100552 réponses à ce sujet

[SardaukarElite]

I cannot imagine the reaction of a person who went into DA:I on their first PT wanting to romance Solas and befriend Sera as a Dalish elf. That must have been like a punch to the face every five minutes. 

 

Oh they turn up every now and then making threads about all the illogical disapproval they're getting. I like to think it's important for their development as a person.

 

 

Anyway, I think its strange to take "sides" when it comes to Sera vs Dalish Quizzie. Neither is wrong or right, they are just coming at something from a fundamentally different perspective. The biggest problem, as others have noted, is that the scene doesn't allow Quizzie to react as naturally as Sera does. This is a consistent problem in the game, I think, where the PC's dialogue is mostly reactive to the needs of the characterization of the NPC, instead of a balance between two individuals.

Another, less controversial, example of this is when you first meet Sera and she explains her "friends" to you. You're given the option of asking her if she is offering spies, soldiers, or noble allies. This dialogue is set up for Sera to correct you, and doesn't allow for the perspective that a PC might automatically understand what she's offering.

 

This. I often find there's a problem with BioWare games of accidentally hitting a dialogue option which makes the PC say something obvious or stupid setting someone else up for the exposition dump.

 

My main problem with the Sera romance is it feels like there is very little actual control. You can ask about marriage or becoming the Divine, but neither changes anything. A Woman Who Wants For Nothing is great but operates under the assumption that your Inquisitor is cool with running around asking everyone for advice.

 

Which I think is how the other romances are, so it's not a Sera romance problem as such.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I don't recall Solas saying that all the Creators forced the elves into servitude. In fact, Flemeth tells Merrill not to kneel before her.

 

True, Solas never states that the Creators forcefully made their people into slaves, but the Creators didn't stop the nobles that worshiped them from making other members of their people into slaves. So, either the gods were completely fine with their people slaving their own kind or simply didn't care about it either way. Doesn't really paint the Creators in the best light. Then again, the Maker supposedly caused the Blights just because the actions of a seven people, so perhaps being divinity in Thedas makes you a jerk regardless of religious denomination.. 

[Dgyre]

Bowie- It wasn't an argument, it was a comment so it's not a straw man argument. It was an exaggerated comment to highlight frustration.

The inquisitor never actively dismisses seras beliefs. Inq just doesnt give up their own. Sera feeling that way or seeing it that way doesn't make it true.

I'm tired of repeating myself though, so I concede.

[Bowie Hawkins]

Bowie- It wasn't an argument, it was a comment so it's not a straw man argument. It was an exaggerated comment to highlight frustration.

The inquisitor never actively dismisses seras beliefs. 

 

It was an exaggeration of something I never said anything even slightly like, so yes, it was a strawman.

 

And if the Inquisitor insists that the Dalish religion is true, she is actively dismissing Sera's beliefs because Sera has made it clear that believing the Dalish religion means you believe that Sera's is false.

[Lady Luminous]

It was an exaggeration of something I never said anything even slightly like, so yes, it was a strawman.

 

And if the Inquisitor insists that the Dalish religion is true, she is actively dismissing Sera's beliefs because Sera has made it clear that believing the Dalish religion means you believe that Sera's is false.

 

But it doesn't leave any room for people who believe that multiple faiths can all be true or overlapping. Which I think is really tragic.

 

Just because I can believe in the Elven gods, doesn't mean that I can't think there may be a Maker as well.

[Fiery Phoenix]

And if the Inquisitor insists that the Dalish religion is true, she is actively dismissing Sera's beliefs because Sera has made it clear that believing the Dalish religion means you believe that Sera's is false.

That's just how Sera sees it. It's not necessarily a willful dismissal of her beliefs on the Inquisitor's part.

[Dgyre]

You are defending it pretty hard for never having said anything like it.

"Sera has made it clear that believing the Dalish religion means you believe that Sera's is false."

Sera is setting this conditionin your own words. Sera is making black and white. Sera is forcing the choice.

If person A says to B "I'm Christian so if you are pagan you are dismissing my belief" and person B who is pagan doesn't denounce their pagan religion, then they are dismissing As beliefs? They are in the wrong? They are the intolerant one? That's a frightening premise.

[Dgyre]

Sorry I said i was done and I kept going. I appreciate the debate and I don't want this to get negative, and I'm starting to get emotional about it because of dangerous I see this line of thinking being.

Thank you for the discussion. And i think its a good character if it creates this level of discussion.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I don't recall Solas saying that all the Creators forced the elves into servitude. In fact, Flemeth tells Merrill not to kneel before her.

 

Yeah, thats after Flemeth asks if Merrill knows who she is, implying that since Merrill doesn't know shes talking to the host of Mythal, she shouldn't bend knee. Thats only something the slaves would be expected to do.

[veeia]

For me I think I just want to feel like the game considers multiple perspectives when it allows you to react in these big, important character situations. It doesn't always have to have my exact reaction, but if it has a realistic range (and not just extremes either, a real range), then I feel good about it overall even if I have to do something slightly OOC.

I found BW's pretty satisfying there...(spoiled in case people don't want to see details of that romance)

Spoiler

his romance obv had a crisis point and I had a lot I could do. I didn't even have to chase him. I could also leave his ass in jail and not even talk to him, I could go and be supportive, I could go and yell at him about what an awful person he was, I could go and make my anger focused on the fact that he lied to me rather than his crime, I could tell him that I never loved him (and still take him back later), etc. then when I had the chance to be in a relationship with him again or end it, I could approach it in a few different ways, etc. I couldn't go and say "big deal whatever let's bang", which was tbh more of what my character would have done, but the game overall is not really supportive of that kind of morality, so it's not so much an issue there for me.

