100552 réponses à ce sujet

[Dgyre]

It's not "fault". Some people can't be with some other kinds of people. That's just the way it is.

For example, a friend of mine was in a relationship with a guy who was very invested in conspiracy theories. They had fights about it; sure, they had fights about other things, but I'd say something like half of my conversations with her about him involved a comment about how it'd be nice if he wasn't so ridiculous about this stuff. Eventually, she couldn't deal with it and they broke up.

Or how about an even more common example, fights about religion in general? Sure, there are plenty of people who can make interfaith or atheist-theist relationships work. I've done it myself. But there are loads of other people who can't, because their religion is so fundamental to their worldview that they can't contemplate connecting with somebody who doesn't share it, much less spending lives together. Marriages have broken up over the children's religious upbringing.

I don't see this as a fault thing; it's just a conflict of two individual things that, while perfectly reasonable on their own, can't work together.

 

I agree with your point here in general, but when one party says, your beliefs are stupid and you are an idiot, and you have to change or I'm gone...

 

thats being intolerant, thats bad behavior.  I'm not saying there aren't reasons or it, or that the Inquisitor isn't at fault too.

[Duelist]

LOL, as if roleplaying games have ever been mainstream. Nice try though.

Yeah, well...

[YourFunnyUncle]

It's not "fault". Some people can't be with some other kinds of people. That's just the way it is.

For example, a friend of mine was in a relationship with a guy who was very invested in conspiracy theories. They had fights about it; sure, they had fights about other things, but I'd say something like half of my conversations with her about him involved a comment about how it'd be nice if he wasn't so ridiculous about this stuff. Eventually, she couldn't deal with it and they broke up.

Or how about an even more common example, fights about religion in general? Sure, there are plenty of people who can make interfaith or atheist-theist relationships work. I've done it myself. But there are loads of other people who can't, because their religion is so fundamental to their worldview that they can't contemplate connecting with somebody who doesn't share it, much less spending lives together. Marriages have broken up over the children's religious upbringing.

I don't see this as a fault thing; it's just a conflict of two individual things that, while perfectly reasonable on their own, can't work together.

This is all fair enough and true, but the problem is still Sera's, not the Dalish elf's. If she thinks that an interfaith relationship is too much, then that's one thing, but that's not what Bowie said. I was arguing against the statement: "if the Inquisitor insists that belief in the Dalish gods is correct that means she's asking Sera to believe that a faith which is mutually contradictory to hers."

[YourFunnyUncle]

I should add that yeah... "Fault" is perhaps too strong a word. And perhaps I was arguing a little too strongly the opposite way. It's just that the statement that Bowie made doesn't make logical sense to me. Believing one thing yourself does not necessarily imply that you wish to force your partner to believe it.

[Basement Cat]

Sorry to change topics so abruptly, but this song is too darn addictive! I must share it!

 

[raging_monkey]

Sorry to change topics so abruptly, but this song is too darn addictive! I must share it! https://www.youtube....h?v=5BqF5txH0KE

legit

[YourFunnyUncle]

Sorry to change topics so abruptly, but this song is too darn addictive! I must share it!

 

*snip*

Well that made me smile. Let me guess: Far Cry 4 soundtrack?

[AWTEW]

The Solas thread shall surpass you soon.

p.s Sera is awsome.

[Basement Cat]

Well that made me smile. Let me guess: Far Cry 4 soundtrack?

Yes! I'm having so much fun with that game!

[Aimi]

I agree with your point here in general, but when one party says, your beliefs are stupid and you are an idiot, and you have to change or I'm gone...
 
thats being intolerant, thats bad behavior.  I'm not saying there aren't reasons or it, or that the Inquisitor isn't at fault too.

 
Again, think of the conspiracy theory example. Was my friend being intolerant?

Actually, forget "intolerant". It's not a helpful word at this point. Either Sera wasn't being intolerant in a meaningful way, or she was being intolerant in a way that is perfectly normal and acceptable.
 

This is all fair enough and true, but the problem is still Sera's, not the Dalish elf's. If she thinks that an interfaith relationship is too much, then that's one thing, but that's not what Bowie said. I was arguing against the statement: "if the Inquisitor insists that belief in the Dalish gods is correct that means she's asking Sera to believe that a faith which is mutually contradictory to hers."

I think you could make the argument that, given Sera's views on truth, that's exactly what the Inquisitor is asking her to do. At the very least, it's easy to see why she would react so forcefully to it. I'm not interested in making that argument myself, though, because I think it's an uninteresting and unanswerable side issue compared to all the people whining about how their waifu won't accept their character's religion.

