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Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)


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#82376
Serza

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You must have had tremors when you saw that one in the fade this time around. What a relief we did not have to fight it!

 

Hah, I remember standing there for good five minutes, repeating "It had to be massively oversized giant spiders..."


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#82377
The Loyal Nub

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Hah, I remember standing there for good five minutes, repeating "It had to be massively oversized giant spiders..."

 



#82378
YourFunnyUncle

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I haven't had any performance issues. Though I haven't played regularly across the patching.

 

 

I'm pretty sure the waves of mooks comes from the shortened health bars. You drop the kill time on the mooks, but expect to have similar combat time so you increase the number of mooks, but you have to put them in waves because performance reasons and nasty things with balancing damage. With a longer dev time you could hand place the wave's entry points but that's a whole different level design approach to what they took.

 

I'd argue DA2 isn't rushed because they clearly planned for the time they had, and weren't madly cutting things at the end resulting in an incoherent mess. I mean it obviously would have benefited from more time, but it didn't have that budgeted, considering that I think they did well. Comparatively I'd say DA:I isn't really that impressive an overall product for its lengthy development time.

So increase the health bars... For me the mooks are the least of the three problems I mentioned though. Act three definitely needed more content and exploration of Meredith and Orsino's characters IMO, and that bloody cave... I don't deny that they did the best they could with the time they had, but they should've been given more time.


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#82379
SardaukarElite

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So increase the health bars...

 

...and you increase the time to kill to each mook, which increases the time your character spends default attacking the one guy and you're back at slower, sluggish feel that DA2 deliberately set out to avoid.

 

 

Act three definitely needed more content and exploration of Meredith and Orsino's characters IMO, and that bloody cave... I don't deny that they did the best they could with the time they had, but they should've been given more time.

 

Really I'd rather they'd jumped straight onto a new engine.



#82380
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So increase the health bars... For me the mooks are the least of the three problems I mentioned though. Act three definitely needed more content and exploration of Meredith and Orsino's characters IMO, and that bloody cave... I don't deny that they did the best they could with the time they had, but they should've been given more time.

 

Wait.... cave? 

 

You mean the copy/paste one?



#82381
YourFunnyUncle

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...and you increase the time to kill to each mook, which increases the time your character spends default attacking the one guy and you're back at slower, sluggish feel that DA2 deliberately set out to avoid.

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure that the increased movement speed did a lot to address that. 

 

Wait.... cave? 

 

You mean the copy/paste one?

Yes. The one that appeared countless times with different blocked off doors and a different entry point. Oh and the copy/paste mansion and the copy/paste Dwarven Thaig/ruins.



#82382
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Hmmm... I'm pretty sure that the increased movement speed did a lot to address that. 

 

Yes. The one that appeared countless times with different blocked off doors and a different entry point. Oh and the copy/paste mansion and the copy/paste Dwarven Thaig/ruins.

 

Yeah, all a problem.

 

Didn't bother as much as it did for some, but I admit it sucked.



#82383
Lady Luminous

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Hmmm... I'm pretty sure that the increased movement speed did a lot to address that. 

 

Yes. The one that appeared countless times with different blocked off doors and a different entry point. Oh and the copy/paste mansion and the copy/paste Dwarven Thaig/ruins.

 

I refuse to believe that a rich family would deign to live in a mansion with grimy ruined tiles and broken furniture. They could have at least cleaned up if they were going to copy and paste it over.



#82384
YourFunnyUncle

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Yeah, all a problem.

 

Didn't bother as much as it did for some, but I admit it sucked.

It's just... If you're going to restrict the game to a smaller area (which isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself) you really ought to flesh that area out properly. It's a big reason why I say the game should've been given more time. If they didn't have enough time even to properly populate the small setting they chose with individual environments, then something was wrong.


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#82385
The Loyal Nub

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It's just... If you're going to restrict the game to a smaller area (which isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself) you really ought to flesh that area out properly. It's a big reason why I say the game should've been given more time. If they didn't have enough time even to properly populate the small setting they chose with individual environments, then something was wrong.

 

Static environments have been a big problem. I never feel like I am in a real living village, town, or city in these games. Hopefully they'll give us that next time. 



#82386
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Static environments have been a big problem. I never feel like I am in a real living village, town, or city in these games. Hopefully they'll give us that next time. 

There's always been some asset recycling in DA games (the random encounters in DAO and some of the buildings in DAI spring to mind) and to a degree it's understandable, but DA2 was by far the worst game of the series for that, even though it had the smallest setting.



#82387
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It's just... If you're going to restrict the game to a smaller area (which isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself) you really ought to flesh that area out properly. It's a big reason why I say the game should've been given more time. If they didn't have enough time even to properly populate the small setting they chose with individual environments, then something was wrong.

 

I agree. It's just doubly small... first for only being in Kirkwall. Then not even making Kirkwall that diverse. lol

 

 

That said, I could probably say why I like DA2 more than DAI, just comparing the intros alone, I think. That first hour tells alot. DA2 is experimenting more in it's storytelling style with Varric/Cass and the flashbacks..After that, you're thrust into a situation rarely seen: a family. The game is more personal. Moreso once you get to Kirkwall, and see the other refugees hugging each other, and Hawke put in a humbling situation.. just to get his mother inside. After that Act I is my favorite.. just scrounging for some expedition, doing silly jobs.. it's all kind of rogue-ish. Lots of potential humor in all of it too.


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#82388
The Loyal Nub

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There's always been some asset recycling in DA games (the random encounters in DAO and some of the buildings in DAI spring to mind) and to a degree it's understandable, but DA2 was by far the worst game of the series for that, even though it had the smallest setting.

