100552 réponses à ce sujet

[Bowie Hawkins]

For another, the religions aren't actually inherently incompatible; Ameridan fuses them just fine.

 

That's not true - "There is no god but the Maker" has been a fundamental aspect of Andrastianism for as long as there have been Dragon Age games.

[The Loyal Nub]

Sera is a believer but it's fair to compare her with what Cassandra says about Varric i.e. that he is devout but won't set foot in a Chantry. I suspect the same of Sera.

[YourFunnyUncle]

"And say the other bit. 'You'd get it if you were smarter. If you understood what it meant to be elven'."

That's part of the dialogue from the scene with Sera after the Well, and it shows that she's had other women (including other elven women) that she loved leave her for not being smart enough, or elfy enough, or both. So she's got legitimate reasons to be afraid that the Inquisitor is going to do that to her also.

This is what I was driving at. Her faith is is just part of the reason for her outburst. Her ideological problems are broader than a clash of deities, it's also about her distrust of elves who in her view tell her how to think and separate themselves from the rest of theodosian society while insisting that they are right.

[Bowie Hawkins]

This is what I was driving at. Her faith is is just part of the reason for her outburst. Her ideological problems are broader than a clash of deities, it's also about her distrust of elves who in her view tell her how to think and separate themselves from the rest of theodosian society while insisting that they are right.

 

You wrote "I don't think that Sera is by any stretch of the imagination 'devout'". Nothing of what you quoted in your reply had anything to do with whether or not Sera is devout.

 

If you want to argue that there is more to the scene than just that the elven faith and Andrastianism are mutually incompatible, then you're totally right about that. But the argument of yours that I was replying to was the one you made about whether Sera is a devout believer in Andrastianism.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I'd never characterize Sera as devout or even that much of a believer in Andrastianism, or at least the Chantry's version of Andrastianism. I mean, the first time you meet her she states that finds you being the Herald of Andraste to be a bunch of rubbish and says the exact same thing after you encounter Corypheus. She flat out tells you that she thinks the Golden City and the magisters are all nonsense and couldn't possibly be true, finding hard it to even admit that the Maker might a real thing as well. That's like a Catholic saying that the resurrection of Christ is make believe.

 

Then again, in banters she tells Cass that she believes in the Maker but only in some of it, which parts we never really find out. But then she disapproves of a Inquisitor that wants the Inquisition stand for faith In Your Heart Shall Burn and slightly disapproves with Solas if the Inquisitor decided that faith guided them into picking the the flags in Champions of the Just. 

 

To me it feels like Sera doesn't genuinely care for Andrastianism and only accepts because she was taught to her at a young age. Her meltdown after the Temple of Mythal and suggestion that the elven gods can't be actual gods since the Maker is the only god that exists in Chantry doctrine feels more like her just using it an excuse to disregard the whole thing and not think about it. She does the same thing after the Fade.

 

"It's all demons, so I don't have to think about it or be scaried."

 

That's pretty much it.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'd never characterize Sera as devout or even that much of a believer in Andrastianism, or at least the Chantry's version of Andrastianism. I mean, the first time you meet her she states that finds you being the Herald of Andraste to be a bunch of rubbish and says the exact same thing after you encounter Corypheus. She flat out tells you that she thinks the Golden City and the magisters are all nonsense and couldn't possibly be true, finding hard it to even admit that the Maker might a real thing as well. That's like a Catholic saying that the resurrection of Christ is make believe.

 

Then again, in banters she tells Cass that believes in the Maker but only in some of it, which parts we never really find out. But then she disapproves of a Inquisitor that wants the Inquisition stand for faith In Your Heart Shall Burn and slightly disapproves with Solas if the Inquisitor decided that faith guided them into picking the the flags in Champions of the Just. 

 

To me it feels like Sera doesn't genuinely care for Andrastianism and only accepts because she was taught to her at a young age. Her meltdown after the Temple of Mythal and suggestion that the elven gods can't be actual gods since the Maker is the only god that exists in Chantry doctrine feels more like her just using it an excuse to disregard the whole thing and not think about it. She does the same thing after the Fade.

