100552 réponses à ce sujet

[LightningPoodle]

Yep. Chris Hansen if I'm not mistaken.

 

Yes, that's his name.

 

Like I said, I didn't know who he was until Pedobear came on the scene. Put it together, realised my mistake. I hear police sirens and a knock on my door. Back in a tick.

 

 

I'm joking. I hope you all know this, right?

[Sporothrix]

Thanks for taking the time to answer.  It seems Sera as a character was a disappointment for you and failed as a LI for you as well. 

 

To throw a question out to anyone who wants to answer, though your answer would be especially appreciated, did Sera succeed as a realistic lesbian character?  I know you had concerns about her Iron Bull quanari line being taken by the game playing audience to indicate that she might not be exclusively interested in women, but taken as a whole did she succeed as an accurate portrayal of a lesbian character?

 

With regard to respecting lesbians and lesbians’ sexuality, are there any positive/accurate/good representations of how lesbians and their sexuality should be represented?  The failure shown in the link above (and the links in your other posts) is helpful in showing what should not be done if one is trying to be respectful.  I already know many ways to fail.  What does success look like?

 

I don't think it was handled very good, but not for the reasons some other posters here mentioned. It's not necessarily about making a big issue out of her sexuality (though honestly, when only gay men's sexuality is always presented as some Big Deal, while lesbian sexuality is only treated as nothing important or noteworthy, it's sending damaging message). What made it feel completely unrealistic and artificial for me is the fact that even Sera's romance arc completely lacks any sexuality-related talk, since in real same-sex relationships such talk just always takes place. And as other posters noted here before, devs could easily make Sera bisexual and it wouldn't even need much of a change in dialogues.

 

Basically, I felt similar with her as during romancing via mods straight characters in older Bioware games that didn't have same-sex options (btw, from what I remember Jaheira didn't have dialogues in which it was clear she was talking to a man, or at least those were rare). All that talk that Sera was written as a „person” first tells me that she was simply written as a straight person and then was „gated” for women.

 

There are issues that set us apart from straight people. Those issues don't necessarily have to be exactly the same in the world of Thedas, though honestly I think the game and official informations are very often self-contradictory and lack consistence, but even the first game showed us that there exists separated label for lesbians in the world of Thedas. And that little fact has far-reaching implications. It means that, unlike some other posters here wished it to be, homosexuality is recognized as something different that is worth having different name, and there probably exists sub-culture of lesbians, or rather „poetesses” like it exists in real life and existed for a long time, as you could see from letters of Anne Lister for example. Because while sexuality is not a matter of choice, what drives people to form separated sub-cultures and circles of interests is the fact of being different from the majority, and it has nothing to do with oppression. Actually, lack of any fear of persecution only furthers it, as examples of rich lesbians like Renee Vivien or Natalie Clifford Barney and their lesbian cliques from the turn of XIX and XX centuries show.

 

And of course, during interactions with Sera, the word „poetess” has never been spoken, not even during romance conversations.

 

I also agree with syllogi's points that I mentioned before (here is the link again), which were exactly about this very issue, response to "no big deal" argument:

 

When you're heterosexual, representation is so complete it becomes invisible.  I mean, tv shows made for toddlers reinforce and value heterosexual romantic love.  It may not seem like a big deal to have *one* lesbian character who isn't waving a pride flag, but that's the only one.  And when I'm constantly told that the only "good" way to be a "good lesbian" is to not be a "stereotype", it kind of feels like showing any kind of hint of my sexuality is seen as gross and insulting, and "too much" for straight people.  So when I see what is supposed to be representation in a game, and it appears to be held to that standard of "not TOO much lady gay, unless she's turning down a boy or talking about sexy ladies!", it gets old.

 

If I recall correctly, Maria Caliban months before the game came out touched this subject during discussion with Sera's writer, By the way, anyone knows what happened to her?

[wintery]

Partial answer to a question from a few pages ago. Not so much my thoughts, just lists for someone looking. A couple of authors, including Malinda Lo (who I like) have been posting these lists

 

http://diversityinya...gged/DiYA Lists

 

I wish a lot of those books had been around a few years ago. I'm glad people have a lot more stories to choose from now. I did read Malinda Lo's Huntress and liked it.

 

Also on my kindle, but I haven't gotten to it yet, this anthology:

 

"Long Hidden: Speculative Fiction from the Margins of History"

 

[WildOrchid]

misoretu9, I'm sorry.  I think I did you a disservice with this line "I know you had concerns about her Iron Bull quanari line being taken by the game playing audience to indicate that she might not be exclusively interested in women." 

 

In that one line summary I failed to make it clear that your argument was more subtle and that you weren't saying that line had to be taken a certain way.  You were saying that it could be taken a certain way by the video game audience and if it was taken that way it raised the specter of reinforcing the stereotype of the lesbian who's secretly interested in men or confused about her sexuality. 

 

It's also possible I misread, mis-remebered, or mis-attributed the posts where this argument was made and it wasn't even you.  I now wish I had just left that line out of my post.  If anyone is a daft ****** it's me.     

 

Don't be so hard on yourself. *hugs*

 

I personally i've read that line and it's all about Sera talking about qunari women. Although, i do remember another line I forgot rn which made her writer, Lukas, to post here and say that there's nothing Sera says that could imply anything about dudes.

[introverted_assassin]

Echinacea. That is what you need.

Someone on the tumblr broke down the problems with Sera's character. I didn't disagree. That was new. But MY problem lies in how she was written. i have said this from day one....or nine but whatevs.

Heading to...the Temple of Dumat to holla at Calpernia i believe. Seems like she isn't 100% down with whatever Coryphilis is on. I'm guessing an opportunity to talk some sense into her will present itself. I'm down.