I mean part of that is the nature of his story, because it's one that's has your reaction central to it and I certainly don't think every LI should have something that dramatic happening or one where the PC has such literal control over their fate...but I liked how I could respond to that situation in a multitude of different ways that could be contradictory and human, and he reacted to my character accordingly in ways that did not make my character infallible or right (he got really mad at my Quizzie for breaking him out, for example, and he was probably right to do that, considering what she did to do it) but still felt like a real conversation. I couldn't change him or bend him to my perspective, but I could share mine. 

Then again, some people are really upset about certain aspects of that, like the lack of meaningful follow up (I agree but it pales in comparison to Sera or Solas) or how your forgiveness always included kissing him in front of everyone while he was still in chains (OMG I loved it it was so trashy, lmao, but I get that a lot)

I'm not sure what my point here is anymore, other than I really don't think there is anyway to make a situation like the Sera-Dalish one (or any dialogue) work for everyone, but it is extremely frustrating when you run into a situation where you can see how one simple PC dialogue option would make something more palatable and playable for most people because even if they end up with an outcome they don't like, they took logical steps to get there.

[Roamingmachine]

Yeah, thats after Flemeth asks if Merrill knows who she is, implying that since Merrill doesn't know shes talking to the host of Mythal, she shouldn't bend knee. Thats only something the slaves would be expected to do.

 

Your personal hatred of the Dalish is well noted. This is just you picking a fight. Oh well, I'm down for it. Everything you have said about the dalish faith has been wrong.

 

 

And on a lighter note, good morning thread.

[LightningPoodle]

 

And on a lighter note, good morning thread.

 

Morning! 

[Roamingmachine]

Morning! 

 

 

Are you ever NOT online, poodle?

[LightningPoodle]

Are you ever NOT online, poodle?

 

Only when I'm sleeping. Or is it when I'm "not" sleeping? I don't know.

 

That's true actually, I've become addicted to this forum.

[Bowie Hawkins]

But it doesn't leave any room for people who believe that multiple faiths can all be true or overlapping. Which I think is really tragic.

 

Just because I can believe in the Elven gods, doesn't mean that I can't think there may be a Maker as well.

 

One of the most fundamental tenets of the Maker is "there is but one God", so tragic or no, there isn't room for overlap. I won't argue that it isn't tragic, but tragic or not it precludes accepting the divinity of anyone other than the Maker.

 

That's just how Sera sees it. It's not necessarily a willful dismissal of her beliefs on the Inquisitor's part.

 

She tells you that only one of the two religions can be true, so if your reply is to assert that the Dalish religion is true then that is exactly what it is.

 

You are defending it pretty hard for never having said anything like it.

"Sera has made it clear that believing the Dalish religion means you believe that Sera's is false."

 

And if you had paid attention you should have noticed that the quote you chose to include is in no way, shape, or form whatsoever anything even remotely like "Sera is the paragon of Tolerance", so no. I am not defending your strawman.

[Lady Luminous]

Well... uhm... can we just go back to being our happy little thread now please ?

 

Here's some birthday puppies eating cake.

 

[LightningPoodle]

Well... uhm... can we just go back to being our happy little thread now please ?

 

Hi, Dazzle! How are you today?

[Lady Luminous]

Hi, Dazzle! How are you today?

 

Heya Light.

 

Good good! Got to a story point where I have 3 war table missions going for another 3-17 hours and not planning on doing anymore area content (the Emerald Graves makes my head hurt) and I've finished crafting... so I'm just wasting time online before hopping back in game.

 

You?

[LightningPoodle]

Heya Light.

 

Good good! Got to a story point where I have 3 war table missions going for another 3-17 hours and not planning on doing anymore area content (the Emerald Graves makes my head hurt) and I've finished crafting... so I'm just wasting time online before hopping back in game.

 

You?

 

Scared sh*tless that I've run out of time to draw up a poster for Uni.  Spent to much time procrastinating and even now, when I should be working, I'm watching The Dark Knight. 

[Lady Luminous]

Scared sh*tless that I've run out of time to draw up a poster for Uni.  Spent to much time procrastinating and even now, when I should be working, I'm watching The Dark Knight. 

 

Oh Light... You gotta get on that man. Can you work on your poster while in front of the Dark Knight? Because, obviously you can't turn it off, but still...

[Roamingmachine]

Well... uhm... can we just go back to being our happy little thread now please ?

 

Here's some birthday puppies eating cake.

 

*snip*

 

No worries, we are all family here

 

[LightningPoodle]

Oh Light... You gotta get on that man. Can you work on your poster while in front of the Dark Knight? Because, obviously you can't turn it off, but still...

 

I could but it's not even 8 o'clock; far too early for me to do anything constructive. 

[Lady Luminous]

I could but it's not even 8 o'clock; far too early for me to do anything constructive. 

 

Ain't that the truth. If you drank it, I'd suggest my solution for everything.

 

[LightningPoodle]

Ain't that the truth. If you drank it, I'd suggest my solution for everything.

 

-snip-

 

Awww, it's even got a little heart. You do love me. 

[Lady Luminous]

Awww, it's even got a little heart. You do love me. 

 

The heart is for the coffee.

 

(Remember, I'm taken, even if I do you).