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Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)


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#59376
Aimi

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Same reasons they want me to know not actual history, but HISTORIANS WHO ARE MY CONTEMPORARIES in one subject.
I mean, I do NOT give a single flying F about historians. I study history because, yeah, you guessed it, HISTORY. NOT HISTORIANS.

 
What's the difference?
 

I had to take the history of historians course when I did the history major. "Historiography" was the generally given reason for it. They want you to understand the development of the discipline and the evolution of the field. It was equally frustrating and I felt much as you did when presented with it. Grin and bear it if it's your career choice.

 
If you don't know historiography, it's basically impossible to do good history.

Problem is, there's no "just the straight facts" for history. Even reporting history requires word choice, and word choice imparts perspective. The linguistic turn, a philosophical development of the last three or four decades, made it quite clear that objectivity is impossible. What you have, is a bunch of people's interpretations of data, and interpretations of other interpretations. What anything means depends on how you tell the story.

So in that context, what other historians are saying, and why they are saying it, is hugely important! It is, in fact, all there really is about history. All good academic history spends a huge amount of time on historiography; it's basically the primary function of graduate school to teach you how to do historiography and Why You Should Care.

I think that Serza's an undergraduate, which makes it kind of awesome that he has to do historiography right now. But it's also apparent that whoever is teaching him isn't doing a very good job of it, and it shows why a lot of undergraduate programs don't even bother trying to teach historiography: it's not an easy concept to wrap one's head around.
 

I'd have dropped the course and reported him to the department ombudsman (I once did write a scathing letter about a prof to the ombudsman which had the effect of achieving an apology from the prof so sometimes that avenue works). I assume this is an instructor? If it is that's pretty unprofessional.

 
Doesn't always work, depending on tenure position and whether the syllabus was approved and a whole host of other random political garbage. Academic departments are, in that way, not too dissimilar from a school cafeteria.

I once TAed for a professor in a Plato-to-NATO drive-by European history course who got a lot of basic facts wrong. He was an Americanist who apparently took a trip to Europe and took everything that the tour guides said at face value. But I couldn't really do anything about it and mostly just had to commiserate with my advisor at the bar after class.
 

They had Scythians, Germanic Tribes, and the Roman Empire at least... I imagine they had a few opportunities.
 
"Marry me."
"Mmm, okay I'll be back after lunchtime with loot."

 
It does make for a good story. Saurometai warrior-women are one of the cooler things about steppe peoples.

Unfortunately, all of those stories rely on Greco-Roman ethnography, which was basically a steaming fetid pile of crap. Greek and Roman historians, from Herodotos to Ammianvs Marcellinvs, did not get very much right about the lands beyond the frontier for a variety of reasons. Often, they didn't do the research, and relied on tall tales. They also suffered from ideological blinders, in that their worldview required that classical Mediterranean civilization be the apex of, well, "civilization", and thus they ascribed progressively more "barbarous" activities to the peoples further and further from the imperial core. Often, these traits are not borne out by archaeology, like the claim that the Fenni (purportedly inhabitants of modern Finland) were cannibals and used only bone tools because they hadn't figured out metalworking or stone.
 

Oh right. Your English is so perfect that I always forget you're on the other side of the world!

 
So, one might say that you were...Czechmated?
 

The coolest accent I heard from someone irl was a woman who grew up in Ireland and moved to Minnesota so she had a bit of the Minnesota accent blended in. It was AWESOME. I want that accent. :lol:


I grew up in Germany and spent a few summers in the US in New Orleans as a child. Imagine a German-Yat hybrid accent, and you've got me.

Unfortunately, I don't have a mic, and I'm super shy, so I can't join in all the vocaroo festivities.
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#59377
wintery

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Greek and Roman historians, from Herodotos to Ammianvs Marcellinvs, did not get very much right about the lands beyond the frontier for a variety of reasons. Often, they didn't do the research, and relied on tall tales.

 

I had a friend who was a Latin teacher, and I remember once she went on a rant about Herodotus* and history. I don't remember exactly what she said (it was a long time ago), but it wasn't pretty.

 

*among others



#59378
raging_monkey

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My voice
https://mail.google....ocal0&safe=1

#59379
Aimi

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I had a friend who was a Latin teacher, and I remember once she went on a rant about Herodotus* and history. I don't remember exactly what she said (it was a long time ago), but it wasn't pretty.
 
*among others


Yeah, Herodotos got a bad rap, not entirely undeserved. If we call him the first Western historian, the second Western historian, Thoukydides, spent most of the first part of his book talking about how crap a historian Herodotos was, and how his book would be sober history untainted by Herodotos' inclusion of myths and stupid stories and other random garbage.

Thoukydides was also a lying sh*tbag, though, because he wrote his history to exonerate himself and his political allies from blame for Athens' defeat in its war against Sparte. Which is kind of problematic, because IT TOTALLY WAS THEIR FAULT.

God, historians suck.

#59380
wintery

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I am pretty much made of 100% allergies right now, so I'm going to go take a few benadryl and see what happens. Good night.



#59381
Steelcan

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I thought my historiography class was fun :/
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#59382
The Loyal Nub

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What's the difference?
 
 
If you don't know historiography, it's basically impossible to do good history.

 

 

Thanks I know why we need Historiography doesn't mean it was my favorite thing. I work in academia. I also have a post-graduate degree and am the son of faculty. I also know reporting a prof does not always work. In my case it did.

