100544 réponses à ce sujet

[Rel Fexive]

Merrill, but really, the characterization job for everyone in that game was quite a bit better than the games before and after. That was the biggest plus for me.

 

Loved Merrill.  It helped that she has the voice of Eve Myles.  She is dangerously naive about the costs of power, though, while also somehow being more aware of them than most.

 

In some ways the DA2 characters got slightly deeper/better attention in DA2, possibly because it was supposed to be all about how things change over time, maybe.  Everyone got to develop a fair bit really.

 

Many things exist in life that don't have to be repeated in video games.

 

I think of all the things that could be repeated from real life, relationship difficulties are the least of our worries.  And the romances might seem quite bland if they were all easy to get and easier to keep.  There should be some work involved (for a given definition of work, from a game which just requires the selecting of dialogue choices) and some drama so you can feel like you've achieved something in making that special non-existent person express a happiness animation.

 

Something which, incidentally, gives me a silly warm feeling inside.

[SardaukarElite]

DA2 companions got more face time I believe, which would help.

 

I think the fact that you know them for 7 years helps as well.  It's easier to show someone like Isabela change/grow when it's happening over a long time span.  If the game was only over the course of a year, Isabela couldn't have had that growth.

 

I just don't think the change and/or growth you're looking for is realistic in the short timespan the PC knows Sera.  She can change a bit but if you want something more significant...I think that might take longer.

 

I think DA2's tight focus on six companions over DA:I's loose focus on nine is important. Also that DA2 had a friendship / rivalry dynamic, which while mechanically the same as approval provided a much more satisfying exploration of an antagonistic relationship.

 

Which feeds into the change thing. Sera could change, or she might not, but as is the relationship is one of accepting her as is or not. There's no middle ground or nuance in it - beyond a Dalish flipping out and leaving.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think DA2's tight focus on six companions over DA:I's loose focus on nine is important. Also that DA2 had a friendship / rivalry dynamic, which while mechanically the same as approval provided a much more satisfying exploration of an antagonistic relationship.

 

Which feeds into the change thing. Sera could change, or she might not, but as is the relationship is one of accepting her as is or not. There's no middle ground or nuance in it - beyond a Dalish flipping out and leaving.

Makes me wonder if this is a consequence of the removal of DA2's F/R system. Of all the companions in this game, Sera could have probably benefited from a 'rival' romance path the most. As it turns out, there's no such thing: it's an either-or scenario.

[ComedicSociopathy]

The problem with DA 2's rivarly/friendship is that you couldn't be nuanced about it. It was either one or the other and any kind middle ground resulted in your companions possibly turning on you at the end. If Hawke wanted to be in rivalry with Anders then they'd have drag him around whenever you decided to screw over a mage or help Meredith. DA 2 may have had only 7 companions but since I and most people only used a fixed team in their games the other three would be neglected and usually would only gain rivalry/friendship points from conversations, which on their own wouldn't be enough to fill the bar. Yes, you get different relationships and romances but it came at the expense at all the other characters in the party who you weren't focusing on. 

 

Inquisition had over 9 companions and yet I still managed to be a lot more successfully at getting a high approval score with most of them. That probably comes with the fact that whenever you make major decisions or a judgement your companions will react to even though they weren't there. That has pretty much always my problem with DA 2, the need to drag all companions everywhere you went to get approval from them. Got annoying real fast. 

[SardaukarElite]

Makes me wonder if this is a consequence of the removal of DA2's F/R system. Of all the companions in this game, Sera could have probably benefited from a 'rival' romance path the most. As it turns out, there's no such thing: it's an either-or scenario.

 

I'm not sure that the F/R system would work for Sera, it had issues. In particular it didn't track multiple issues well, which is part of the thing with Sera and her Dalish disdain.

 

As is though I feel playing her romance is - enjoyable branching dialogue - aside not much more than agreeing to continue at set intervals.

 

 

The problem with DA 2's rivarly/friendship is that you couldn't be nuanced about it. It was either one or the other and any kind middle ground resulted in your companions possibly turning on you at the end. If Hawke wanted to be in rivalry with Anders then they'd have drag him around whenever you decided to screw over a mage or help Meredith. DA 2 may have had only 7 companions but since I and most people only used a fixed team in their games the other three would be neglected and usually would only gain rivalry/friendship points from conversations, which on their own wouldn't be enough to fill the bar. Yes, you get different relationships and romances but it came at the expense at all the other characters in the party who you weren't focusing on. 

 

Sure. I think you could fix some of the mathematical issues fairly easily. Firstly by firstly tracking F and R separately and then using the highest in checks so agreeing that slavery is bad doesn't undermine your Fenris rivalmance with Che Hawke. Secondly by reducing most of the thresholds or just flat out not checking against 50 / 70 and 100 percent R/F for firing quests because that was silly.

