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Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)


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#64401
Guest_John Wayne_*

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Mushrooms have been an integral part of my diet since approximately forever and zucchini's pretty nice with some decent flavoring so I am ALL IN on this Dazzle rezept

I don't know if it will be easy to track down in your area, but if you like mushrooms, you need to find a Japanese place that servers mushroom soup. Preferably one that serves  it with enoki and shiitaki mushrooms in it. Also, if you really like mushrooms, most variations of Chankonabe will have a lost of mushrooms. But, you have to have a sumo wrestler make it for you.  It's a staple of the sumo diet, so they make the best.


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#64402
Dgyre

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I have an issue eating fungi.  Its irrational and ignorant and I still gag when I consume them...can't do it.  

 

can-t-do-it-o.gif



#64403
Dgyre

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Alright an update from Assassin *goes to read*



#64404
Dgyre

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I dunno, I was considering making you wait outside in the cold. :P

 

you let Lady in now..play nice!



#64405
Guest_John Wayne_*

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I have an issue eating fungi.  Its irrational and ignorant and I still gag when I consume them...can't do it.  

 

Brussel sprouts do the same thing to me. It's really sad and funny because I have eaten Natto, sweetbreads, rockey mountain oysters and all sorts of bugs. But, the smell of brussel sprouts is enough to turn my stomach. 


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#64406
Dgyre

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synopsis: Champions of the Just

okay...so Lysindra got stuck in her own head and then met Cole officially. Found a few Cunning and Dexterity perks. Saved some templars and fought an Envy demon. Apparently the leadership in the Templars lost their got damn minds after they started taking red lyrium. Lambert either killed them or had them killed. i managed to keep Ser Barris and his fellow Templars alive and then conscripted them into the Inquisition which everyone, save Sera and Solas, disapproved of. Leli seems to think Cole is alright(she's the only advisor that didn't panic) and....that's about it. Overall, i only felt urgency when trying to keep Ser Barris alive It wasn't the same as In Hushed Whispers. I'm kinda meh about it honestly. But it will make killing the Lord Seeker that much more satisfying when the time comes. that's all i got guys. :-/

 

ah I was hoping you would enjoy the head and envy demon fight more.  But remember, you get extra Leli and Dagna scenes and missions later!!!! 



#64407
wintery

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Okay, with new world state I've met Warden Alistair in Crestwood. I kind of expected him to be a bit more... I don't know, grim? He was kind of joking about things and never mentioned how the Warden died and all. Seemed a bit odd.

 

I haven't gone to Adamant yet.



#64408
raging_monkey

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Dazzle got me.... i watched hotel transelvania... too sweet and too much adam sandler help XD

#64409
Dgyre

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Okay, with new world state I've met Warden Alistair in Crestwood. I kind of expected him to be a bit more... I don't know, grim? He was kind of joking about things and never mentioned how the Warden died and all. Seemed a bit odd.

 

I haven't gone to Adamant yet.

 

its been 10 years, and I'm sure he just doesn't talk about his emotional pain with new people he  just met



#64410
wintery

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its been 10 years, and I'm sure he just doesn't talk about his emotional pain with new people he  just met

 

True. I guess he just didn't seem all that different to me, and I was looking for signs of how he might have changed.

 

Leliana's personality felt different at first, and in Haven (though she loosened up a bit when we got to know each other)... until she shocked me in the Chantry.



#64411
Dgyre

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True. I guess he just didn't seem all that different to me, and I was looking for signs of how he might have changed.

 

Leliana's personality felt different at first, and in Haven (though she loosened up a bit when we got to know each other)... until she shocked me in the Chantry.

 

yeah, you would want to see some development, change



#64412
Aimi

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Janky? How so? I really liked how they tightly controlled the time travel stuff so that it couldn't easily be used again. I liked how could only work with the breach in existence, and how it was restricted to the time since the breach opened. I liked how you went forward once and then back, and no other messing about. I didn't have any trouble understanding what was going on. I mean yeah, it's a bit weird how your companions would just be sitting in cells near you and not dead, but I can forgive that because game mechanics, and they were quite touching when you met them.


Oh, it's janky.

