 

I'm not even gonna touch that one.

[veeia]

Oh for me it's definitely not that she's a steretype or a diva, fwiw. Just like...yerk, it's complicated. I probablys shouldn't have brought it up, I just felt like I should come clean that I can understand the "person from group a writing group b" discomfort, because while I do think people can and SHOULD write other experiences than their own, it's their responsibility to also be pretty aware of what the history of representation of such things is, and I'm not sure it shows with Viv? Still love her though. 

[Dgyre]

There is an easily missed bit of messenger tag between the three advisors. Josephine organizes casual meetings for them to 'connect as colleagues and friends' in order not to 'lose sight of shared goals in the fog of petty differences'. So far, it's a great idea and a good initiative. Here's the rub: it's a tea party. Tea parties usually take place in the afternoon or early evening and the food is usually little sandwiches and pastries.

 

Why is that a problem? .....Essentially, Josephine is used to handling capricious and demanding tempers with fancy tastes. She needs to learn to deal with workaholics with more humble tastes.

 

No I have not experienced that yet, even though I did romance her first time through.  I think she would feel terrible if you pointed that out to her, but I can definitely see what you are saying, and how dealing with the nobles all the time would make her, perhaps unintentionally, inconsiderate of Cullen's position.

 

Looking forward to seeing this though! Would be humorous to watch

 

 

My third play through is going to be my completionist playthrough, so I havent seen everything yet

[Basement Cat]

No I have not experienced that yet, even though I did romance her first time through.  I think she would feel terrible if you pointed that out to her, but I can definitely see what you are saying, and how dealing with the nobles all the time would make her, perhaps unintentionally, inconsiderate of Cullen's position.

 

Looking forward to seeing this though! Would be humorous to watch

 

 

My third play through is going to be my completionist playthrough, so I havent seen everything yet

Oh she would. An experienced diplomat being accused of failing at diplomacy? Oooh! She is nice though and would be absolutely mortified to be accused of bullying her dear friend a respected colleague.

 

You can hear the whole thing in this video. It starts at around 2:08

 

[YourFunnyUncle]

I understand that Vivienne came from a disadvantaged position, but in Thedas terms it had nothing to do with her skin colour. If you'd described her character to me without mentioning that she was black, I'm pretty sure that I'd've been picturing someone like Meryl Streep in "The Devil Wears Prada" (a scheming white socialite) which means that to me she seemed to be subverting stereoptyes of black women, not reinforcing them.

 

I don't think that you're wrong to bring it up though, veeia. As a white British man I'm obviously not as attuned to these things as I might be so it's interesting to read other points of view.

[WildOrchid]

http://dgaider.tumbl...write-a-lesbian

Ugh

Jesus on a pogostick.

So in nutshell, lesbians shouldn't be flawed, they should be perfect!11

Ugh. A+ Gaider response here. I hate it when some lesbians speak for all lesbians like calm down, nobody made you a lesbian president.

I'd choose flawed, complicated characters over boring, stable ones, anytime. Gimme more of that.

[SardaukarElite]

Aren't a lot lesbians in mainstream media written by men, and some of them are okay? I mean we don't always screw up. Er, right?

 

My main problem here is because of Cullen. Cullen is a commoner, a soldier and from Ferelden. We find out through messenger tag (again), that Josephine doesn't really 'get' him. Josephine was schooled in Orlais and Leliana is culturally Orlesian. A tea party would be fine with both of them, but Cullen? He thinks it's silly. 

 

That's a good point. I can see Jo backing people into social awkward corners because it's the done thing.

 

Indeed. Sadly, I know it all too well.

 

I can only imagine how horrible that is.

[veeia]

I understand that Vivienne came from a disadvantaged position, but in Thedas terms it had nothing to do with her skin colour. If you'd described her character to me without mentioning that she was black, I'm pretty sure that I'd've been picturing someone like Meryl Streep in "The Devil Wears Prada" (a scheming white socialite) which means that to me she seemed to be subverting stereoptyes of black women, not reinforcing them.

 

I don't think that you're wrong to bring it up though, veeia. As a white British man I'm obviously not as attuned to these things as I might be so it's interesting to read other points of view.

 

Well it has nothing to do with Theodosian politics. Supposedly there is no overt colorism in Thedas anyway, yes. 

 

Take Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada: yes, she's like Viv. But she also gets more of a human touch, wouldn't you say? She's ambitious and she's scheming and hard, but she's also vulnerable and human. Viv doesn't get to show that side as much... she's just hard...and . I don't know if this makes sense, and I feel hesitant being the mouthpiece for it because I am white as well, but I come from an interracial family and my community is a very diverse group of people who share their perspective about things with me, both things for which I am very grateful because it broadens my perspective. Black women and their experiences are incredibly important to me, but it certainly doesn't make me an appropriate person to be leading the conversation, if that makes sense. 

