100543 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

There would be many different types of clans, of course. I'm just saying.. taking that route will get you nowhere. I think the burden is on Dalish to always keep that in mind. The CE mentality is more likely to be fascinated by a Dalish instead.

 

Your post reminds me how some people have this tendency to paint all the Dalish with a very broad brush, and usually in a negative way. Whether it's the lore, or the characters we meet, we know that all Dalish aren't alike, even among members of the same clan, but there's this tendency to generalize them in the worst way. Quite frankly, I don't see the point.

 

More importantly, I've already addressed how Clan Virnehn is an atypical clan, and I've cited numerous examples of Dalish interacting with non-Dalish in positive ways. I've also pointed out there are some small-minded people among the Dalish and the city elves.

 

Quite frankly, Sera may have only heard stories about the Dalish, similar to Leliana (who asks the elven Warden about what she's heard, and the same might end up happening if Sera has never met any of the Dalish before).

 

Sometimes it might just be isolated segments of a clan as well. Like Velanna. Her clan didn't want her around. She was "poisonous" to the group. She has a lot to learn, even after you recruit her. The way she treats that City Elf couple in Amaranthine sucks, for example.

 

Velanna is one person, and the treatment of her clan towards the player - who not only positively remark on seeing her in the company of humans, but talk respectfully to the protagonist and take your word seriously if you stick up for her - already shows that it isn't fair to paint all the Dalish with the same brush.

[Reznore57]

Well Sera is also a person who lives in the Now.

So imagine the Dalish telling her about the whole "We endure , We remember , We look for our lost history ...blablabla"

And just imagine Sera falling asleep ,or running away screaming.

[Xilizhra]

I'm not doing that. I'm only saying the burden is on them to be friendly. The typical CE probably looks up to them.

It varies. Pol in the Dalish origin says that the city elves tend to be leery and fearful of the Dalish, and that the clan is a lot nicer than he ever expected.

[LobselVith8]

No. I'm just saying there's a lesson to be learned from that. It's a part of DA lore now, and I'm allowed to use it.

 

It's one clan, who don't even act in accordance to how the Dalish are supposed to. I honestly think an elven Inquisitor might express extreme confusion at Clan Virnehn summoning a spirit, or extreme anger at not going to help the elves at Halamshiral. If it's a dialogue option, my Dalish Inquisitor certainly would.

 

And there is a general pattern in the Dalish mentality to point arrows first. To see themselves as always the victim and to be on the defense. This goes for anyone in real life who always reminds themselves of how they've been victimized. It's not a good way to approach the world.. because sometimes you end up snapping on the undeserving if you think like that.

 

The Dalish have a right to be wary towards outsiders, because their religion was outlawed by the Chantry, which makes them targets when the clan stays too long in one area, and their mages are maleficarum in the eyes of the templars. At the old Dragon Central board, Gaider said:

 

They were still living as part of the societies they migrated to, however. The Dalish do not. At best they'll camp too near some human settlement and eventually the local ruler will drive them out, or they will leave voluntarily before things get too tense, but for the most part the Dalish live entirely seperated from human society.

 

It would be dangerous for them not to be cautious, and it could result in getting people killed. Of course, I expect the elven Inquisitor and Sera to meet one another under different circumstances.

 

Look at my avatar though btw.. I'm a Dalish fan myself (although that avatar isn't exactly Dalish, I guess). You don't need to come to their defense. I'm just trying to be fair, looking from the outside.

 

I'm just trying to explain that there are other sides to the issue here. If Sera or Briala thought the worst about the Dalish because of what they encountered from one clan or heard about in rumors, I'd hope my elven Inquisitor could say much of the same things I've said. The Dalish aren't perfect, but no one in Thedas is.

[jlb524]

I kind of wonder if the Dalish are just repeating history a little bit. It's not class distinction now though, but about who even deserves the title of being called a true "elf".

 

Dalish Inquisitor has to give up the 'true elf' lifestyle and this could be an interesting bit of character dev.