Problem One is the alternate Fiona, the one that shows up in Val Royeaux. It's implied that this Fiona only existed in a previous timeline, which was erased when Alexius showed up in Redcliffe and did his time magic. So why does this Fiona cease to exist, but her effects - and the Inquisition's memory of her - did not? Alexius' time-magic got him to Redcliffe two days after the destruction of the Conclave, per Clemence's comments; this would have happened before Fiona met the Herald in Val Royeaux (the Herald didn't even wake up from coming out of the Fade until three or four days after the Conclave's destruction, depending on how you interpret Adan's notes). Alternate Fiona would have to have been unhappened, just like the Dark Future was unhappened when Dorian and the Herald returned to 9:41 Redcliffe.

A week or so ago, some people claimed that this was accounted for by making a sort of "time bubble" within which Redcliffe existed, fueled by the rift that you close in front of the town gates on your way to meet Fiona at the Gull and Lantern. Supposedly, alternate Fiona existed outside the time bubble and then disappeared after she returned to it, or something similarly poorly explained; this time bubble also apparently acted as a force field and kept everybody out which is why Fereldan troops show up immediately after Alexius' failed ploy with the amulet. This doesn't fly either. Inquisition forces had already reached Redcliffe by that point; a scout meets the Herald at the gates and he had already talked with Fiona and the mage leadership, long before the rift was sealed. And "creating a force field/time bubble" is not how the amulet is demonstrated to work. It opens up portals, nothing more and nothing less. (Apart from that, it'd be impossible to feed the town if nobody could get into the gates, but since BioWare writing rarely takes food into account that's a bit of a wash.)

So we are left with the entire plot hinging on a Fiona that should not, cannot exist. The only way I can think of to account for this problem is to blame it on Dorian's fears about time travel: that it is tearing apart the fabric of reality and destroying causation and creating random people where they shouldn't actually exist. But that is never actually demonstrated apart from this single instance, and it's really quite an unsatisfactory explanation for a slapped-up narrative. Why doesn't the demon army from the future show up when the Inquisition is marching to the temple to close the Breach in "In Your Heart Shall Burn"?

Problem Two is more of a minor thing: how Alexius apparently managed to defeat Leliana, two companions (possibly including an actual god and the Hero of Orlais), and a hall full of Inquisition soldiers...by himself. And imprison them all. When the Herald and Dorian are whisked away to the future, that doesn't change the fact that Alexius has got several arrows pointed directly at his throat, with no guys to help him. OKAY THEN. Look: it makes sense that without the Herald to close rifts and the Breach, and without foreknowledge of Corypheus' plans, that Corypheus would steamroll the world. The Dark Future's existence in and of itself is perfectly reasonable. What doesn't make sense is how Alexius survived to see it, and why the people in the castle were defeated and imprisoned before Corypheus' victory. (And also: HOW DO THE VENATORI IN THE CASTLE GET FOOD IF DEMONS HAVE KILLED OFF ALL THE VILLAGERS. But that is a standard BioWare fictional writing issue.)

Problem Three is a meta-problem, not merely for what time-travel is used for, but for what it is not used. For somebody whose time-travel should theoretically give him a great deal of power over the time period after the Breach, Alexius does not seem to be terribly well prepared for the Inquisition's arrival at Redcliffe. The Inquisition does not appear to be expected or welcome; although this interpretation mostly relies on comments from the town's mages, Alexius seems to have been surprised and his plans derailed by the Inquisition's arrival and forced to cobble together a transparent attempt at a trap in order to deal with the Herald. If the whole thing was a setup for the Herald, then he should have taken her in the Gull and Lantern (or, hell, at the gates of Redcliffe) instead of drawing out negotiations and offering the Herald every opportunity to escape the trap. And since Alexius could know when the Herald was coming - y'know, because he had the amulet and could go back to warn himself as soon as the Herald and her party left the Gull and Lantern - it's truly bizarre that he didn't.

And there's a good chance that the barrier to using the amulet isn't that high, because Alexius uses it dozens of times in the Dark Future to try to reverse the events at the Conclave, and because there's nothing that seems to be all that tough about using the amulet in Redcliffe when he sends Dorian and the Herald into the future. Admittedly, this is guesswork and probability rather than an outright plot hole, but it's not that important.

