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Sera "The Artful Dodger" discussion thread - V2 (now with more V1)


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#82426
Bowie Hawkins

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No... it means that they accepted the political situation. 

 

Exactly. By that point in the game, the Inquisition is too powerful to say no to - the Orlesian army is still too bloodied from the civil war; the Chantry has no military power; and the Templars are either eradicated or working for the Inquisitor. 



#82427
YourFunnyUncle

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Lets just say I wonder if I'm a heretic..I've called myself that. it's kind of why I like Cass in this game. She says the same thing.

That's also why i like Cass way more than I expected to based on DA2...



#82428
raging_monkey

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I love cass just so in control

#82429
Guest_John Wayne_*

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Good thing too because feeding an army that size... Yikes!

 

Not to mention what rations were likely to be in such a setting...

 

Spoiler

I bet those things sit in your stomach like a brick. lol



#82430
YourFunnyUncle

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I love cass just so in control

I don't know about that... She loses her temper pretty easily, but she does tend to reassess her initial reactions afterwards and isn't afraid to admit her mistakes which I respect a lot.



#82431
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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This is more complicated for me to talk about than I thought. I don't even know if I'm articulating anything right. Surprised you followed me this far.

 

One other thing I need to get off my chest is that I think Thedas deserves better heroes than this TES like one. It's so open ended on our end that it kind of saddens me. It means the whole setting and lore is at the mercy of... just anyone. There used to be boundaries on who the hero was. There are less boundaries and narrative rules now... but the hero is far more powerful than anything before.

 

In effect, this means some redneck who picked up DAI at Walmart can pull out out a random story out of his ass, and is justified as much as anyone else. There aren't that many limits to who his character is. Every kind of character is free to control and mangle the setting.



#82432
Guest_Danielle100_*

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Well the puppy had his check up today and the vet is happy with how well he's doing, he still has another week of meds but things are looking good, I'm thrilled. :). His sister was so mad at me for taking him, when we got back she looked him over really well and started yelling at me something fierce.

Edit: so thrilled I can't spell it. :lol:
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#82433
The Loyal Nub

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Well the puppy had his check up today and the vet is happy with how well he's doing, he still has another week of meds but things are looking good, I'm trilled. :). His sister was so mad at me for taking him, when we got back she looked him over really well and started yelling at me something fierce.

 

Oh that's great news Danielle! So pleased to hear he's doing good now. At least she yelled at you. We take our male cat to the vet and one of his sisters hisses at him when he returns for at least a 24 hour period!  :lol:



#82434
Guest_Danielle100_*

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That's also why i like Cass way more than I expected to based on DA2...


I loved Cass from DA2 sometimes it still hurts.

#82435
Aimi

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Not to mention what rations were likely to be in such a setting...


lol rations

the army is camping out ON A GLACIER

where is it going to get hardtack from? the handy railroad that connects Skyhold to the Orlesian Heartlands? the river barges that can go up waterfalls into the mountains?

#82436
Guest_John Wayne_*

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Well the puppy had his check up today and the vet is happy with how well he's doing, he still has another week of meds but things are looking good, I'm trilled. :). His sister was so mad at me for taking him, when we got back she looked him over really well and started yelling at me something fierce.

Good to hear that your pup is doing better. Might have to slip his sis a treat when he is not looking if she was that unhappy. lol



#82437
LightningPoodle

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Well the puppy had his check up today and the vet is happy with how well he's doing, he still has another week of meds but things are looking good, I'm trilled. :). His sister was so mad at me for taking him, when we got back she looked him over really well and started yelling at me something fierce.

 

I'm really happy for you and your puppy. I told you everything would be alright... I think I'm a wizard.  :P 

 

Sounds like sisterly love to me.  :lol:



#82438
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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lol rations

the army is camping out ON A GLACIER

where is it going to get hardtack from? the handy railroad that connects Skyhold to the Orlesian Heartlands? the river barges that can go up waterfalls into the mountains?

 

Didn't you know? Hardtack is just.... dirt. There's food everywhere! Eat up.



#82439
Guest_Danielle100_*

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Good to hear that your pup is doing better. Might have to slip his sis a treat when he is not looking if she was that unhappy. lol


I'm weak, I slipped them both a treat. :)
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#82440
The Loyal Nub

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lol rations

the army is camping out ON A GLACIER

where is it going to get hardtack from? the handy railroad that connects Skyhold to the Orlesian Heartlands? the river barges that can go up waterfalls into the mountains?

 

You do get a supply route option (war table mission) into the frostbacks early in the game. As you get more control in Orlais and Ferelden I can easily see food being supplied to/sold to the Inquisition. 

 

Ram also seems plentiful just outside Skyhold.  :lol:



#82441
raging_monkey

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Well the puppy had his check up today and the vet is happy with how well he's doing, he still has another week of meds but things are looking good, I'm trilled. :). His sister was so mad at me for taking him, when we got back she looked him over really well and started yelling at me something fierce.

that is great news

#82442
Lady Luminous

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I'm weak, I slipped them both a treat. :)

 

I'm so happy for you Dani, that's really greta news. <3 Give them both a snuggle for me.



#82443
YourFunnyUncle

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This is more complicated for me to talk about than I thought. I don't even know if I'm articulating anything right. Surprised you followed me this far.

 

One other thing I need to get off my chest is that I think Thedas deserves better heroes than this TES like one. It's so open ended on our end that it kind of saddens me. It means the whole setting and lore is at the mercy of... just anyone. There used to be boundaries on who the hero was. There are less boundaries and narrative rules now... but the hero is far more powerful than anything before.

 

In effect, this means some redneck who picked up DAI at Walmart can pull out out a random story out of his ass, and is justified as much as anyone else. There aren't that many limits to who his character is. Every kind of character is free to control and mangle the setting.

