100552 réponses à ce sujet

[wintery]

Okay, maybe. I'm just saying, everyone I know has named their one car one thing or another.

 

I find that "my car" works pretty well in both speech and writing.

[LightningPoodle]

Why does sexuality even have to come into that situation? Celene was playing the game. That's how sh*t got done. Doesn't matter whether a person is straight or gay. She used what was available to her. Doesn't have to come back to sexual orientation.

[LightningPoodle]

I find that "my car" works pretty well in both speech and writing.

 

I have to say that does work. 

[Sporothrix]

But then I've also never heard of the (ridiculous) idea that men can be gay but women can't really be gay, so it wouldn't occur to me so maybe thats why I missed it

 

You've never heard opinions that lesbians can be turned by the right man, that deep down they need "real sex" with men, etc.? There is no equivalent of that when it comes to gay men and it seems only extremely religious people believe anymore in those "reparative therapies" for gay men, while many "common" folks still think lesbianism is just a phase.

 

And even some gay men say such things. Like Frankie Grande from Big Brother, who said that gay men are born gay, but lesbians make a choice to become lesbians later in life.

[SardaukarElite]

I wrote that part before any comment acknowledging that there is any problem at all appeared.

 

Okay, I think you have a point.

 

Is the problem that you don't think Celene's sexuality is clear enough for that scene to not be misleading, or that you think a lesbian should never be shown as seducing a man even for an ulterior motive?

[Dgyre]

You've never heard opinions that lesbians can be turned by the right man, that deep down they need "real sex" with men, etc.? There is no equivalent of that when it comes to gay men and it seems only extremely religious people believe anymore in those "reparative therapies" for gay men, while many "common" folks still think lesbianism is just a phase.

 

And even some gay men say such things. Like Frankie Grande from Big Brother, who said that gay men are born gay, but lesbians make a choice to become lesbians later in life.

 

No, I have never heard this exclusively for women.  I have seen the equivalent that gay men aren't really gay and just need to be 'turned' back to having sex with women, and I do not feel it is the 'common' opinion that sexuality in general is just a phase.  I've even heard of allegedly 'well meaning' family members setting gay youths up on dates with women to try and 'turn them back' or get them out of that 'gay phase'.

 

are those religious camps only for men? I thought they were for anyone who was gay?  either way those are terrible.

 

Being gay or straight doesn't make you tolerant or a good person, so of course there are going to be prejudiced gay men and women just like there are straight men and women...

[Sporothrix]

Why does sexuality even have to come into that situation? Celene was playing the game. That's how sh*t got done. Doesn't matter whether a person is straight or gay. She used what was available to her. Doesn't have to come back to sexual orientation.

 

Because she's not real person but fictional character that does wha the writers want her to do, and all the cultural context and potential damage should be therefore taken into consideration by them.

[YourFunnyUncle]

CORSAIR ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLZ

 

 

 

It's almost shameful the number of times I've debated the awesomeness of the corsair. It gets such a bad rap, just 'cuz flying one could pretty much kill you. I mean geez, nothing's perfect!

Corsairs are cool, but I favour the look of a plane without the big air vent at the front around the propeller. It's a purely aesthetic thing on my part. A Spit or a Mustang just looks sleeker to my eyes. I like the shape of the folding wings on a Corsair, though.

[Dgyre]

You've never heard opinions that lesbians can be turned by the right man, that deep down they need "real sex" with men, etc.? There is no equivalent of that when it comes to gay men and it seems only extremely religious people believe anymore in those "reparative therapies" for gay men, while many "common" folks still think lesbianism is just a phase.

 

And even some gay men say such things. Like Frankie Grande from Big Brother, who said that gay men are born gay, but lesbians make a choice to become lesbians later in life.

 

to clarify though, I am not saying you do not have a point regarding that scene.  I am not sure I have a basis to make an informed analysis on that.  Certainly the fact that it bothers you in the first place means it definitely needs examining and could be an insensitive scene.

[AresKeith]

Because she's not real person but fictional character that does wha the writers want her to do, and all the cultural context and potential damage should be therefore taken into consideration by them.

All she did was trick someone working for Gaspard

[LightningPoodle]

Because she's not real person but fictional character that does wha the writers want her to do, and all the cultural context and potential damage should be therefore taken into consideration by them.