And I still don't think that Sera's unwillingness to continue a relationship with a Dalish Inquisitor is a "problem", any more than any strong relationship preference is a "problem".

[YourFunnyUncle]

The Solas thread shall surpass you soon.

p.s Sera is awsome.

Once his true nature was revealed, that's no surprise. And yes she is.

[YourFunnyUncle]

And I still don't think that Sera's unwillingness to continue a relationship with a Dalish Inquisitor is a "problem", any more than any strong relationship preference is a "problem".

It's a problem for the continuation of the relationship, and it comes from her side. That's my only real point.

 

I don't think it's bad writing, out of character or anything like that.

[Dgyre]

 
Again, think of the conspiracy theory example. Was my friend being intolerant?

Actually, forget "intolerant". It's not a helpful word at this point. Either Sera wasn't being intolerant in a meaningful way, or she was being intolerant in a way that is perfectly normal and acceptable.
 

I think you could make the argument that, given Sera's views on truth, that's exactly what the Inquisitor is asking her to do. At the very least, it's easy to see why she would react so forcefully to it. I'm not interested in making that argument myself, though, because I think it's an uninteresting and unanswerable side issue compared to all the people whining about how their waifu won't accept their character's religion.

And I still don't think that Sera's unwillingness to continue a relationship with a Dalish Inquisitor is a "problem", any more than any strong relationship preference is a "problem".

 

Its not her unwillingness to continue the relationship that is the problem,she could have said "you know, I really want someone who shares my faith, thats important to me, so I respect that you have your faith, and I think we need to part ways."  thats perfectly acceptable

 

Instead, she says you're an idiot, and that you HAVE to change your views...or else.  And then to defend that by saying that the Inquisitor, by simply not changing her own beliefs, is telling Sera she has to change hers...its the opposite.

 

that is what makes it intolerant.

 

Did your friend go to the other person and say "what you believe is stupid and you are an idiot"  or tell them that they had no right to believe that?  If they did, then yes, they were being intolerant.

 

Its a big difference to say "I can't stay with you because of your beliefs" and "your beliefs are wrong and you have to change or I'm leaving"

[Dgyre]

It's a problem for the continuation of the relationship, and it comes from her side. That's my only real point.

 

I don't think it's bad writing, out of character or anything like that.

 

I think its completely in character, and makes sense when you dig into Sera's motivations and mindset.  

[Aimi]

So your problem is her wording?

I don't know if you noticed, but Sera doesn't exactly tiptoe around her feelings.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I think it would be nice if an "I'm happy for you to have your faith, if you let me have mine" dialogue option existed. Then Sera could say that no, she just couldn't accept that, and that would be that. The fact that you don't have that choice does make the confrontation feel a little contrived. There's no real option to even attempt to be diplomatic.

[LobselVith8]

I not sure how anyone can excuse any Dalish for continuing to be faithful after all we learn in this game. Not to those elven frauds. Nope.

 

Because learning that the Creators were real isn't a sufficient reason for disbelief?

[Serza]

The Solas thread shall surpass you soon.

p.s Sera is awsome.

 

So, Baldie's buddies are finally catching back up? I swear, I thought they never would after we overtook them by being all sunshines and bunnies.

[Dgyre]

So your problem is her wording?

I don't know if you noticed, but Sera doesn't exactly tiptoe around her feelings.

 

Its deeper than wording, one recognizes and respects the right of the other person to have that belief, you just wont' be with them.  The other condemns them for having the belief.

 

Its completely in character for Sera.  Its how you would expect her to act.  But for some to have claimed its acceptable behavior for Sera to do it, but the Dalish Inquisitor is the one causing the problem, I don't agree.  To say its the Inquisitor causing the break, the Inquisitor being intolerant, isn't true.  Sera is being intolerant, true to her character as she is not really tolerant of anything she deems bad the entire game.

 

Its poor behavior, but it fits Sera's character.  All of the companions are flawed, which is what makes them good characters.  I have no problem that Sera does this, but I don't agree that its acceptable behavior, and especially not that it is the Inquisitor who is the problem.

[Dgyre]

Solas thread is still several hundred behind, but it is growing fast.  I have a hard time keeping up with both threads.

[WildOrchid]

Sera is being intolerant, true to her character as she is not really tolerant of anything she deems bad the entire game.