 

"It's all demons, so I don't have to think about it or be scaried."

 

That's pretty much it.

This again is what I mean. Bowie is hanging on that one line in the midst of the argument after Mythal, but I think you need to put that into the context of all her other statements about religion, which do not reveal a devout believer. She does believe, and that line is significant, but it doesn't make her devout on its own.

[Bowie Hawkins]

This again is what I mean. Bowie is hanging on that one line in the midst of the argument after Mythal, but I think you need to put that into the context of all her other statements about religion, which do not reveal a devout believer. 

 

Not accepting every individual section of dogma isn't the same as not being devout, and I made that line my focus in my previous posts because Google was failing me in my attempts to get the other dialogue from her that shows her to be far more devout in her belief in Andraste than you are willing to give her credit. Still don't have the exact wording yet, but I did find a good summary here: http://shouldbewriti...oes-out-to-sera

 

"It’s also Sera’s fears that lead her to cling to Andraste.  In her conversations with Iron Bull she brings up her convictions that Andraste is for everyone.  And in Skyhold if you ask her the right question she’ll admit that part of the reason she joined was because she wanted to see that the Maker is real.  Because if the Maker is real, then Andraste is real and if Andraste is real than Andraste’s acceptance of everyone is real.  And if her acceptance is real it means that everyone, including Sera herself, is worth something.  Which feeds into her rejection of the elven gods because the elven gods are not for everyone - they’re for elfy elves - and if they’re real then the Maker isn’t real, Andraste as the Bride of the Maker isn’t real, the acceptance isn’t real and Sera is afraid of that."

 

So the greater context actually shows her to be more, rather than less, devout.

[YourFunnyUncle]

Not accepting every individual section of dogma isn't the same as not being devout, and I made that line my focus in my previous posts because Google was failing me in my attempts to get the other dialogue from her that shows her to be far more devout in her belief in Andraste than you are willing to give her credit. Still don't have the exact wording yet, but I did find a good summary here: http://shouldbewriti...oes-out-to-sera

 

"It’s also Sera’s fears that lead her to cling to Andraste.  In her conversations with Iron Bull she brings up her convictions that Andraste is for everyone.  And in Skyhold if you ask her the right question she’ll admit that part of the reason she joined was because she wanted to see that the Maker is real.  Because if the Maker is real, then Andraste is real and if Andraste is real than Andraste’s acceptance of everyone is real.  And if her acceptance is real it means that everyone, including Sera herself, is worth something.  Which feeds into her rejection of the elven gods because the elven gods are not for everyone - they’re for elfy elves - and if they’re real then the Maker isn’t real, Andraste as the Bride of the Maker isn’t real, the acceptance isn’t real and Sera is afraid of that."

 

So the greater context actually shows her to be more, rather than less, devout.

I think maybe what we're coming from here is a different understanding of what the word "devout" means. For me someone who is devout has religion at front and centre of what they do and their motivations, and they generally try to practice their religion in accordance with its teachings. It's not enough simply to believe in a religion's deity to be called "devout". One needs to be an adherent to its dogma, or at least to one's own carefully thought through  interpretation of what it should be.

 

Cassandra is someone I would describe as devout. She questions certain chantry teachings and actions, sure, but service to the maker is key to everything she is. It's at the core of her motivations. She wants to preserve the chantry and set it back onto what she considers to be the correct path.

 

Leliana is also devout. She diverges yet more from chantry teachings and wants more reforms but the maker is still really important in her thinking, and she puts a lot of thought into her faith.