[CrimsonN7]

edit: bah NVM won't link.

[Lady Luminous]

Echinacea. That is what you need.

Someone on the tumblr broke down the problems with Sera's character. I didn't disagree. That was new. But MY problem lies in how she was written. i have said this from day one....or nine but whatevs.

Heading to...the Temple of Dumat to holla at Calpernia i believe. Seems like she isn't 100% down with whatever Coryphilis is on. I'm guessing an opportunity to talk some sense into her will present itself. I'm down.

 

Oooh, enjoy! I love the Temple of Dumat.

[Sporothrix]

I really like how the movie Pitch Perfect dealt with it. There's a character named Cynthia Rose who everyone is always labelling as a probable lesbian, but no-one actually knows. Then at the end when they're sharing secrets Cynthia admits that she has a gambling addiction, when everyone thought she was about to come out. Then she says that it started after she broke up with her girlfriend.

I've seen TV shows that used this kind of approach ("no labels" specifically), and I while I think it helps bisexual women, it does no good for lesbians. It challenges no damaging (for gay women) ideas about female sexuality that are popular nowadays, that all women are bisexual, which in turn delegitimizes lesbian sexuality.

[LightningPoodle]

Oooh, enjoy! I love the Temple of Dumat.

 

I like that place. It has an eerily daunting feeling to it.

[Lady Luminous]

 

I've seen TV shows that used this kind of approach ("no labels" specifically), and I while I think it helps bisexual women, it does no good for lesbians. It challenges no damaging (for gay women) ideas about female sexuality that are popular nowadays, that all women are bisexual, which in turn delegitimizes lesbian sexuality.

 

 

I don't think that there should be no mention of sexuality. I think it's definitely important that we find out a character's orientation. I just think it should be a secondary characteristic instead of front and centre. 

 

I want to get to know them as a person -  instead of as  a lesbian or gay person.  

[Lady Luminous]

I like that place. It has an eerily daunting feeling to it.

 

Not the Temple of Dirthamen though, that place is too scary. 

[LightningPoodle]

Not the Temple of Dirthamen though, that place is too scary. 

 

The screeching from what ever the hell it is... I couldn't get it out of my head... that and my brother kept doing it all the time to me...

[Lady Luminous]

The screeching from what ever the hell it is... I couldn't get it out of my head... that and my brother kept doing it all the time to me...

 

Isn't it from whatever horror spawns behind you when you take the piece off the alter?

[LightningPoodle]

Isn't it from whatever horror spawns behind you when you take the piece off the alter?

 

Might be but I'm not sure. I think it's something else that wasn't shown. I think that thing is just an acolyte to whatever that scream came from.

[Lady Luminous]

Might be but I'm not sure. I think it's something else that wasn't shown. I think that thing is just an acolyte to whatever that scream came from.

 

Either way it's creepy as ****.

 

Edit: Actually, could it be a time echo of when the dismemberment took place? Like a sound memory?

[LightningPoodle]

Either way it's creepy as ****.

 

Edit: Actually, could it be a time echo of when the dismemberment took place? Like a sound memory?

 

Could be. That would actually be pretty cool if it was.

[Serza]

No, the guy from Crims post. That is the guy who hosts How to Catch a Predator, right?

 

Oh, that? Random dude to me.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I've seen TV shows that used this kind of approach ("no labels" specifically), and I while I think it helps bisexual women, it does no good for lesbians. It challenges no damaging (for gay women) ideas about female sexuality that are popular nowadays, that all women are bisexual, which in turn delegitimizes lesbian sexuality.

Is a shame bisexual & lesbian women so often get treated the same in the media, the bi girl vastly prefers & dates men with hardly any talk about her S/S attractions while the lesbian girl commonly falls in love with a guy or has sex with guys & enjoys it followed by them also dating guys later on like they've been "fixed". Not surprising people refuse to take women who like other women seriously

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Goddamn jrob.

 

Oh, yes, blame another...

[wintery]

A lot of asterisks in the ******* thread today.

 

Frell

[Sporothrix]

misoretu9, I'm sorry.  I think I did you a disservice with this line "I know you had concerns about her Iron Bull quanari line being taken by the game playing audience to indicate that she might not be exclusively interested in women." 

 

In that one line summary I failed to make it clear that your argument was more subtle and that you weren't saying that line had to be taken a certain way.  You were saying that it could be taken a certain way by the video game audience and if it was taken that way it raised the specter of reinforcing the stereotype of the lesbian who's secretly interested in men or confused about her sexuality. 

 

It's also possible I misread, mis-remebered, or mis-attributed the posts where this argument was made and it wasn't even you.  I now wish I had just left that line out of my post.  If anyone is a daft ****** it's me.     

 

Well, this is especially important issue to me as I explained quite a few times before on this forum and I actually started freaking out because that Sera's line about Iron Bull when you play as female Qunari certainly sounded suspicious, so I seeked for reassurance on this forum that it didn't mean what I feared it could mean, but all I was getting was either "so what she's attracted to him" or "it means nothing, don't think about it" and some person even started attacking me for trying to dictate other lesbians that they can't be into men.

 

But at least my freak out made Lukas explain his intentions behind those lines, so in the end I think it was worth it, since apart from some people on this very thread understanding it as a showcase of attraction on Sera's behalf, I've seen such interpretations also elsewhere.

[Lady Luminous]

A lot of asterisks in the ******* thread today.

 

Frell

 

****. ****. ****- ity ****? 

[LightningPoodle]

Excuse me if this is an uncomfortable question but why do males have nipples?   I'm looking at my nipples and wondering why I have them.

[Serza]

****. ****. ****- ity ****? 

 

I detect an "ity" - you're still not as rude as R2D2. They had to censor out EVERY SINGLE WORD R2D2 said.