That's cool. I don't have to agree with someone about everything to enjoy talking with them if they are polite and respectful, and you are. 

 

I think that perhaps the Inquisitor has actually had less effect than it might initially seem. Various people can be in power and various factions have been weakened, but all can rebuild, and will probably have the ability to do so as we move north for the next game, leaving only subtle differences by the time we return to southern Thedas, if we ever do.



#82444
LightningPoodle

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I'm so happy for you Dani, that's really greta news. <3 Give them both a snuggle for me.

 

And from me. If you don't mind of course. A hug from a Poodle... think of the scandal!  :lol:  :P



#82445
Basement Cat

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lol rations

the army is camping out ON A GLACIER

where is it going to get hardtack from? the handy railroad that connects Skyhold to the Orlesian Heartlands? the river barges that can go up waterfalls into the mountains?

Hey, it's not my fault they're more interested in the rule of cool than the rule of real. A castle in the snowy mountains yet with a thriving garden. *shrug*

 

You do get a supply route option (war table mission) into the frostbacks early in the game. As you get more control in Orlais and Ferelden I can easily see food being supplied to/sold to the Inquisition. 

 

Ram also seems plentiful just outside Skyhold:lol:

It even gets delivered to the door in a certain mission!


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#82446
Aimi

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You do get a supply route option (war table mission) into the frostbacks early in the game. As you get more control in Orlais and Ferelden I can easily see food being supplied to/sold to the Inquisition. 
 
Ram also seems plentiful just outside Skyhold.  :lol:


Premodern military supply didn't work that way. Overland food supply was paltry before railroads reduced transport costs; virtually all premodern armies had to be primarily supplied by the territory they camped in. That's why they'd make winter quarters in fertile valleys. Humping the majority of food - in addition to all other trade - over mountain passes would be ridiculous. Even movements on campaign were significantly dictated by supply: armies couldn't stay in mountains or deserts for very long, because the amount of food that could be carried with them was very very limited. Quartering on a mountain - above the tree line, no less - would be insane.

Even riverine and littoral food transport was costly, and doing it in large quantities was a severe financial strain on even some of the world's greatest powers. Rome spent insane amounts of money supplying its vast armies on the Rhine with British grain; the Chinese empires broke the bank building, maintaining, and expanding the Grand Canal partly so that their northern armies could have access to fertile Jiangnan. These were the cheap options; by and large, supplying military forces with rations they were not able to gather themselves locally was out of the question until the advent of the railroad.

The point is, the setting isn't designed with military supply in mind, but rather with other entirely valid things, like rule of cool and "nobody really knows this stuff anyway so it's not worth incorporating it". So inferring other details about the setting based on real world analogy is silly; it should just be taken prima facie. At least, that's my opinion.
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#82447
YourFunnyUncle

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Yeah, I don't think real-world military logistics were taken into consideration when choosing Skyhold as our base of operations...



#82448
The Loyal Nub

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Premodern military supply didn't work that way. Overland food supply was paltry before railroads reduced transport costs; virtually all premodern armies had to be primarily supplied by the territory they camped in. That's why they'd make winter quarters in fertile valleys. Humping the majority of food - in addition to all other trade - over mountain passes would be ridiculous. Even movements on campaign were significantly dictated by supply: armies couldn't stay in mountains or deserts for very long, because the amount of food that could be carried with them was very very limited. Quartering on a mountain - above the tree line, no less - would be insane.

Even riverine and littoral food transport was costly, and doing it in large quantities was a severe financial strain on even some of the world's greatest powers. Rome spent insane amounts of money supplying its vast armies on the Rhine with British grain; the Chinese empires broke the bank building, maintaining, and expanding the Grand Canal partly so that their northern armies could have access to fertile Jiangnan. These were the cheap options; by and large, supplying military forces with rations they were not able to gather themselves locally was out of the question until the advent of the railroad.

The point is, the setting isn't designed with military supply in mind, but rather with other entirely valid things, like rule of cool and "nobody really knows this stuff anyway so it's not worth incorporating it". So inferring other details about the setting based on real world analogy is silly; it should just be taken prima facie. At least, that's my opinion.

 

I was aware of the historical problems of military supply however I was discussing a video game. I did not realize we were discussing pre-modern military supply and transport in reality. My bad.



#82449
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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That's cool. I don't have to agree with someone about everything to enjoy talking with them if they are polite and respectful, and you are. 

 

I think that perhaps the Inquisitor has actually had less effect than it might initially seem. Various people can be in power and various factions have been weakened, but all can rebuild, and will probably have the ability to do so as we move north for the next game, leaving only subtle differences by the time we return to southern Thedas, if we ever do.

 

I hope you're right. But this puts the whole series on standby for me for now. I won't play in a setting left at the mercy of players to this extent. Some love this stuff, but I don't.  I want the setting at the mercy of the writers first. The big factions, especially. Not at the mercy of godlike characters with random backgrounds and any player motivation. This can be fun from my own perspective, but when I think about the integrity of the series... no. It stinks.

 

I would enjoy it more if the players had their hands tied a bit. Like with Hawke, I didn't think about the Redneck from Walmart.  Ever. He was forced to stick to a well thought out character, just because the game was designed that way. The Warden in many ways too. The Redneck was constrained.. his brand of fiction limited. lol. Better writers did his job.



#82450
The Loyal Nub

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Hey, it's not my fault they're more interested in the rule of cool than the rule of real. A castle in the snowy mountains yet with a thriving garden. *shrug*

 

It even gets delivered to the door in a certain mission!

 

That might put a whole new perspective on how my next Inquisitor judges that case.  :lol:


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