 

For Sera her faith is undeniably a factor in her thinking, and part of the reason why she joined the Inquisition, but one among several, and she doesn't worship Andraste in anything approaching the manner in which the Chantry teaches. Her conversations with Bull reveal that quite clearly. I see her embracing of the idea of Andraste being accepting as grabbing an idea that feeds into what I consider to be her greater motivation, which as I've said is the desire for elves in general and her in particular to be accepted by Theodosian society as the same as everyone else. It's not her main motivation in and of itself. Added to that, I don't think that Sera has a solid interpretation of what Andrasteanism means beyond this idea that Andraste is for everyone. That's not a devout person. That's someone who likes the idea of Andraste because they can fit it into their worldview.

 

So again, yes she has faith. Yes it's part of her motivations, but I don't think it's the most important part, and I don't think it's either dogmatic or considered and thought through in detail, so I could not ever call her devout.

[ComedicSociopathy]

This is where things get weird.

 

I think it is clear that Sera's opinions on Andrastianism are far removed from what the Chantry actually preaches. Sera wants to be accepted by others and society as a whole for who she is, but the Chantry itself preaches that elves and dwarves are removed from the Maker's light more so then human's and are therefore shunned by the faith. Sera may believe otherwise and hold that Andraste meant for everyone to be accepted into the faith without the need for authoritative and conformitive rules and values, which is something that bugs her about the Qun, but that really doesn't make much sense and shows how irreverent/ignorant she is her own faith. She's mostly disinterested in understanding the actually scripture of the Chant of Light too, getting bored when Giselle tries to explain it. 

 

She picks and chooses which parts of it she likes and disregards the parts that she doesn't want to hear even though its a cornerstone of the faith, which is essentially heresy and is the exact kind of thing that got Leliana ostracized from her chantry. The way I see it Sera just wants to be accepted as something other then being just an elf and her personal version of Andrastianism serves that person while not being that much related to the faith proper.

 

Besides, I can't see Sera worshiping the Maker since the jerk pretty much acts like an over powered noble that got irrationally peeved seven people decided to break into his bachelor pad and so decided to unleash an unholy plague upon all the little people in Thedas, even through they had nothing to do with Corypheus and his buddies. The woman hates the idea of little people becoming collateral damage because of the schemes of the powerful and Maker is the ultimate example of that. 

[Xilizhra]

Not accepting every individual section of dogma isn't the same as not being devout, and I made that line my focus in my previous posts because Google was failing me in my attempts to get the other dialogue from her that shows her to be far more devout in her belief in Andraste than you are willing to give her credit. Still don't have the exact wording yet, but I did find a good summary here: http://shouldbewriti...oes-out-to-sera

 

"It’s also Sera’s fears that lead her to cling to Andraste.  In her conversations with Iron Bull she brings up her convictions that Andraste is for everyone.  And in Skyhold if you ask her the right question she’ll admit that part of the reason she joined was because she wanted to see that the Maker is real.  Because if the Maker is real, then Andraste is real and if Andraste is real than Andraste’s acceptance of everyone is real.  And if her acceptance is real it means that everyone, including Sera herself, is worth something.  Which feeds into her rejection of the elven gods because the elven gods are not for everyone - they’re for elfy elves - and if they’re real then the Maker isn’t real, Andraste as the Bride of the Maker isn’t real, the acceptance isn’t real and Sera is afraid of that."

 

So the greater context actually shows her to be more, rather than less, devout.

Argh, this ****** writeup. I certainly believe all of it, but it really brings my frustration to a head, for this reason:

 

My vision of the elves is inclusive, not exclusive.

 

My elf Inquisitor, Eiria, doesn't give a damn about who one worships; indeed, even the Creators themselves turn out not to be worthy of worship, in all likelihood. But neither is the Maker, nor Andraste, but none of that really matters. What matters is two things: that Sera has the gall to accuse the ancient elves of Arlathan as being powered by demons (though she's magically ignorant enough that she might not know what a deadly insult that is), and that she imagines a rejection of herself where there is none. Eiria is elfy as ****, but she's pan-elfy; she wants to reunite and uplift the entirety of the elven people, not separate and divide them further. Arlathan's promise is for all elves, and Sera can join in and be included any damn time she pleases without having to change her own faith--at least, in Eiria's perspective. And probably this isn't Sera's perspective of the Dalish, and that's understandable and all, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a free gift that Eiria would offer (which, I confess, makes me sound like some kind of evangelical vision of Jesus; so be it).