 

I don't think someone like Sera has had any experience with the Dalish and she probably won't have much of an opinion so the Inquisitor will come to represent 'the Dalish' to her.  I doubt the typical City Elf thinks much about the Dalish (if at all).  

 

This is likely true of other companions in the Inquisition (besides Varric/Leliana).

[Dr. Doctor]

Oddly enough, I can picture Solas getting along with Sera at least ideologically. Solas is pro-freedom of thought, Sera isn't as open-minded but both of them don't like the establishment trying to dictate what they can and cannot do.

[Maria Caliban]

Solas: I enjoy sticking my head in lions' mouths to see what will happen.
Sera: Yeeeeaaaah. Have fun with that.

[jlb524]

At the end of the day, I don't think the Dalish vs. City Elf thing is going to matter too much as both the Inquisitor and Sera will be treated as elves by most people the Inquisition comes into contact with.   I would say that Sera has more experience dealing with humans than the Dalish Inquis, but both are still out of their 'comfort zone'.  The Inquisitor isn't used to dealing with humans and is now must lead a human dominated organization that will mainly be dealing with human troubles (I'm assuming).  Sera has always opposed authority and is now an elf in what will become the most influential authority in Fereldan/Orlais.

 

I could see bonding over being an elf that feels out of place.

 

I think gleaning from the CE origin or TME, then the main opinion is that the Dalish are "legends". It's almost unreal. Fenris kind of says the same thing. That most elves didn't even think living with Dalish was remotely realistic. That it was like "living on the moon".

 

It seems that's how most CE feel.  I remember the scene where Marethari visits the Kirkwall Alienage in DA2 and the elves showed her great respect by bowing to her.  They've never met her but have probably heard she's an important member of a Dalish Clan....a 'larger than life' figure.

[LobselVith8]

Dalish Inquisitor has to give up the 'true elf' lifestyle and this could be an interesting bit of character dev.

 

I imagine it would be a difficult transition, to go from living in a clan with people you've spent your entire life with, to working alongside an organization comprised of people your people have viewed as enemies for centuries. A follower of the Creators in a sea of Andrastian soldiers - former Seekers and templars. It's why I'd hope Sera and the elven Inquisitor could have some common ground, even though they would be world's apart in certain respects; despite the two being elves, they come from drastically different cultures.

 

I don't think someone like Sera has had any experience with the Dalish and she probably won't have much of an opinion so the Inquisitor will come to represent 'the Dalish' to her.  I doubt the typical City Elf thinks much about the Dalish (if at all).  

 

This is likely true of other companions in the Inquisition (besides Varric/Leliana).

 

Quite possibly. Sera's time with the FoRJ might have gotten her accustomed to different kinds of people. Otherwise, I'll be reminded of the conversation between Sigrun and Velanna:

 

Sigrun: You're the first elf I've ever known. Do you feel honored?

 

Velanna: Why would I feel honored?

 

Sigrun: Your actions will influence my opinion of your race. Forever.

 

Velanna: Oh. Thank you. I needed more anxiety.

 

Sigrun: Glad to help!

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I wonder how other Dalish will view the elven inquisitor, im guessing alot of them will consider him/her a traitor for getting mixed up with a human organization.

[LobselVith8]

I wonder how other Dalish will view the elven inquisitor, im guessing alot of them will consider him/her a traitor for getting mixed up with a human organization.

 

I don't see why. Mahariel isn't viewed as a traitor by Zathrian's clan for being a member of the Grey Wardens (which is predominantly shemlen), and this is the only time you even learn about why Sarel is so angry. Even Velanna (when she's lost in anger over the deaths of her friends and the disappearance of her sister) doesn't greet the Dalish Warden-Commander with hostility upon learning the protagonist is a Warden, and not part of Marethari's clan anymore. The Inquisition is certainly Andrastian in origin (hence the name), which may make the Dalish apprehensive, but there's also the fact that the shemlen are following the command of one of the People, which might intrigue them.