 

I'll look for some posts that some of my friends have made on this subject and link them here later if y'all are still interested.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

*long post*

 

Essentially, Josephine is used to handling capricious and demanding tempers with fancy tastes. She needs to learn to deal with workaholics with more humble tastes.

 

You, my friend, have played this game for way too long if your thinking this deeply about it. lol

 

That said, its these small insights into the characters that make them more fleshed out and feel more real. Your not the only one enjoying all the small details they've added to the game.

[SardaukarElite]

Take Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada: yes, she's like Viv. But she also gets more of a human touch, wouldn't you say? She's ambitious and she's scheming and hard, but she's also vulnerable and human. Viv doesn't get to show that side as much... she's just hard...and .

 

I feel that compared to the others Viv and Varric had very little character development. Though Varric had the advantage of a whole other game in his story.

 

There's also the simple problem of under-representation where when you don't have enough characters of a group you can't possibly balance the group.

[AresKeith]

More about Sera from DG

http://dgaider.tumbl...with-sera#notes

[CrimsonN7]

I hate it when some lesbians speak for all lesbians like calm down, nobody made you a lesbian president.
 

 

Oh it's not so bad could be worse, like a lesbian dictator. At least we can get a vote here.

[lady_v23]

http://forum.bioware...the-inquisitor/

 

Last posts say that Sera hooks up with Dagna if not romanced.

If true, you go gurl!

 

omg that's so awesome!

[Fiery Phoenix]

http://forum.bioware...the-inquisitor/
 
Last posts say that Sera hooks up with Dagna if not romanced.
If true, you go gurl!

Super rad if true!

More about Sera from DG

http://dgaider.tumbl...with-sera#notes

David said it best:
 
By that token, I suppose I should not have written Cassandra? And Sheryl should not have written Blackwall? Or Mary written Varric?
You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m entitled to mine: I think Luke did an excellent job with Sera, and I’m certain the team feels the same way. We were aware before the game went out that she’d be very divisive, but I’d suggest that’s the mark of a strong character and not a weak one, and I’ll stand by that.
 
This is what I've been saying since all this started.

[Dgyre]

Yes!!! Nice comment by DG on unlikable people.

 

crass unlikable people exist in the real world, and some of them are still, somehow, worthwhile people who could contribute to major events...so such people should exist in games, Plus its subjective anyones.

 

I detest Sera, but she absolutely should be in the game, and provides a good variety for DA companions

[veeia]

I wouldn't say it's like, OH THEY'RE TOGETHER, but...I'm for it if you want to read it there.

 

Bah, imgur is not working for me, I have a screenshot of it. But it says

 

-FINALLY SOMEONE FUN! i'LL CALL HER WIDDLE!

 

(A drawing of Sera standing back to back with Dagna. Their weapons seem improbable. And awesome)

[lady_v23]

I wouldn't say it's like, OH THEY'RE TOGETHER, but...I'm for it if you want to read it there.

 

Bah, imgur is not working for me, I have a screenshot of it. But it says

 

-FINALLY SOMEONE FUN! i'LL CALL HER WIDDLE!

 

(A drawing of Sera standing back to back with Dagna. Their weapons seem improbable. And awesome)

 

.....................................

 

I was going to post my sorrows on Sera getting it on with Hardin... when my mind did a rewind. I was confusing Scout Hardin with Dagna all of this time! lmao!!

 

 

 

 

 

,, *cough*

 

but yeah, still very happy for her

[raging_monkey]

Some people just can't stand interpersonal difficulty when it comes to these games. Any character that gives lip or doesn't kiss their ass is "evil" or racist or something equally sinister. Regardless of that character's overall MO or disposition. Once they disregard the player's sense of power and authority, out they go.

sad innit

[CrimsonN7]

I wouldn't say it's like, OH THEY'RE TOGETHER, but...I'm for it if you want to read it there.

 

Bah, imgur is not working for me, I have a screenshot of it. But it says

 

-FINALLY SOMEONE FUN! i'LL CALL HER WIDDLE!

 

(A drawing of Sera standing back to back with Dagna. Their weapons seem improbable. And awesome)

 

I'll have to find this for myself now seeing as I'm not romancing her in this run miss it more than I thought I would .

 

Dagna is awesome, pity we couldn't interact with her more though, same goes for Harding but those flirts were fun.

[Dgyre]

I haven't done a Keep with her not yet, but does anyone know, if you use a Keep where Dagna was NOT helped to go to the Circle, is she still in DA:I? Or is it like Alistair and the Wardens?

[veeia]

Here's the pic:

 

 

I went from "awww, cute friends!!" to intense headcanons about them as a couple so. Uh, I'm for it.