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[renfrees]

With Aveline, it took some time for this character to grow on me, but she did. With Carver, however, as much effort as I put into liking his character, I only hated him more. That said, I thought he was really well written. Aside from that, having him alive made other parts of the game more interesting, like his personal quest in the beginning of Act 1. Despite all that, I found my patience quickly being drained from me whenever he opened his mouth, either in conversation with Hawke or bantering with the other members of the party. The one conversation that did make me laugh, and kind of made it worth it, was having both Isabela and Varric in the same party, and Isabela traps him with conversation regarding the Blooming Rose, only to have Varric chime in with a "Oh ho! Nicely done". But nowadays, he always dies in the prologue.

It was quite enjoyable being a biatch to Carver. Almost half of the reasons i ran mage PTs. Bethany is just too dull in comparison.

[Former_Fiend]

I've always understood the reasons why Carver was rather unpopular with the fandom, but liked him none the less. I think he has much more interesting character growth than Bethany.

 

The nail in the coffin for me liking Aveline actually came on a mage playthrough; during banter in act one, Carver talks to Aveline about getting a job as a guard and it's revealed that Aveline has actively blocked Carver from getting that job.

 

My family is packed into a rat hole in Lowtown, desperate for income, and she actively prevented my brother from getting gainful, lawful employment.

 

Yea, no, I'm not feeling any friendship there. 

[Grieving Natashina]

This is pretty off-topic, but I wanted to address your statetment Former.  Context is good in this case:

 

 

Carver: Did you approve my application?

Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver.

Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me?

Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders.

Carver: (Laughs) No you don't.

Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous.

Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you?

Aveline: Yes.

 

Someone that is being selfish and frankly, whiny would make for a very bad guard.  Aveline did what was best for the entire city, and didn't do it to snub Hawke.  Carver was a pretty smart guy with a sword in Kirkwall.  He could have found another job, since he wasn't exactly a helpless babe.

 

One moment and then let's get this back on topic.  

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, I found this on photobucket but sadly, I cannot find the name of the artist.   This isn't DA fanart, but when I saw this picture, it reminded me of our gal.

 

\

 

I really hope we learn more soon!

[Former_Fiend]

 

This is pretty off-topic, but I wanted to address your statetment Former.  Context is good in this case:

 

 

Carver: Did you approve my application?

Aveline: I can't make you a guard, Carver.

Carver: We were both soldiers. Why won't they take me?

Aveline: I was an officer. And I follow orders.

Carver: (Laughs) No you don't.

Aveline: I also think of others before myself. You seem tired of that, and that's dangerous.

Carver: Just when it's not my choice. You told them not to take me, didn't you?

Aveline: Yes.

 

Someone that is being selfish and frankly, whiny would make for a very bad guard.  Aveline did what was best for the entire city, and didn't do it to snub Hawke.  Carver was a pretty smart guy with a sword in Kirkwall.  He could have found another job, since he wasn't exactly a helpless babe.

 

One moment and then let's get this back on topic.  

 

 

How she justifies it doesn't change that she's directly contributing to my family's poverty.

 

I also take issue with her not considering the possibility that service in the guard might help shape Carver into a better man, nor does she consider that her holding him back is directly contributing to the qualities she finds make him unworthy.

 

Carver grows into a better person in the Wardens and in the Templars. There's no reason he couldn't have done the same in the guard. Aveline could have helped him along in that but instead she decided to pass judgment as if she is the ultimate authority on who someone else is.

 

But you're right; back on topic. Regarding that piece of art...I think it's a little too dalish for our girl.

 

Honestly I'm questioning why she's an archer at all. It doesn't seem to be a particularly practical combat style for a thief, assuming the whole professional thief thing is still her backstory. 

[Grieving Natashina]

About the pic: True, but I wanted to get this conversation steered onto the correct course somehow.  So I figured a pretty picture of a blonde elf archer would be a good place to start.  

 

Why would a rogue use a bow?     That's a rather strange question to ask.  

 

She's a rogue archer for the same reason why some assassins use long range sniper rifles here in our world.  You're taking advantage of cover and long range to take out your opponent, rather than sneaking up to him directly.  It's deadly and allows you to stay more effectively out of harms way.

 

On her own, I'm guessing she rarely goes toe-to-toe with her enemies, but rather stalks them from a distance and picks them off as needed.  She will probably be more going toe-to-toe with mobs once she joins the Inquisitor's party, but that's more due to gameplay than story.

 

Edit: Ugh, used the same word to describe two different things in the same sentence.  My bad.

 

Edit #2: If anything, a rogue archer makes far more sense to me than the overly flashy style that Talis seemed to have. 

[Former_Fiend]

I didn't ask why a rogue would use a bow, I asked why a thief would use a bow.

 

I think of thieves, I think of close quarters. Sneaking into places you shouldn't be, getting close to people to pick pockets. If you get caught you're generally not in an area with enough room for a bow to be useful.I also figure a thief would want something more easily concealable than a bow.

 

There are plenty of reasons for a rogue to use a bow, as you said. But a knife would strike me as being more useful to a thief, specifically.