 

There's also the question of how Andrastian elves will view the elven Inquisitor, and how Sera might feel about an elf being in charge of the organization. Perhaps it might not matter to her at all, or maybe she might see it as beneficial to their people, given how she seems to care about the disenfranchised. I'm a little uncertain as to how much Sera's elven heritage will matter to her, especially given what was described in the survey.

[Former_Fiend]

I don't see why. Mahariel isn't viewed as a traitor by Zathrian's clan for being a member of the Grey Wardens (which is predominantly shemlen), and this is the only time you even learn about why Sarel is so angry. Even Velanna (when she's lost in anger over the deaths of her friends and the disappearance of her sister) doesn't greet the Dalish Warden-Commander with hostility upon learning the protagonist is a Warden, and not part of Marethari's clan anymore. The Inquisition is certainly Andrastian in origin (hence the name), which may make the Dalish apprehensive, but there's also the fact that the shemlen are following the command of one of the People, which might intrigue them.

 

There's also the question of how Andrastian elves will view the elven Inquisitor, and how Sera might feel about an elf being in charge of the organization. Perhaps it might not matter to her at all, or maybe she might see it as beneficial to their people, given how she seems to care about the disenfranchised. I'm a little uncertain as to how much Sera's elven heritage will matter to her, especially given what was described in the survey.

 

 

The comparison isn't entirely appropriate, though, as the Wardens are over a thousand years old. The inquisition is an upstart organization that's being viewed with leery eyes by damn near everyone; I don't see why the dalish would be an exception to that. It's also strongly implied by The Masked Empire that Zathrian and Merrill's clans were exceptions to the rule in how they viewed outsiders. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I wonder how other Dalish will view the elven inquisitor, im guessing alot of them will consider him/her a traitor for getting mixed up with a human organization.

I'm beginning to wonder how Sera is going to get along with an elven Inquisitor.  Do you think they would get along, or do you think they'd butt heads over the fate of the elves?

[LobselVith8]

The comparison isn't entirely appropriate, though, as the Wardens are over a thousand years old. The inquisition is an upstart organization that's being viewed with leery eyes by damn near everyone; I don't see why the dalish would be an exception to that. It's also strongly implied by The Masked Empire that Zathrian and Merrill's clans were exceptions to the rule in how they viewed outsiders. 

 

I find it appropriate to the extent of addressing why an elven Inquisitor being in an organization with a shemlen population wouldn't necessarily view the protagonist as a "traitor", since there's a precedent for it. As for the Inquisition being an upstart, that's also why I included in my post that they might have some apprehension, given the Andrastian composition of some of it's members. However, the Dalish protagonist is the one in charge, and who the shemlen take their orders from, which might interest them quite a bit.

 

Also, Clan Virnehn was the exception to the rule in so many ways, as I've pointed out in previous posts in this thread a few hours ago. You don't take an atypical clan that doesn't even adhere to Dalish rules and cite them as an example of most Dalish clans, particularly when the lore and posts by the developers contradict the notion of most Dalish clans emulating the behavior of Clan Virnehn.

[.shea.]

I'm beginning to wonder how Sera is going to get along with an elven Inquisitor.  Do you think they would get along, or do you think they'd butt heads over the fate of the elves?

 

I guess it'll depend on how you roleplay your dalish/elven Inquisitor, I don't think she'll be at odds with the Inquisitor simply because s/he is dalish.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I wonder how other Dalish will view the elven inquisitor, im guessing alot of them will consider him/her a traitor for getting mixed up with a human organization.

I would hope not.

 

I'm beginning to wonder how Sera is going to get along with an elven Inquisitor.  Do you think they would get along, or do you think they'd butt heads over the fate of the elves?

I've said this before, but Sera does not strike me as the most loyal or patriotic elf there is. With this in mind, I would imagine Sera simply won't care where the Inquisitor comes from. She's likely to have her own opinions and views on the politics surrounding the elves, but I doubt she'd let them get in the way of the Inquisitor when it comes to making crucial decisions.