 

Also, Solas is right about Sera being the furthest from what she was meant to be, but that is not, in my opinion, an insult or an indictment of Sera's character. A better way to put it would have been that Sera is the furthest away from what she deserves to be. To quote Yoda, "Luminous beings, we are, not this crude matter."

[Iakus]

Argh, this ****** writeup. I certainly believe all of it, but it really brings my frustration to a head, for this reason:

 

My vision of the elves is inclusive, not exclusive.

 

My elf Inquisitor, Eiria, doesn't give a damn about who one worships; indeed, even the Creators themselves turn out not to be worthy of worship, in all likelihood. But neither is the Maker, nor Andraste, but none of that really matters. What matters is two things: that Sera has the gall to accuse the ancient elves of Arlathan as being powered by demons (though she's magically ignorant enough that she might not know what a deadly insult that is), and that she imagines a rejection of herself where there is none. Eiria is elfy as ****, but she's pan-elfy; she wants to reunite and uplift the entirety of the elven people, not separate and divide them further. Arlathan's promise is for all elves, and Sera can join in and be included any damn time she pleases without having to change her own faith--at least, in Eiria's perspective. And probably this isn't Sera's perspective of the Dalish, and that's understandable and all, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a free gift that Eiria would offer (which, I confess, makes me sound like some kind of evangelical vision of Jesus; so be it).

 

Also, Solas is right about Sera being the furthest from what she was meant to be, but that is not, in my opinion, an insult or an indictment of Sera's character. A better way to put it would have been that Sera is the furthest away from what she deserves to be. To quote Yoda, "Luminous beings, we are, not this crude matter."

That may be Eiria's perspective, but, as you may have noticed, that's not what you'd call a common Dalish outlook. "Pan elfiness" is a foreign concept.

 

There is a divide between city and Dalish elves, just as there is a divide between common and nobility among humans.  Most Dalish look down on the city elves.  And while some city elves aspire to one day be like the Dalish, others simply see them as being detached from their way of life.  Lording over their beknighted lot how "pure" they are.    Sera clearly falls into the latter.  She sees "elfy elves" like that as being no better than nobles.  She simply cannot believe that this "gift" exists.  It's simply not how nobles operate.  You're "gift" would just be another batch of raisin cookies to her.

 

It's is sad that she's so untrusting that she treats history with such contempt.  But it's not a surprising one.  

[Xilizhra]

That may be Eiria's perspective, but, as you may have noticed, that's not what you'd call a common Dalish outlook. "Pan elfiness" is a foreign concept.

 

There is a divide between city and Dalish elves, just as there is a divide between common and nobility among humans.  Most Dalish look down on the city elves.  And while some city elves aspire to one day be like the Dalish, others simply see them as being detached from their way of life.  Lording over their beknighted lot how "pure" they are.    Sera clearly falls into the latter.  She sees "elfy elves" like that as being no better than nobles.  She simply cannot believe that this "gift" exists.  It's simply not how nobles operate.  You're "gift" would just be another batch of raisin cookies to her.

 

It's is sad that she's so untrusting that she treats history with such contempt.  But it's not a surprising one.  

Well, she doesn't have to join my plans to rebuild the empire if she really doesn't want to, but damn it, couldn't there have been another way out of this conversation without calling everything nonsense? And she knows I don't worship the Maker and do (or did) worship the Creators; she can't possibly not, I talk about it all the time. It wasn't a problem up until now. And I had never done any of these things that she accuses elfy elves of doing; moreover, even breaking up with her doesn't lead to doing any of that.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Argh, this ****** writeup. I certainly believe all of it, but it really brings my frustration to a head, for this reason:

 

My vision of the elves is inclusive, not exclusive.

