100543 réponses à ce sujet

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'm out of likes today, but I totally like that you agree with me.

Joke aside, I really never thought of this before, it just occurred to me as a vage idea when catching up on the Solas thread. So I was not sure, but the more I think about it, I actually do believe this is where the animosity might come from. Sera does not simply adore and like us for being there, but only if we act in a way she considers appropriate. Other NPCs will only dislike us for being a jerk. But she will dislike us much more naturally if she thinks we don't live up to our role. (And this is another thought I've not played with before... Sera can develop a negative opinion of the protagonist in a much more natural fashion than other NPCs.)

And it is indeed nice that you think this theory is not too far off.

You can actually say similar of Vivienne, who also gets a lot of hate. If she thinks that the Inquisitor is screwing up then she will say so in no uncertain terms. They have very different core wold views in some ways, but as Cat and I have pointed out on a few occasions, they've more in common than I think that either would be happy to admit...

[veeia]

Yeah wrt to Viv, I'm aware people don't like her and I'm totally understanding of that, like I am with people who don't like Sera, because she often serves an antagonist role and some people only want to experience the game on an id level, which is their right. . It's when people frame their dislike of her using sexist and racist language or tropes that I lose respect. It's when people who stan over male characters and explain away their faults while bashing Sera and Viv (and claim to be addressing the text critically) that I lose respect.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Sera may claim not to like woodlands and nature, but look! The birds do not fear her!

 

[jlb524]

Yes, that is what I meant. If you think Sera would be better liked if available to a male inquisitor. Because it reminded me of that weird thread a while ago, which was started by a guy who was hurt at her turning him down and who then went on to insult her.

 

I think she would be better liked by some if this was the case but not all.

 

There are a bunch of factors that go into whether or not a character is hated and they vary from person to person.  For some, the main thing might be "I can't romance her" with others it might be "she don't respect muh authoritay" and in an another it might be both of those things or something else entirely.

[Basement Cat]

Sera may claim not to like woodlands and nature, but look! The birds do not fear her!

 

*snip*

Proof that Sera and Shale would not get along. That bird sure is pretty though.

[veeia]

Oh my god though, Sera and Shale. Now that's another party banter set I dearly want to hear. I feel like Shale would insult Sera and Sera would insult her back and they'd be slightly amused but also annoyed, but then they'd bond over insulting someone else, like Solas. 

[FemHawke FTW]

Sera may claim not to like woodlands and nature, but look! The birds do not fear her!
 

Sera likes birds cause they s**t on everybody equally.

[Inverse_Twilight]

I never understood all the hate that Sera gets from people on the forums and YouTube and such. I think she is delightful. I agree that part of it has to do with her questioning the inquisitor. Some people can't stand it when npcs disagree with them or question them in any way. I cant stand when people tear down a character for stupid reasons though. I have seen plenty of people upset because Sera is a lesbian. I try to ignore those people for the most part, but they can get rather nasty. I hate it when people get angry because a character is not changing to suit them. The character was not written that way, get over yourself.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I've wondered about whether Sera would be better liked if she was available to both quizzy genders. I can see why some might think so but I don't believe it's necessarily that black-and-white. Like J said a few posts above, it comes down to a number of different factors. She might have more fans if she wasn't exclusively F/F, but the hate would probably still be there in some form.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Proof that Sera and Shale would not get along. That bird sure is pretty though.

It is, as is the Frostback Basin DLC area in general, although I am confused as to why an area on the extreme southern edge of the map has such tropical flora and fauna. I thought that Thedas was supposed to be in the southern hemisphere of its planet, and that therefore south meant cold. That's why the Tevinter and Rivaini folk have darker skins and complain about the cold in Ferelden...

[Inverse_Twilight]

It is, as is the Frostback Basin DLC area in general, although I am confused as to why an area on the extreme southern edge of the map has such tropical flora and fauna. I thought that Thedas was supposed to be in the southern hemisphere of its planet, and that therefore south meant cold. That's why the Tevinter and Rivaini folk have darker skins and complain about the cold in Ferelden...