 

*It worked because he was a visiting professor from Sandhurst who thought it would be cute to reveal that he intensely disliked the Irish during a class. When people were silent he thought he'd carry on with some jolly old Irish jokes. I managed to get an apology in person and an apology to the class.


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#59383
The Loyal Nub

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Well a bittersweet night tonight. I still got the Leliana-Robespierre after doing her quest. I did tell her not to kill the traitors so as near as I can figure it you must also not tell her that war "demands sacrifice" at Haven. Too late to change that but I'll remember it next time.

 

On the good side had the very touching scene with Sera where she tells you she loves you and has fears of your death due to bad dreams. Poor dear. It was very sweet.

 

I also discovered that the shield I crafted for Blackwall is now useless thanks to patch 3. Oh BioWare! :lol:



#59384
Steelcan

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Yeah, Herodotos got a bad rap, not entirely undeserved. If we call him the first Western historian, the second Western historian, Thoukydides, spent most of the first part of his book talking about how crap a historian Herodotos was, and how his book would be sober history untainted by Herodotos' inclusion of myths and stupid stories and other random garbage.Thoukydides was also a lying sh*tbag, though, because he wrote his history to exonerate himself and his political allies from blame for Athens' defeat in its war against Sparte. Which is kind of problematic, because IT TOTALLY WAS THEIR FAULT.God, historians suck.


I'm in a class on Alexander the Great this semester, today we spent all day talking about why Arrian is a horrid source, among others..... Fun times

#59385
raging_monkey

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Well a bittersweet night tonight. I still got the Leliana-Robespierre after doing her quest. I did tell her not to kill the traitors so as near as I can figure it you must also not tell her that war "demands sacrifice" at Haven. Too late to change that but I'll remember it next time.

On the good side had the very touching scene with Sera where she tells you she loves you and has fears of your death due to bad dreams. Poor dear. It was very sweet.

I also discovered that the shield I crafted for Blackwall is now useless thanks to patch 3. Oh BioWare! :lol:

least you get a patch last gen gets more issues everyday

#59386
Dgyre

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That was great, now I have voices to imagine when reading all of your posts!!!  Awesome!!!

 

 

*...secretly saves all of the audio files for later when I will use them to crack the voice locks and get into your super secret lairs....*



#59387
Dgyre

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lots of educated people in this thread too...



#59388
AlexiaRevan

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wowww I am glad I am leaving my house soon because as much as the idea of sharing pictures on here is like WOW NO i apparently like recording myself and my terrible voice???

 

i did an impersonation of the bad sera threads, accurate, y/y? http://vocaroo.com/i/s0DTf0G99IHt

 

(oh god turn your speakers down if you listen i made some real annoying sounds) 

That was EPIC!!! 

 

Hey Green mama! Ya should be working for the Simpsons ! i heard ralph Wiggummmm in the beginning  :lol:



#59389
AlexiaRevan

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lots of educated people in this thread too...

and funny and friendly and drunk and pranky ones...... :P 


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#59390
raging_monkey

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Yay big sis is here

#59391
AlexiaRevan

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and everyone went to bed...already LOL Talk about bad timing 



#59392
raging_monkey

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They will be back... they always come back XD

#59393
AlexiaRevan

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They will be back... they always come back XD

Tsk..now ya sounding like a Swtor player lol everyone say that line to anyone who say 'Bye X planet..See ya in hell!' and everyone spam 'Ya be back..ya be baaack!' LOL wich is true..so that make it worse  :lol: 



#59394
raging_monkey

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Tsk..now ya sounding like a Swtor player lol everyone say that line to anyone who say 'Bye X planet..See ya in hell!' and everyone spam 'Ya be back..ya be baaack!' LOL wich is true..so that make it worse  :lol:

well its a "small" game where they goin tattoine? Lol

#59395
AlexiaRevan

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well its a "small" game where they goin tattoine? Lol

funny....they do it on almost every planet  Very few planets peoples like...most of them are hated . The most hated is Hoth...and with good reasons . I mean it is soo boooring...



#59396
raging_monkey

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funny....they do it on almost every planet  Very few planets peoples like...most of them are hated . The most hated is Hoth...and with good reasons . I mean it is soo boooring...

i liked hoth only place that was nice

#59397
Cypher0020

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Sooooo..... how's the Sera romance?

 

I was gonna make either an elf mage or rogue to romance her with  :wub:



#59398
Aimi

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funny....they do it on almost every planet  Very few planets peoples like...most of them are hated . The most hated is Hoth...and with good reasons . I mean it is soo boooring...


I think the biggest problem with Hoth is that it's very large and also not very densely populated with content. It also feels more like wilderness; Corellia is just about as big as Hoth if not bigger, and its quests are just as widely spaced out, but because it's a city people seem to feel as though it's less boring.

Also, the snow is pretty...well, it's snow. Endless stretches of white nothingness don't really make for exciting fun times.

Back when I played, I thought that Voss got the most hate out of all the planets, but Hoth was certainly up there.

#59399
raging_monkey

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Sooooo..... how's the Sera romance? I was gonna make either an elf mage or rogue to romance her with  :wub:

its a ball tbh

#59400
AlexiaRevan

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After Alderaan every Planet is a bore to the Soul . Belsavis and those Eshka yurk . Hoth and the boring background music and the missions that are boring as well . And the fact you have to drove so much to get somewhere . Voss (or Moss) is boring and have maybe one area that seem good (the dark forest) . Corellia is utterly boring and very Laggy , and for a final fight.....would think they do better .