 

My elf Inquisitor, Eiria, doesn't give a damn about who one worships; indeed, even the Creators themselves turn out not to be worthy of worship, in all likelihood. But neither is the Maker, nor Andraste, but none of that really matters. What matters is two things: that Sera has the gall to accuse the ancient elves of Arlathan as being powered by demons (though she's magically ignorant enough that she might not know what a deadly insult that is), and that she imagines a rejection of herself where there is none. Eiria is elfy as ****, but she's pan-elfy; she wants to reunite and uplift the entirety of the elven people, not separate and divide them further. Arlathan's promise is for all elves, and Sera can join in and be included any damn time she pleases without having to change her own faith--at least, in Eiria's perspective. And probably this isn't Sera's perspective of the Dalish, and that's understandable and all, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a free gift that Eiria would offer (which, I confess, makes me sound like some kind of evangelical vision of Jesus; so be it).

 

Also, Solas is right about Sera being the furthest from what she was meant to be, but that is not, in my opinion, an insult or an indictment of Sera's character. A better way to put it would have been that Sera is the furthest away from what she deserves to be. To quote Yoda, "Luminous beings, we are, not this crude matter."

 

It doesn't seem that the elven faith is inclusive. Or at least its current interpretation isn't. We haven't seen a single example of a city elf being allowed to keep his/her original Andrastian faith when they covert to the Dalish. It's possible that is the case and Sera in the DLC mentions that their are some elves (not sure if Dalish, city or both) that do worship both religions but that might be an incredibly rare phenomenon that isn't accepted by most Dalish clans. Furthermore, while your Inquisitor may be allowed to head canon that she believes that Arlathan is for all elves and that she'd be willing to accept all faiths regardless of whether they "logically" can't be all true because of the dogma in them, the game sure doesn't allow you to express that to Sera or anyone for that matter. As far as anyone's concerned Lavellen can only be a follower of the Creators, Andrastian or an atheist, nothing as nuanced as to what you are describing. 

 

Sera's whole demon thing is unfounded of course, but once again you can't tell inform her that Solas told you that elves just happened to somehow be immortal by nature that then lost that immortality because... of reasons. Not that saying they were biologically immortal just cause is much of an explanation either. Plus we still don't what the gods even are yet. Solas flat out calls them spirits or mages, and a letter left from the Forgetten Ones in the DLC says something along the same lines. They could be demons for all we know. We do know that a few of them were jerks though, which my mind makes them practically demons anyway. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Sera is the furthest from what she deserves to be. Are you talking about the ancient elves? Those people who enslaved their own, destroyed themselves in a panic and treat any elf that isn't all special and immortal as shems undeserving of stepping foot in their temple. Screw them. They were freaking users and nobles types that punched down. They got what was coming to them.

 

Alright, that might be bit much but their no better then any of the other arseholes in Thedas. 

[Xilizhra]

It doesn't seem that the elven faith is inclusive. Or at least its current interpretation isn't. We haven't seen a single example of a city elf being allowed to keep his/her original Andrastian faith when they covert to the Dalish. It's possible that is the case and Sera in the DLC mentions that their are some elves (not sure if Dalish, city or both) that do worship both religions but that might be an incredibly rare phenomenon that isn't accepted by most Dalish clans. Furthermore, while your Inquisitor may be allowed to head canon that she believes that Arlathan is for all elves and that she'd be willing to accept all faiths regardless of whether they "logically" can't be all true because of the dogma in them, the game sure doesn't allow you to express that to Sera or anyone for that matter. As far as anyone's concerned Lavellen can only be a follower of the Creators, Andrastian or an atheist, nothing as nuanced as to what you are describing. 