 

It was but I was more referring to big lifeless cities of DA games that are sparsely populated and if you do see people they are glued to the spot they are in. I was surprised that several years after Bethesda gave us people working away, walking around, in their cities and towns that BioWare gave us such a sterile Val Royeaux. It's a bit of a disgrace actually however it was much worse in Kirkwall. Kirkwall was a big empty nothing. Having a more lively environment to do your quests in helps. A lot.



#82389
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I don't find the cities all that impressive in TES either.. (I like the towns though... they're just more believable). It's more of a tech limitation, I guess. 



#82390
SardaukarElite

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Cities are hard. There's a sensory assault going on when you're navigating the streets on a busy day that's not easy to even describe let alone simulate. BioWare cities tend to be static, Elder Scrolls have creepy mechanical puppetry going on like an amusement park, AC probably does the best job I can think of immediately.

 

There's also a sense of home or strangeness, that needs to come from the mechanics and that requires something more than a place to go and read letters or rest for an XP bonus.



#82391
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It was but I was more referring to big lifeless cities of DA games that are sparsely populated and if you do see people they are glued to the spot they are in. I was surprised that several years after Bethesda gave us people working away, walking around, in their cities and towns that BioWare gave us such a sterile Val Royeaux. It's a bit of a disgrace actually however it was much worse in Kirkwall. Kirkwall was a big empty nothing. Having a more lively environment to do your quests in helps. A lot.

I fully agree with you.  Red Cliff in DA:I was also pretty bad. It felt like it was populated by robots. Even adding dock workers that would take scheduled breaks or more people wondering around in general, it would have felt more alive. 


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#82392
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I agree. It's just doubly small... first for only being in Kirkwall. Then not even making Kirkwall that diverse. lol

 

 

That said, I could probably say why I like DA2 more than DAI, just comparing the intros alone, I think. That first hour tells alot. DA2 is experimenting more in it's storytelling style with Varric/Cass and the flashbacks..After that, you're thrust into a situation rarely seen: a family. The game is more personal. Moreso once you get to Kirkwall, and see the other refugees hugging each other, and Hawke put in a humbling situation.. just to get his mother inside. After that Act I is my favorite.. just scrounging for some expedition, doing silly jobs.. it's all kind of rogue-ish. Lots of potential humor in all of it too.

I like both introductions. They are different stories, and I like both styles, to be honest. I like variety. Again, though, I get back to the environments. in DA2 It was supposed to be blight-ravaged countryside, but it felt more like some alien planet to me. I think it needed more work. More signs of what it had been. I didn't feel right that it looked so denuded of vegetation at a time so early in the blight that the Hawkes could still escape. I'd've preferred something more like the Exalted Plains in DAI (Obviously within the limits of the engine...)



#82393
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If you notice, the NPCs in DA2 are extremely low res (and it seems even in DAI.. like some NPCs seem smooth skinned, without extra textures.. like scars or such). Just the graphics alone are taxing.. then if you couple environmental activity or characters doing random things, then AI is taxing things too. I don't think Bioware can pull off the level of realism we'd really want.

 

I don't know what DAI looks on old consoles, but I heard it's stripped down even further.



#82394
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I like both introductions. They are different stories, and I like both styles, to be honest. I like variety. Again, though, I get back to the environments. in DA2 It was supposed to be blight-ravaged countryside, but it felt more like some alien planet to me. I think it needed more work. More signs of what it had been. I didn't feel right that it looked so denuded of vegetation at a time so early in the blight that the Hawkes could still escape. I'd've preferred something more like the Exalted Plains in DAI (Obviously within the limits of the engine...)

 

I was gonna add one other thing.

 

Hawke as a merc is much more believable than Inquisitor merc. The story just flows better even on this small detail.

 

All you're doing is impressing Varric and your history in the past year. And the only goal is a humble one: earn some cash for the Expedition. And no Act I NPCs care much about you otherwise. Petrice thinks you're a nobody.

 

 

Here, a Merc is impressing everyone and boosted to godhood, social/political dictator status in under an hour.



#82395
raging_monkey

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If you notice, the NPCs in DA2 are extremely low res (and it seems even in DAI.. like some NPCs seem smooth skinned, without extra textures.. like scars or such). Just the graphics alone are taxing.. then if you couple environmental activity or characters doing random things, then AI is taxing things too. I don't think Bioware can pull off the level of realism we'd really want.
 
I don't know what DAI looks on old consoles, but I heard it's stripped down even further.

its pretty stripped down and not the good kind of stripped down

#82396
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its pretty stripped down and not the good kind of stripped down

 

Is that what you play on?

 

Because... I wish I could help. Moreso than your request about Swtor subs. :D



#82397
raging_monkey

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Is that what you play on?
 
Because... I wish I could help. Moreso than your request about Swtor subs. :D

i play on 360 and its pretty cartoony. I mean me3 looks next gen in comparison. Its good but i sense it could've been pushed over 9000
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#82398
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i play on 360 and its pretty cartoony. I mean me3 looks next gen in comparison. Its good but i sense it could've been pushed over 9000

 

I figured that might be the case (looking worse than ME3).

 

I was gonna say earlier, that Neverwinter game will either be XOne or PS4. So you don't have to get an XBox if you don't want.



#82399
raging_monkey

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I figured that might be the case (looking worse than ME3).
 
I was gonna say earlier, that Neverwinter game will either be XOne or PS4. So you don't have to get an XBox if you don't want.

im going X1 cause i have a ton of stuff in comparison to sony. Ill probably upgrade in apr or may... i need NW

#82400
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im going X1 cause i have a ton of stuff in comparison to sony. Ill probably upgrade in apr or may... i need NW

 

I'm liking X1. Probably will get a PS4 sooner or later, but this is the first time I could do without another console.