 

But it's only taken this way by people like you who see problems everywhere. 

[Dgyre]

Corsairs are cool, but I favour the look of a plane without the big air vent at the front around the propeller. It's a purely aesthetic thing on my part. A Spit or a Mustang just looks sleeker to my eyes. I like the shape of the folding wings on a Corsair, though.

 

 

I've always been partial to P-38s

 

[SardaukarElite]

But it's only taken this way by people like you who see problems everywhere. 

 

That's a cop out.

 

Our culture informs our world view. If you bring everyone up on stories about how great democracy is then most people think democracy is pretty great, if you have stories telling them lesbians don't really exist then you can do damage.

 

People can be wrong, people can be overzealous, but nothing should be beyond questioning.

 

 

It gets such a bad rap, just 'cuz flying one could pretty much kill you. I mean geez, nothing's perfect!

 

Quite a few good aircraft had fatal flaws that would kill the inexperienced, or the unlucky.

[YourFunnyUncle]

As a fan of the Pet Shop Boys who used to run a discussion board about them, I've encountered a few women who thought that they could be the one to turn Neil Tennant straight. It's certainly not something that's exclusively thought about lesbians.

 

The glaring difference, of course, it's a hell of a lot harder for a straight woman to do anything about such ideas than it is for a straight man, as Misoretu has so horribly experienced.

[wintery]

I finally got a nice screenshot of the armor I made with lazurite trim. I like the blue.

 

(I think this is the only scene in which my Cadash is actually looking down on someone.)

 

Spoiler

 

Which armor is Sera wearing here? I can't remember even finding this.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Sporothrix]

No, I have never heard this exclusively for women.  I have seen the equivalent that gay men aren't really gay and just need to be 'turned' back to having sex with women, and I do not feel it is the 'common' opinion that sexuality in general is just a phase.  I've even heard of allegedly 'well meaning' family members setting gay youths up on dates with women to try and 'turn them back' or get them out of that 'gay phase'.

 

I'm not gay man so I can't confirm it nor deny it, but I think homophobic stereotypes about gay men focus on something entirely different - on beliefs that for them, it's only about sex, and they don't know what 'real' love is.

 

It's also about how media treat it - if you're a man who's attracted to men at all then BAM!, you're 100% gay, while as a woman you could be seen kissing a girl and barely anyone would treat it seriously. For long Angel Haze's and Ireland Baldwin's relationship was being called by media as "friendship", despite all the pics and even them directly stating something entirely different.

 

This goes with erasure of male bisexuality which is also proven by the data - GLAAD annual reports show that overall, about half of all LGBT representation on TV is taken by gay men, while bisexual male characters are extremely small in number.

 

And as for "reparative therapies", I've heard that the concept of "female sexual fluidity" created by sex researcher Lisa Diamond actually helped them a lot especially in targetting women - something for what Diamond actually apologized for and said her findings have been twisted by those groups. I actually have read her research and indeed, it shows sexual preferences are solid, but romantic/emotional ones are not, and the problem is, most women tend to focus on their romantic feelings while defining their sexuality so those that did that expressed big "fluidity" in sexual identity labels.

But Diamond equates sexual orientation not with labels we give ourselves, but with sexual attraction pattern, namely "proceptivity", and it was solid in those women she studied.

[LightningPoodle]

That's a cop out.

 

Our culture informs our world view. If you bring everyone up on stories about how great democracy is then most people think democracy is pretty great, if you have stories telling them lesbians don't really exist then you can do damage.

 

People can be wrong, people can be overzealous, but nothing should be beyond questioning.

 

Nothing should be beyond questioning, I agree. Problem is, you are thinking to much into it. You have latched onto the idea that something is wrong with the portrayal of woman in a particular scene and cannot, no, will not see reason with any other explanation. The writers are not sexist, they are not homophobes, they are not anything that could be considered bigotry. They have written the scene for different reasons than the one you believe they intended.

[SardaukarElite]

Nothing should be beyond questioning, I agree. Problem is, you are thinking to much into it. You have latched onto the idea that something is wrong with the portrayal of woman in a particular scene and cannot, no, will not see reason with any other explanation. The writers are not sexist, they are not homophobes, they are not anything that could be considered bigotry. They have written the scene for different reasons than the one you believe they intended.