What's worse is what happens if the Herald goes to Therinfal instead of Redcliffe. Or rather, what doesn't happen, namely: anything! Even if Alexius couldn't prevent the Herald from becoming, y'know, the Herald, he could still work to prevent the Herald from going to Therinfal. He could have warned the Red Templars. He could've warned Corypheus. He could pull any number of countermeasures in the time between the events at Therinfal and the closure of the Breach which ends his time magic's usefulness for good. But he doesn't. He apparently sits in Redcliffe with his thumb up his butt until his time magic's usefulness is destroyed with the Breach's closure, at which point Corypheus executes him for his failure and replaces him with somebody competent.

Now, this last bit isn't fully a problem with time travel's use in the plot itself. It's not a plot hole (and I truly hate that term so I feel annoyed with myself at having used it, but there isn't a better one that I can think of) like Fiona is. You can explain it simply with Alexius' staggering incompetence. But I'd prefer not to do that, because enemies that are written up as staggeringly incompetent aren't very good enemies.
---

Now, the things you mentioned are true. I like that time travel relied on the Breach, and was for lack of a better term time-bound to the Breach's existence. I like that it wasn't overused. But introducing time travel inherently causes a lot of problems for any narrative, and although the writers dealt with some of these potential issues they did not deal with all of them.

Therinfal's just a tighter story, IMO.
 

As to Leliana, it was horrible but she was amazing, and it stiffened my resolve to defeat Coryphytits.


I'll just leave this here. (The associated conversation draws on a fair number of these points, fwiw.)
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#64413
AlexiaRevan

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Both side were kinda Lame...

 

Alexius supposed to be your Mage/Templar Vilain...and the guy barely register that you are standing before him wanting to take his head off . Ya come out all steamed and wanna go renegade Interrupt..and he just give up...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

Then ya go to Templar , and....ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

<_<



#64414
SardaukarElite

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Oh, it's janky.

 

That.

 

Also, I want to add that the purpose of the Time Travel plot is to show the cost of failure for the Inquisition, to add emotional stakes. I feel needing to break the laws of lore to do that (and physics) blowing everything open but in a way that has no consequence if you don't want it to is something of a cop out. It's a basic need of storytelling, you shouldn't need time travel.

 

 



Only Star Wars sucked when it come to making nice ships...they all look like crap...

 

What? Star Wars ships are boss. Even the new ones are cool.

 

----

 

Not sure what to add to the cool ships discussion other than the Astrid was definitely made for crashing a party.


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#64415
Aimi

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Also, I want to add that the purpose of the Time Travel plot is to show the cost of failure for the Inquisition, to add emotional stakes. I feel needing to break the laws of lore to do that (and physics) blowing everything open but in a way that has no consequence if you don't want it to is something of a cop out. It's a basic need of storytelling, you shouldn't need time travel.


I know, right? This happens all the time.
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#64416
raging_monkey

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Ill say it ill always do mage side just for time travel

#64417
Red of Rivia

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Ill say it ill always do mage side just for time travel

Heretic.



#64418
raging_monkey

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Heretic.

And proud of it

#64419
Red of Rivia

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And proud of it

Disappoints me :/  :P



#64420
raging_monkey

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Disappoints me :/  :P

get in line haha

#64421
Red of Rivia

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get in line haha

You will be burned by this heresy.  :P



#64422
HuldraDancer

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Oooh this semi topic now?

 

Vastly prefer siding with the templars for the quest it gives that and you get Cole faster and I love that adorable little guy. Also facing a demon in your own mind? Awesome~



#64423
raging_monkey

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You will be burned by this heresy.  :P

rrrrriiiiigghhht hehe

#64424
raging_monkey

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Oooh this semi topic now?
 
Vastly prefer siding with the templars for the quest it gives that and you get Cole faster and I love that adorable little guy. Also facing a demon in your own mind? Awesome~

love cole to bits... but envy in sp isnt worth it lol he's worse in mp too op lol

#64425
Knight of Dane

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Oooh this semi topic now?

 

Vastly prefer siding with the templars for the quest it gives that and you get Cole faster and I love that adorable little guy. Also facing a demon in your own mind? Awesome~

 

I do it more for Barris. Fiona's got nothing on that bro.


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