 

For that matter, it always bugged me that Leliana and Marjolane used bows; from the description of what Bards do, again, an easily concealable knife always struck me as being more practical in that line, though I suppose they'd have more occasion to snipe than a thief would. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I didn't ask why a rogue would use a bow, I asked why a thief would use a bow.

 

I think of thieves, I think of close quarters. Sneaking into places you shouldn't be, getting close to people to pick pockets. If you get caught you're generally not in an area with enough room for a bow to be useful.I also figure a thief would want something more easily concealable than a bow.

 

There are plenty of reasons for a rogue to use a bow, as you said. But a knife would strike me as being more useful to a thief, specifically.

 

For that matter, it always bugged me that Leliana and Marjolane used bows; from the description of what Bards do, again, an easily concealable knife always struck me as being more practical in that line, though I suppose they'd have more occasion to snipe than a thief would. 

 

More leaked survey stuff?  Learn something more about that every day.

 

Thanks for trying to pick my brain here.  The thief/rogue class has been one of my favorites since I started playing D&D over two decades ago. 

 

It depends upon what kind of thief she was.   Even if she's a city elf (which is both of our suspicions) she is not necessarily a back alley type of thief. A highway bandit-type could find a bow very useful versus a cut-purse that would need a dagger more.  Or she was a part of a lesser thieves guild (the Crows are just the biggest and most infamous) and she was the one perched on a rooftop as her comrades surrounded their mark.  

 

There is a lot of pretty good reasons why a city thief might prefer a bow.  

[Texhnolyze101]

She looks like an obnoxious idiot who sole purpose is to make a bunch of lame jokes and think they're funny just like varric.

[Grieving Natashina]

<looks at Tex's signature>

 

Right.   Well, hopefully you'll find someone more of your speed.  I'm sure that not everyone in the party is going to like having fun, cracking jokes and not being so serious all the time.

[Texhnolyze101]

<looks at Tex's signature>

 

Right.   Well, hopefully you'll find someone more of your speed.  I'm sure that not everyone in the party is going to like having fun, cracking jokes and not being so serious all the time.

 

I'm hoping the grey warden companion will be just that.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm hoping the grey warden companion will be just that.

You should probably check out his character thread then.  

 

http://forum.bioware...cussion-thread/

[Texhnolyze101]

You should probably check out his character thread then.  

 

http://forum.bioware...cussion-thread/

 

Thanks for the link.

[AlaskaThe1st]

More leaked survey stuff?  Learn something more about that every day.

 

Thanks for trying to pick my brain here.  The thief/rogue class has been one of my favorites since I started playing D&D over two decades ago. 

 

It depends upon what kind of thief she was.   Even if she's a city elf (which is both of our suspicions) she is not necessarily a back alley type of thief. A highway bandit-type could find a bow very useful versus a cut-purse that would need a dagger more.  Or she was a part of a lesser thieves guild (the Crows are just the biggest and most infamous) and she was the one perched on a rooftop as her comrades surrounded their mark.  

 

There is a lot of pretty good reasons why a city thief might prefer a bow.  

Well considering The Crows are an assassins guild, who's money is earned though murder and extortion. They may have use for a bowman to shoot people in the face, but thieves earn there pay though thievery; not murder. So if our lovely little elf is a thief and is part of a thieves guild, (and possibly small one) shadow working and dexterous fingers are much less attention drawing then shooting people in the face, A good thief is one that is never pointed out as one. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Well considering The Crows are an assassins guild, who's money is earned though murder and extortion. They may have use for a bowman to shoot people in the face, but thieves earn there pay though thievery; not murder. So if our lovely little elf is a thief and is part of a thieves guild, (and possibly small one) shadow working and dexterous fingers are much less attention drawing then shooting people in the face, A good thief is one that is never pointed out as one. 

Few problems with this:

 

1) Just about every thieves guild that I've read about/had a character apart of always had assigned lookouts.

 

2) They always had an archer on the nearby rooftops, waiting on the shadows.

 

3) Most rogue archers wouldn't just "shoot them in the face."  They would have been taking advantage of night and cover to conceal their location.  Rather hard to track.  

 

Did you see the Qunari archer coming in DA2 coming for Petrice?  Nope.  And the only reason why he revealed himself when he did was to make a point.  If he had remained fully concealed, no one would have seen him.

 

4) She might still use her nimble fingers and stealth abilities to do her job.  She doesn't need to have her primary weapon be a dagger to do it.   If anything, wearing a set of daggers screams "Thief!" to me way more than someone wielding a bow. 

[AlaskaThe1st]

Few problems with this:

 

1) Just about every thieves guild that I've read about/had a character apart of always had assigned lookouts.

 

2) They always had an archer on the nearby rooftops, waiting on the shadows.

 

3) Most rogue archers wouldn't just "shoot them in the face."  They would have been taking advantage of night and cover to conceal their location.  Rather hard to track.  

 

Did you see the Qunari archer coming in DA2 coming for Petrice?  Nope.  And the only reason why he revealed himself when he did was to make a point.  If he had remained fully concealed, no one would have seen him.