 

I'm not sure who is being referred to by 'you' there.

 

You're playing a denial argument though. You have a reason that excuses the scene, so anyone who can't agree with that reason isn't seeing reason. Does that seem fair to you?

 

I assume BioWare aren't actually a bunch of sexist, conservative bigots but that doesn't mean they can't make mistakes. Similarly they could have perfectly valid reasons for doing what they did, and yet in the greater context it is problematic. They've said as much themselves.

[Basement Cat]

Nothing should be beyond questioning, I agree. Problem is, you are thinking to much into it. You have latched onto the idea that something is wrong with the portrayal of woman in a particular scene and cannot, no, will not see reason with any other explanation. The writers are not sexist, they are not homophobes, they are not anything that could be considered bigotry. They have written the scene for different reasons than the one you believe they intended.

There is such a thing as unintentional bigotry, Poodle. The writers are not actively homophobic or racists, but their perspective is colored by the general culture around them and they sometimes include stuff that carries implications they hadn't considered. When that happens it is important to ask them 'hey, did you intend for this part to include this subtext? Because it kinda does.'

[wintery]

Story is never utterly separated from context and personal experience. You can't say "Let's just look at this divorced from problematic tropes of yore" because they permeate us all our lives. The question is not just "Could this happen (an empress using any and all methods available to retain power)" because we're not viewing a window into history, we're viewing a story written by people also saturated with tropes. The writing of a story/game/movie involves choices, and it's valid to question why a scene was written a particular way, especially when it pings your "omg I'm sick of seeing this misconception about me repeated endlessly in stories and never told in a way that rings true" radar.

Especially when some tropes have real world consequences, when people accept them as the way people are.

I probably didn't say any of that well. I've read stories I've written in the past and thought "How did I not see the problematic thing I was drawing on here?"  It's not necessarily an accusation of intent, but just pointing out how something might appear.

 

eta Basement Cat said kind of what I was trying to say, but with fewer words.

[WildOrchid]

I finally got a nice screenshot of the armor I made with lazurite trim. I like the blue.

 

(I think this is the only scene in which my Cadash is actually looking down on someone.)

 

Spoiler

 

Which armor is Sera wearing here? I can't remember even finding this.

 

Spoiler

 

She's wearing a warden rogue armor. *shudders*.

Hate it on Sera.

[wintery]

She's wearing a warden rogue armor. *shudders*.

Hate it on Sera.

 

It's definitely not her best look.

[Dgyre]

I'm not gay man so I can't confirm it nor deny it, but I think homophobic stereotypes about gay men focus on something entirely different - on beliefs that for them, it's only about sex, and they don't know what 'real' love is.

 

It's also about how media treat it - if you're a man who's attracted to men at all then BAM!, you're 100% gay, while as a woman you could be seen kissing a girl and barely anyone would treat it seriously. For long Angel Haze's and Ireland Baldwin's relationship was being called by media as "friendship", despite all the pics and even them directly stating something entirely different.

 

This goes with erasure of male bisexuality which is also proven by the data - GLAAD annual reports show that overall, about half of all LGBT representation on TV is taken by gay men, while bisexual male characters are extremely small in number.

 

And as for "reparative therapies", I've heard that the concept of "female sexual fluidity" created by sex researcher Lisa Diamond actually helped them a lot especially in targetting women - something for what Diamond actually apologized for and said her findings have been twisted by those groups. I actually have read her research and indeed, it shows sexual preferences are solid, but romantic/emotional ones are not, and the problem is, most women tend to focus on their romantic feelings while defining their sexuality so those that did that expressed big "fluidity" in sexual identity labels.

But Diamond equates sexual orientation not with labels we give ourselves, but with sexual attraction pattern, namely "proceptivity", and it was solid in those women she studied.

 

I don't think there is any one focus for stereotypes.  I think the media treats lesbian relationships seriously.  Look at the show on ABC FAMILY of all channels, the Fosters, with a married lesbian couple adopting and raising children and shown as good parents and role models.

 

So those camps certainly targeted both then. Either way they are not a good thing for either sex.  I think there are plenty of men who can focus on romantic feelings and women who do not.  The idea that men are physical and women are emotional has some weight from cultural norms, but especially today there are a lot of people who do not meet them both male and female, or who managed to balance them.