 

Sera's whole demon thing is unfounded of course, but once again you can't tell inform her that Solas told you that elves just happened to somehow be immortal by nature that then lost that immortality because... of reasons. Not that saying they were biologically immortal just cause is much of an explanation either. Plus we still don't what the gods even are yet. Solas flat out calls them spirits or mages, and a letter left from the Forgetten Ones in the DLC says something along the same lines. They could be demons for all we know. We do know that a few of them were jerks though, which my mind makes them practically demons anyway. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Sera is the furthest from what she deserves to be. Are you talking about the ancient elves? Those people who enslaved their own, destroyed themselves in a panic and treat any elf that isn't all special and immortal as shems undeserving of stepping foot in their temple. Screw them. They were freaking users and nobles types that punched down. They got what was coming to them.

 

Alright, that might be bit much but their no better then any of the other arseholes in Thedas. 

So, basically, the fact that the Inquisition had shitty writing for the PC comes back in its hardest and most obnoxious form with Sera, it seems.

 

As for the "Sera is furthest from what she deserves to be," I mean immortal, magical, and living in a wondrous magical realm.

[ComedicSociopathy]

So, basically, the fact that the Inquisition had shitty writing for the PC comes back in its hardest and most obnoxious form with Sera, it seems.

 

As for the "Sera is furthest from what she deserves to be," I mean immortal, magical, and living in a wondrous magical realm.

 

Yep, pretty much. There's so many times you want to mention a companion's hypocrisy or ask a perfectly logical and natural question about something, but get denied the option to do so. Those talks with God Baby Kieran were the worst.

 

Yeah... chances are that Sera would turn ended up being a slave for some noble, skinned alive by Andruil in one of her hunts or killed during Dirthamen's wars. Being an ancient elf may have been wondrous if you were a god, a priest or a noble but if you were some lowly slave I'm sure being immortal was an inescapable curse. 

[Xilizhra]

Yep, pretty much. There's so many times you want to mention a companion's hypocrisy or ask a perfectly logical and natural question about something, but get denied the option to do so. Those talks with God Baby Kieran were the worst.

 

Yeah... chances are that Sera would turn ended up being a slave for some noble, skinned alive by Andruil in one of her hunts or killed during Dirthamen's wars. Being an ancient elf may have been wondrous if you were a god, a priest or a noble but if you were some lowly slave I'm sure being immortal was an inescapable curse. 

Solas waxes with too much rhapsody about the place for me to believe it was that bad. He's certainly not the sort of person who ignores the plight of the common folk.

[Iakus]

Yep, pretty much. There's so many times you want to mention a companion's hypocrisy or ask a perfectly logical and natural question about something, but get denied the option to do so. Those talks with God Baby Kieran were the worst.

Yeah... chances are that Sera would turn ended up being a slave for some noble, skinned alive by Andruil in one of her hunts or killed during Dirthamen's wars. Being an ancient elf may have been wondrous if you were a god, a priest or a noble but if you were some lowly slave I'm sure being immortal was an inescapable curse.

Sounds like Orzamarr Or Tevinter.

[WildOrchid]

 

 

X

[Bowie Hawkins]

I think maybe what we're coming from here is a different understanding of what the word "devout" means. For me someone who is devout has religion at front and centre of what they do and their motivations, and they generally try to practice their religion in accordance with its teachings.

 

That may be your definition, but it's not the formal definition of the word. The three definitions offered when I did a dictionary search on "devout" are as follows:

 

1. devoted to divine worship or service; pious; religious

2. expressing devotion or piety

3. earnest or sincere; hearty

 

You can make a case for the first not applying to Sera, but the second and third definitely apply to her beliefs as she expresses them in the game.

 

 

I think it is clear that Sera's opinions on Andrastianism are far removed from what the Chantry actually preaches. Sera wants to be accepted by others and society as a whole for who she is, but the Chantry itself preaches that elves and dwarves are removed from the Maker's light more so then human's and are therefore shunned by the faith. 

 

Brother Burkel being able to establish a Chantry inside Orzammar in Origins indicates that the dwarves are not as shunned as you would have us believe, and whether or not Sera's opinions on Andrastianism are the same as a Reverend Mother's, here's what she has to say if you ask her why she joined:

 

""I don't know? I just... I've got all the Chantry stuff in my head, and it makes sense, right?"