 

4) She might still use her nimble fingers and stealth abilities to do her job.  She doesn't need to have her primary weapon be a dagger to do it.   If anything, wearing a set of daggers screams "Thief!" to me way more than someone wielding a bow. 

Well sure for the first two, if we're planning a proper heist job (assuming the plan isn't to sending everyone else in to bash some heads, to many times that's happened in a tabletop). But bows is something I would image would be reserved for military, nobles and hunters, knives on the other hand is the peasants' weapon. Knife are so useful on carrying on ones person people still do it today, mugging or defending from the mugging; it's the knife that come into play.   

[Eagle Pusuit]

Robin Hood is often thought of as an archetypal rogue. What does he carry? A bow. Maybe she is less of a pickpocket or sneak thief and more of a highway woman.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well sure for the first two, if we're planning a proper heist job (assuming the plan isn't to sending everyone else in to bash some heads, to many times that's happened in a tabletop). But bows is something I would image would be reserved for military, nobles and hunters, knives on the other hand is the peasants' weapon. Knife are so useful on carrying on ones person people still do it today, mugging or defending from the mugging; it's the knife that come into play.   

If she turns out to be comfortable in the country as well as the city, she could claim she was going out hunting.  Shoot, if she's from Orlais or at least knows about the various Hunts that happen (surely the wyvern one is just one of many,) she could claim she was going to do one of those hunts.  

 

I've seen peasants in the games with simple bows.  The bow was used by far more than just military, nobility or hunting.  Fun fact: For a long time, the bow was considered a peasant-only weapon.

 

http://www.ancientfo...w-and-arrow.htm

 

The History of the Bow and Arrow dates back to antiquity. There are paintings, depicting archers, on the caves of Stone Age men. The Medieval Short Bow and arrow was the most common of all weapons - they were cheap to make. Medieval Short Bow Archers were viewed as the lowest of all fighting men. The medieval Knight was the most powerful and effective warrior and said to be worth 100 foot soldiers, who were regarded with the lowest esteem and considered expendable. The early medieval archer was perceived as an untrained peasant. The events at the Battle of Hastings changed the face of English Medieval warfare forever although the stature of English archers did not improve until the Longbow was introduced.

 

 

Bows were fine for peasants to use.  If they caught you with a sword though, then you were in deep trouble.

 

I played several thief/rogue archers over the years and that is pretty much what I did in the guild.  A quiet bird of death perched on a rooftop.  Plus, something we've both overlooked, is the fact that Sera might not care what anyone has to say about her choice of weapon anymore than folks bat an eye at a dwarf with a giant crossbow. 

 

 

Robin Hood is often thought of as an archetypal rogue. What does he carry? A bow. Maybe she is less of a pickpocket or sneak thief and more of a highway woman.

 

That was one of my thoughts too.  The "Band of Merry Men" could be easily called a thieves guild, even if they have noble goals.

[AlaskaThe1st]

Robin Hood is often thought of as an archetypal rogue. What does he carry? A bow. Maybe she is less of a pickpocket or sneak thief and more of a highway woman.

As long as she gives to the poor me, I can deal.

[Grieving Natashina]

As much as I'd love to talk more about medieval weaponry and the awesome rogues that use it, I need to get some sleep.  I hate being sick. 

 

Take care you guys! 

[AlaskaThe1st]

If she turns out to be comfortable in the country as well as the city, she could claim she was going out hunting.  Shoot, if she's from Orlais or at least knows about the various Hunts that happen (surely the wyvern one is just one of many,) she could claim she was going to do one of those hunts.  

 

I've seen peasants in the games with simple bows.  The bow was used by far more than just military, nobility or hunting.  Fun fact: For a long time, the bow was considered a peasant-only weapon.

 

http://www.ancientfo...w-and-arrow.htm

 

 

Bows were fine for peasants to use.  If they caught you with a sword though, then you were in deep trouble.

 

I played several thief/rogue archers over the years and that is pretty much what I did in the guild.  A quiet bird of death perched on a rooftop.  Plus, something we've both overlooked, is the fact that Sera might not care what anyone has to say about her choice of weapon anymore than folks bat an eye at a dwarf with a giant crossbow. 

 

 

 

True enough, but at the same time I don't think Elves are allowed weapons. period. I would think the city guard would be constantly man-handling her, unless she's someone of power, or has the connection to someone who is.

[bairdduvessa]

As much as I'd love to talk more about medieval weaponry and the awesome rogues that use it, I need to get some sleep.  I hate being sick. 

 

Take care you guys! 

i hope you feel better

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Just read the surveys ... Sera reads by far the most interesting to me.

 

 

I find archer rogues a bit boring in gameplay, but I get the feeling she'll be a fun one to interact with, ala Isabela.

[SiN82]

From her concept art she looks like an punk/emo/alternative out of the rules/funny girl! I hope she is really a unique character, and the crazy/fun element of our group

 

 

[Wolfen09]

combine isabella and merril thats the personality i could see