I really liked the new Frostback Basin area, but now that I think about it, it doesnt really make sense for it to be tropical. When I think of Frostbacks, I think about the mountains and snow around haven. I still like it, but that is just weird.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I really liked the new Frostback Basin area, but now that I think about it, it doesnt really make sense for it to be tropical. When I think of Frostbacks, I think about the mountains and snow around haven. I still like it, but that is just weird.

Yup. It's cool but it just doesn't fit with the geography of Thedas. To be fair it's not the only area that has caused me to raise an eyebrow in terms of its climate, but it's probably the most obviously off...

[veeia]

Frostback Basin is a very confusing area, but it's pretty and done well, and fictional geography is not something I care about so much (let's be clear I have my own weird picky areas outside of that though so I would understand someone side-eyeing it ) so I'm not bothered by it at all.

[YourFunnyUncle]

As I say it's a beautiful area, and it's not that I'm bothered to the extent that I'm put off from playing or anything, but it's a niggling inconsistency that irks me a little...

[Inverse_Twilight]

I think my Inky was too busy running from spiders to really think about it.

Omg, those spiders are the bane of my existence! They always seem to attack me when I have one potion left and half my party is dead (killed by Hakkonite jerks). They wipe my party out in a minute flat. I hate them so much.

[veeia]

As I say it's a beautiful area, and it's not that I'm bothered to the extent that I'm put off from playing or anything, but it's a niggling inconsistency that irks me a little...

 

Nods yeah, for sure, we all have those things because Dragon Age is full of those haha.  

[Xilizhra]

Yes, that is what I meant. If you think Sera would be better liked if available to a male inquisitor. Because it reminded me of that weird thread a while ago, which was started by a guy who was hurt at her turning him down and who then went on to insult her.

 

Anyway, I don't think her being a women or lesbian is the reason (except for a few weirdos maybe). I think it's just what many people pointed out in different threads: certain traits of character are accepted/tolerated for men but judged much more negatively in women. A man passing rough judgement is a strong leader, a woman doing the same is a heartless ******. Etc. That's stereotypes and prejudices society inflicts on us and no matter how we try to get rid of them, too many people cling to them without actually being aware of it. 

 

And I think (the debate in the Solas thread a bit earlier made me think about this), it's because Sera actually questions the almighty protagonist. Many people think they know it all and are the ultimate authority with the most brilliant tactical mind (in the game at least). So when somebody else (especially just an NPC, a bunch of pixels) questions them, even acts like Sera does (the scene after the Temple was mentioned, when she points an arrow at you), they feel personally attacked.

Well, Sera aiming an arrow at you is a personal attack, just as much as someone in a modern setting pulling a gun on you.

[veeia]

Sera doesn't pull an arrow on you, she pulls one on your PC, which is the distinction Siha (I believe, given their reference to Sera as a bunch of pixels) was making.

 

Is it the smartest way to confront someone or try to figure out what the hell happened? Not at all. But Sera doesn't have a sophisticated way of dealing with weird, old magic stuff. And to be honest, the game needed at least one person to react that way.  I'm not going to defend her and say it was TOTALLY COOL, but I mean....in universe it makes sense that people would fear the Inquisitor after that because drinking from the Well of Sorrows is a big, uncertain deal, and Sera is a good person to portray that with. Her actions don't have to make the player happy to have meaning. 

 

I get that a lot of people feel personally connected to their Quizzie and experience it as "Sera attacked ME, Blackwall lied to ME, Solas dumped ME", and that's fine. But it gets tiresome to fans of the character when people can't ever distance themselves enough to talk about the character's perspective or why it might make sense or be compelling outside of BETRAYAL!!! 

[Xilizhra]

Sera doesn't pull an arrow on you, she pulls one on your PC, which is the distinction Siha (I believe, given their reference to Sera as a bunch of pixels) was making.