 

My vision of the elves is inclusive, not exclusive.

 

My elf Inquisitor, Eiria, doesn't give a damn about who one worships; indeed, even the Creators themselves turn out not to be worthy of worship, in all likelihood. But neither is the Maker, nor Andraste, but none of that really matters. What matters is two things: that Sera has the gall to accuse the ancient elves of Arlathan as being powered by demons (though she's magically ignorant enough that she might not know what a deadly insult that is), and that she imagines a rejection of herself where there is none. 

 

The majority of the Dalish elves have exclusive visions of what elves are - this is why they coined the term "flat-ears" to describe City elves. And Sera says that the elven gods are demons because she believes the Chantry doctrine that there are no gods other than the Maker, and that is mutually contradictory to any other faith that holds that there are any other gods. So if the elven faith is true, that means that Andrastiasnism is not. And if Andrastianism is not true, then neither is the acceptance she found in Andrastianism that was never offered her by any of the elfy elves or their religion.

[KaiserShep]

Solas waxes with too much rhapsody about the place for me to believe it was that bad. He's certainly not the sort of person who ignores the plight of the common folk.

 

It's also possible that Solas conveniently overlooks a great many things in favor of the idea of "elven glory". After all, the elves pretty much destroyed their own empire.

[Xilizhra]

The majority of the Dalish elves have exclusive visions of what elves are - this is why they coined the term "flat-ears" to describe City elves. And Sera says that the elven gods are demons because she believes the Chantry doctrine that there are no gods other than the Maker, and that is mutually contradictory to any other faith that holds that there are any other gods. So if the elven faith is true, that means that Andrastiasnism is not. And if Andrastianism is not true, then neither is the acceptance she found in Andrastianism that was never offered her by any of the elfy elves or their religion.

But the Maker isn't an accepting god; he's a gigantic *******. And Andraste existed in the physical world regardless of anyone's beliefs; Andraste can still be "for everyone." And again, this wasn't an issue at the beginning of the relationship and only became one now.

 

 

It's also possible that Solas conveniently overlooks a great many things in favor of the idea of "elven glory". After all, the elves pretty much destroyed their own empire.

Something that Solas never denies, nor does he imply otherwise.

[Miss Quisitor]

I don't know if this has been already seen in this thread but i just found out you can have a marriage proposal with Sera which makes her beam with joy.   

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=QNdSxBAbhIY

[YourFunnyUncle]

That may be your definition, but it's not the formal definition of the word. The three definitions offered when I did a dictionary search on "devout" are as follows:

 

1. devoted to divine worship or service; pious; religious

2. expressing devotion or piety

3. earnest or sincere; hearty

 

You can make a case for the first not applying to Sera, but the second and third definitely apply to her beliefs as she expresses them in the game.

The First is clearly the most common definition and a differently expressed form of the one that I was using. I was just explaining how I apply it to Dragon Age characters, and in fact was applying a slightly more inclusive definition if anything.

 

The second... Devout expresses devotion? That's pretty circular. And pious is synonym of devout, so expressing piety is the same as expressing devotion. That one is therefore self-referential and redundant, and I don't see how it applies to Sera's religious views as it just takes you back to the first definition.

 

The third, well... It seems to be about when you apply the word in a context outside of the religious (She was a devout socialist) so it's not really relevant to our discussions.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I don't know if this has been already seen in this thread but i just found out you can have a marriage proposal with Sera which make sher beam with joy.   

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=QNdSxBAbhIY

Yeah. It's where this screenshot comes from, although a lot of people take one of the other options "love is the best" I think, because then she calls you "Honey Tongue" which sticks as your new nickname.

 

[Xilizhra]

So, question: would anyone here be comfortable engaging me in a bit of RP where the other one plays as Sera, while I play as my own elf Inquisitor, in an experiment to see how the dialogue between them might work if I was allowed to say anything I wanted? I would do this all myself, but I fear that I might not be objective.