 

But it's not going to be perfect. What I like about it though is that relationships at least try to react to who my character is, which I didn't feel about DA:I or O or any other BioWare game really.

[Rel Fexive]

It could just track friend and rival regardless of whether that person was with you or not, the same as approval in DAI.

[ComedicSociopathy]

But it's not going to be perfect. What I like about it though is that relationships at least try to react to who my character is, which I didn't feel about DA:I or O or any other BioWare game really.

 

Oh, they react to you all right in Origins and Inquisition, and it can be summed up in a single phrase.

 

"My way or the highway, Warden/Inquisitor." 

[veeia]

The F/R was a good idea to try to compensate for the fact that people who respect eachother and work together often disagree, but it wasn't that great. I would prefer this system with more responses tbh.

[AresKeith]

The F/R was a good idea to try to compensate for the fact that people who respect eachother and work together often disagree, but it wasn't that great. I would prefer this system with more responses tbh.

 

I feel like that system would've work in DAI with a few people than DA2

[veeia]

I think it could have been refined instead of tossed , but clearly they disagreed and I think it's probably gone for good now, unless for some reason Weekes was a big closet fan of it.

I will say that I think they did a good job giving good content on a "disapproval" path for several characters. I haven't hit them all nor do I know if there are even convos like that for everyone? But I thought they were well written and it was fun to play the game with a character those companions hated when the first character had loved them, it gave me a different perspective that I enjoyed...they weren't just throw away "I hate you bye" convos. At least Solas's, which I've triggered like three times and thus remember best haha, isn't.

[AresKeith]

Personally I felt the DA2 companions should have left you if they hated you (or full Rivalry )

[Duelist]

 

X

[YourFunnyUncle]

Random Sera screenshot bump.

 

[Serza]

Random Sera screenshot bump.

 

 

Nope. Can't see this too many times.

 

I might have a few good videos, even from the romance, but... Yeah. Seranaders know why I can't post them.

[o Ventus]

[Rel Fexive]

Nope. Can't see this too many times.

 

I might have a few good videos, even from the romance, but... Yeah. Seranaders know why I can't post them.

 

*looks at screenshot folder*

 

I think I have an inkling.

[FemHawke FTW]

 
X

Well, in Skyhold
They say
That Leliana's
Hardened heart
Grew three sizes
That day

[draken-heart]

 

X

 

Uh, Sera, that might not be a good idea.

[Sunnie]

No, my primary frustration is the inability to establish any kind of reasonable dialogue on the subject. Something that this conversation seems to be mirroring.

I seem to remember you had much the same problem with Liara, and maybe a couple others back in the day. I also remember your being involved in quite a few not-so-tame arguments over those subjects. While I'm not saying that you don't have a right to want the characters you want, I would assume that after all these years you would have figured out that BioWare is not going to make characters tailor made for you, or me, or anyone else. I believe it would benefit you if you just accepted that characters are going to be shallow, since they are game characters in games that span a short timeline.

Honestly, the kind of development you are looking for generally only happens over many, many stories or episodes. Hell, look at Shepard, even after 3 entire games, she's still pretty shallow and almost completely 2 dimensional. Just enjoy these games for what they are, small diversions from real life, I don't think you are going to get the complex life/relationship simulation you are looking for in any game you play in the next 20 years.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I seem to remember you had much the same problem with Liara, and maybe a couple others back in the day. I also remember your being involved in quite a few not-so-tame arguments over those subjects. While I'm not saying that you don't have a right to want the characters you want, I would assume that after all these years you would have figured out that BioWare is not going to make characters tailor made for you, or me, or anyone else. I believe it would benefit you if you just accepted that characters are going to be shallow, since they are game characters in games that span a short timeline.

Honestly, the kind of development you are looking for generally only happens over many, many stories or episodes. Hell, look at Shepard, even after 3 entire games, she's still pretty shallow and almost completely 2 dimensional. Just enjoy these games for what they are, small diversions from real life, I don't think you are going to get the complex life/relationship simulation you are looking for in any game you play in the next 20 years.

+10

[Serza]

*looks at screenshot folder*

 

I think I have an inkling.

 

Hah, screenshots! I have entire videos!

 

(Because I didn't put the game on through Steam, and ShadowPlay doesn't allow screenshotting...)

 

Uh, Sera, that might not be a good idea.

 

Oh, I'm sure it's a great idea. They become friends of sorts eventually, if you get the Skyhold banter (which I never did, sadly)

And Leli needs friends. Sera is fun. Sera with her Friends network can also do a job similar to a Bard. There are still differences, but at the end of the day, both can gather intelligence.

[WildOrchid]

 

 

 

X

 

 

[YourFunnyUncle]

 

Source.

[YourFunnyUncle]

 

Source.