 

Is it the smartest way to confront someone or try to figure out what the hell happened? Not at all. But Sera doesn't have a sophisticated way of dealing with weird, old magic stuff. And to be honest, the game needed at least one person to react that way.  I'm not going to defend her and say it was TOTALLY COOL, but I mean....in universe it makes sense that people would fear the Inquisitor after that because drinking from the Well of Sorrows is a big, uncertain deal, and Sera is a good person to portray that with. Her actions don't have to make the player happy to have meaning. 

 

I get that a lot of people feel personally connected to their Quizzie and experience it as "Sera attacked ME, Blackwall lied to ME, Solas dumped ME", and that's fine. But it gets tiresome to fans of the character when people can't ever distance themselves enough to talk about the character's perspective or why it might make sense or be compelling outside of BETRAYAL!!! 

I actually don't really have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is being unable to adequately react to it, because that kind of thing would absolutely warrant a defensive posture and possibly a bit of offensive magic if one happens to be a mage. That's my primary frustration with Sera, a major one with Vivienne, and probably something fueling a hell of a lot of the hatedom: you can't do anything about it. I mean, you can kick her out of the Inquisition, but to my knowledge, you can't cite any given thing as a reason for it, and you can't engage her in an actual argument with much of anything, despite her deliberately controversial writing. Sera can be immensely frustrating as a character, and to be honest, I won't blame her hatedom for feeling that way.

[veeia]

Can't you tell Sera never to do that again though? And honestly reacting with offensive magic when someone is trying to ascertain whether or not you've been possessed seems like a bad decision. Which ok, sure I'm for people being able to make bad decisions, but I'm not convinced that would add more to what that scene is trying to do. Maybe I'm wrong! But I can think of a lot of other places, even in that scene itself, where I would prefer more options than than that part specifically.

I'll agree Sera (along with most companions) doesn't give you a wide range of reactions, including ones that people would sorely want. And I do agree I don't blame people for being frustrated with that. I honestly try to stay away from Sera hate places because 1) it can be upsetting and 2) it's designated for people who hate her and that's not me. I think my main interest here is not so much defend Sera!!! as the overall frustration that characters who do things that are "not likeable" or antagonistic are viewed as a bad thing for the game overall. Like I hate Solas's comments about certain things and I'm frustrated I can't respond to them, but I don't think Solas as a character who says things that upset me is a detriment to the game. I think its a good thing and something there should be more of. And with more reactivity, yes, but not so that the PC can come out on top, but so that the topics can be explored with more depth.

[Xilizhra]

Well, I finally got the rooftop cookies scene with my Josephine-romancing elf (I just can't get into a qunari as much, somehow; I'm tied closely to elves). And... honestly, it frustrates me even more, because I really like Sera in that scene and would love to be romancing her then, but I know that if I did that, it'd ultimately boil down to having to repudiate my own heritage to keep things going, and that's just not worth it...

[Serza]

Sabrae Clan was actually only named such in DA2, the guidebook for DA:O apparently calls the Warden's clan 'Mahariel Clan.' 

 

Now that they've changed the name...yeah, I think Mahariel taking her mother's clan name seems like the most logical explanation. 

 

I see... What a mess, yeah?

[Rel Fexive]

I actually don't really have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is being unable to adequately react to it, because that kind of thing would absolutely warrant a defensive posture and possibly a bit of offensive magic if one happens to be a mage. That's my primary frustration with Sera, a major one with Vivienne, and probably something fueling a hell of a lot of the hatedom: you can't do anything about it. I mean, you can kick her out of the Inquisition, but to my knowledge, you can't cite any given thing as a reason for it, and you can't engage her in an actual argument with much of anything, despite her deliberately controversial writing. Sera can be immensely frustrating as a character, and to be honest, I won't blame her hatedom for feeling that way.

 

"That's my primary frustration with Sera"

 

Incorrect.

 

"That's my primary frustration with how they wrote Sera in that particular scene and with the dialogue options presented"

 

Accurate.