 

One way or the other, I do hope the Inquisitior's race is acknowledged by the game in some shape or form. The extent to which DA:O went in this department was good enough for me, so if DA:I follows suit, I'll be happy. It doesn't have to be much, just enough so it makes sense and doesn't remind you that you're playing a video game.

[jlb524]

There's also the question of how Andrastian elves will view the elven Inquisitor, and how Sera might feel about an elf being in charge of the organization. Perhaps it might not matter to her at all, or maybe she might see it as beneficial to their people, given how she seems to care about the disenfranchised. I'm a little uncertain as to how much Sera's elven heritage will matter to her, especially given what was described in the survey.

 

I think 'being an elf' would be more important to the Dalish Inquisitor.  Culturally, Sera has more in common with the poor humans and would likely be more comfortable with a human from that group in charge of the Inquisition.  She would view 'her people' as all the poor/common folk and not necessarily 'the elves'.

 

A typical Dalish would put more value on the shared elven heritage, even if Sera is not Dalish.  My Inquisitor will definitely be more at ease when Sera and Solas join the team.

 

I want to think that Sera would still have some respect for the Dalish and may assume that they are more understanding and willing to help 'her people' than, say, the human Inquisitor who is likely from noble birth.   Looking at the Dalish as a society, they take care of everyone in their clan and only consume what is needed and this is different from what she experiences living among humans...decadence for the nobility while poor folk starve.   On the other hand, it seems Sera wants this status quo to return so she and her 'friends' can play...whatever that means.   FoRJ like to mess around with the wealthy and powerful I guess.  If this is the case, Sera may find Dalish society 'boring'.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think 'being an elf' would be more important to the Dalish Inquisitor.  Culturally, Sera has more in common with the poor humans and would likely be more comfortable with a human from that group in charge of the Inquisition.  She would view 'her people' as all the poor/common folk and not necessarily 'the elves'.

This is partly what I'm getting at when I say Sera isn't too concerned about the elves (or being an elf, for that matter). While she might in theory feel more comfortable with a human Inquisitor in charge, ultimately it won't matter to her. At least not to any appreciable degree.

 

Sera is probably going to have that 'practical' personality type, where following your head always comes before following your heart.

[Former_Fiend]

I think 'being an elf' would be more important to the Dalish Inquisitor.  Culturally, Sera has more in common with the poor humans and would likely be more comfortable with a human from that group in charge of the Inquisition.  She would view 'her people' as all the poor/common folk and not necessarily 'the elves'.

 

A typical Dalish would put more value on the shared elven heritage, even if Sera is not Dalish.  My Inquisitor will definitely be more at ease when Sera and Solas join the team.

 

I want to think that Sera would still have some respect for the Dalish and may assume that they are more understanding and willing to help 'her people' than, say, the human Inquisitor who is likely from noble birth.   Looking at the Dalish as a society, they take care of everyone in their clan and only consume what is needed and this is different from what she experiences living among humans...decadence for the nobility while poor folk starve.   On the other hand, it seems Sera wants this status quo to return so she and her 'friends' can play...whatever that means.   FoRJ like to mess around with the wealthy and powerful I guess.  If this is the case, Sera may find Dalish society 'boring'.

 

 

I don't know that that is actually true, though. The Masked Empire featured a dalish clan that cared precisely nothing for city elves, considering them human-tainted beyond help, to the point of not considering them elves anymore. Their keeper gave the impression that clans who feel differently, like the ones featured in Origins and DA2, are in the minority.

[jlb524]

I don't know that that is actually true, though. The Masked Empire featured a dalish clan that cared precisely nothing for city elves, considering them human-tainted beyond help, to the point of not considering them elves anymore. Their keeper gave the impression that clans who feel differently, like the ones featured in Origins and DA2, are in the minority.

 

I'm just saying it would probably be more important to a Dalish Inquisitor than Sera.

 

As for the Keeper or Clan Virnehn...I would say, of course he believes most other Dalish agree with him