 

Do you understand though why is Sera acting like this? She's afraid. As some here have said, she's afraid that the "creators" might be true and Andraste never existed, she's scared of this possibility, hence why there's an option to lie to her (sounds like a lie option to me, the 3th one). She wants the dalish inquisitor to reassure her that it's not true.

 

Sera thinks there's only one throne for one god and that's the maker, not many thrones. That's her belief, and i'm sure there are people who think her logic is ridiculous but understandable for Sera to think like this, purely out of fear mostly. She grew up with andrastian beliefs after all. She's no different from some rl religious people who believe only christian god is the true god.

 

 

Harsh, I know, but look it from her POV. Too much happened for her already and the Mythal temple was the last straw for her. She just couldn't take anymore of things she doesn't understand.

 

I'm with the people here who said there should've been a 4th option, a middle one. Something, i don't know tbh.

[Dgyre]

Do you understand though why is Sera acting like this? She's afraid. As some here have said, she's afraid that the "creators" might be true and Andraste never existed, she's scared of this possibility, hence why there's an option to lie to her. She wants the dalish inquisitor to reassure her that it's not true.

 

Sera thinks there's only one throne for one god and that's the maker, not many thrones. That's her belief, and i'm sure there are people who think her logic is ridiculous but understandable for Sera to think like this, purely out of fear mostly. She grew up with andrastian beliefs after all. She's no different from some rl religious people who believe only christian god is the true god.

 

 

Harsh, I know, but look it from her POV. Too much happened for her already and the Mythal temple was the last straw for her. She just couldn't take anymore of things she doesn't understand.

 

I'm with the people here who said there should've been a 4th option, a middle one. Something, i don't know tbh.

 

I do understand why.  It fits with her. I think its very true to her character and makes sense from her viewpoint. Its actually a very important moment, a very revealing moment for her character.  She is terrified, and that fear is driving the entire conversation.  

 

I understand it.  Doesn't make it less intolerant.  Another, middle ground option would have been nice sure, but am not sure it would have a different reaction from Sera.  Especially when terrified, it has to be A or B with her.

 

Sera is not supposed to be a tolerant person.  Its not part of her character, but thats also what makes her character interesting and different to some people.  She believes what she believes and she sticks to her guns, her convictions, and sticking it to the Big people because the little people get hurt.

[WildOrchid]

I do understand why.  It fits with her. I think its very true to her character and makes sense from her viewpoint. Its actually a very important moment, a very revealing moment for her character.  She is terrified, and that fear is driving the entire conversation.  

 

I understand it.  Doesn't make it less intolerant.  Another, middle ground option would have been nice sure, but am not sure it would have a different reaction from Sera.  Especially when terrified, it has to be A or B with her.

 

Sera is not supposed to be a tolerant person.  Its not part of her character, but thats also what makes her character interesting and different to some people.  She believes what she believes and she sticks to her guns, her convictions, and sticking it to the Big people because the little people get hurt.

 

Actually she can tolerate some things. For example, she can tolerate a mage inquisitor. She learned to tolerate Cole. She managed to tolerate the fade pretty well (well it needed some breakdown first ).

 

It's elven religion the only thing she can't tolerate i think. Comes from a deep wound, it would seem.

[jlb524]

That's still more accepting than the Dalish religion is of any non-elves. We have canonical examples of elves and dwarves being Andrastian, but none that I have been able to find of any non-elf believers in the Dalish gods.

 

It might be more accepting, sure.  But it won't look that way to a Dalish elf.  The only thing I'm saying is that Dalish elf religious beliefs are threatening to Sera but it may go the other way as well.

 

 

That's because the "I'm not sure" option is still trying to push her toward accepting that a faith that has no room for her and which, if true, means hers is false: "There’s so much history there. What if some of it IS true?"

 

But a qunari, dwarf, or human saying that exact same thing gets a different response so there's more to it.

 

I just replayed that scene with my second elf character, and noticed a few things.  First, with my human, Sera starts off the conversation by laughing at the Dalish for being wrong.  She at least doesn't do that if you are Dalish.  I guess that's one good thing to say about her, lol.

 

Second, I'm not sure the issue with Sera is so much the belief in the Creators by itself (which is why there's no issue when the Inquisitor is non-elf).  It seems to me she worries the elven Inquisitor will end up like the other "elfy elves" who care only for the past and Sera knows she will never live up to that and doesn't want to be with someone who puts a lot of themselves into it.  Sera would prefer the two of you to look towards a future instead.   There's no reason for her to worry that a qunari Tal Vashoth would become obsessed with lost elven glory, for example, but this is a concern with a Dalish elf.