100552 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Theres no difference between male or female with Josie, all the lines are delivered just the same, the duel, ect, all developed with a male Quizzy in mind, then seemingly female Quizzy added after.

Josie was the first romance I did, and while it was sweet at times, the whole thing felt a bit off because of not being written with a female Quizzy in mind at all.

How should a female Inquisitor have been covered?

 

 

I haven't played the romance but I'm having trouble getting my head around the idea of a society where a man would be totally okay with dueling someone over a woman's hand in marriage but completely indifferent to their opponent also being a woman.

It's Antiva. Zevran makes it fairly clear that no one in Antiva cares about sexual orientation.

[Sunnie]

I haven't played the romance but I'm having trouble getting my head around the idea of a society where a man would be totally okay with dueling someone over a woman's hand in marriage but completely indifferent to their opponent also being a woman.

Exactly.

[Aimi]

I don't see how this
 

Theres no difference between male or female with Josie, all the lines are delivered just the same, the duel, ect,

implies this
 

all developed with a male Quizzy in mind, then seemingly female Quizzy added after.

but this isn't Josie's thread so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SardaukarElite]

It's Antiva. Zevran makes it fairly clear that no one in Antiva cares about sexual orientation.

 

It's not that.

 

The idea of dueling over a woman is tied up in a bunch of things, but mainly it speaks of a lack of independence for the woman. That another woman would then be allowed to fight over her gives her an agency that I wouldn't expect to be granted without any acknowledgment.

 

I guess you could handwave it by saying that they're combatants fighting over a non-combatant and gender isn't in play. But I always see the influences behind these things so feel there's something missing when you defuse a particular societal issue and then keep playing with things which flowed on from that.

 

It's not a huge deal though. Reworking societies isn't a walk in the park by any stretch.

[Sunnie]

How should a female Inquisitor have been covered?

 

 

It's Antiva. Zevran makes it fairly clear that no one in Antiva cares about sexual orientation.

It's hard to explain... it just feels as though Josie treats a female Quizzy the exact same as a male, as I have seen in youtube vids. Theres some pretty big differences in how female partners treat each other and talk to each other as opposed to male/female.  Sera on the other hand, her interaction is obvious that she is dealing with another woman, at least I can feel that.

 

As far as being Antiva, the duel was taking place in Orlais, I don;t think Antivan rules would apply there.

Edit, and I don't think that Orlesian society would not have something to say about it or cause a scene at the event.

[Sunnie]

I don't see how this
 

implies this
 

but this isn't Josie's thread so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It isn't, but it was in response to Xili's post above.

[KaiserShep]

It's hard to explain... it just feels as though Josie treats a female Quizzy the exact same as a male, as I have seen in youtube vids. Theres some pretty big differences in how female partners treat each other and talk to each other as opposed to male/female.  Sera on the other hand, her interaction is obvious that she is dealing with another woman, at least I can feel that.

 

As far as being Antiva, the duel was taking place in Orlais, I don;t think Antivan rules would apply there.

Edit, and I don't think that Orlesian society would not have something to say about it or cause a scene at the event.

 

All's I can say is, Lord Toronto is lucky that the Inquisitor doesn't slap his ass with hidden blades or thousand cuts or something, or else the Orlesians would have some freshly grated noble sprinkled all over Val Royeaux's market square.

[SardaukarElite]

All's I can say is, Lord Toronto is lucky that the Inquisitor doesn't slap his ass with hidden blades or thousand cuts or something, or else the Orlesians would have some freshly grated noble sprinkled all over Val Royeaux's market square.

 

I'd rather the actual gameplay was more like the duel. Maybe without all the Flynning though.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Theres no difference between male or female with Josie, all the lines are delivered just the same, the duel, ect, all developed with a male Quizzy in mind, then seemingly female Quizzy added after.

Josie was the first romance I did, and while it was sweet at times, the whole thing felt a bit off because of not being written with a female Quizzy in mind at all.

 

I haven't played the romance but I'm having trouble getting my head around the idea of a society where a man would be totally okay with dueling someone over a woman's hand in marriage but completely indifferent to their opponent also being a woman.

+1 to both of you.

 

I don't want to claim or assume that Josie must have been a male-only love interest at first, but I also don't think it takes a genius to see that she was written with a male Inquisitor in mind.

[AresKeith]

+1 to both of you.

 

I don't want to claim or assume that Josie must have been a male-only love interest at first, but I also don't think it takes a genius to see that she was written with a male Inquisitor in mind.

 

Depends on how you view it I guess 

[KaiserShep]

I'd rather the actual gameplay was more like the duel. Maybe without all the Flynning though.

 

If the gameplay was like that duel, no doubt dragon fights would take hours.

[FemHawke FTW]

 

 

 

 

Adorable thread bump!

[FemHawke FTW]

Thanks for answering my question Xil, sorry to everyone if it caused too much of an OT conversation.

[SardaukarElite]

If the gameplay was like that duel, no doubt dragon fights would take hours.

 

Yeah but a rapier duel with a dragon would be epic.

 

Oh, right.

[Aimi]

I also don't think it takes a genius to see that she was written with a male Inquisitor in mind.

yeah that's not insulting at all

[Fiery Phoenix]

yeah that's not insulting at all

My apologies if that sounded that way. The main point is the Inquisitor being female seems highly irrelevant in Josie's romance, up to the point where it can at times feel awkward and incomplete (e.g. the duel scene). Like Sunnie said, this leads me to think that Josephine's character was written with a male Inquisitor in mind, and that the female romance was just 'thrown in' later on, as opposed to being equally considered in parallel. 

 

It might depend on how you see it alright, though that's the impression I got from it personally (and evidently I'm not the only one).

[Sporothrix]

It's hard to explain... it just feels as though Josie treats a female Quizzy the exact same as a male, as I have seen in youtube vids. Theres some pretty big differences in how female partners treat each other and talk to each other as opposed to male/female.  Sera on the other hand, her interaction is obvious that she is dealing with another woman, at least I can feel that.

 

As far as being Antiva, the duel was taking place in Orlais, I don;t think Antivan rules would apply there.

Edit, and I don't think that Orlesian society would not have something to say about it or cause a scene at the event.

 

I don't think it's so obvious with Sera, but I think that in her case, as well as in case of all bisexual LIs except for Josie, they were written in very "neutral" way, which works just as good for male and female protagonists, besides, for example Merrill actually had different lines for men and women. The plot of Josie's romance isn't gender-neutral, it's based on cultural motive coming from very old times, that is intrinsically heteronormative and patriarchal in its nature. To make it work for a female protagonist it needed serious rewriting.

 

And speaking of treatment of homosexuality once again, the game states that actually Orlais treats it the best, as "quirk of character", and that it's problem mainly for nobles (because of the need for heirs) and when people are indiscreet about it.

Both of those situations took place in same-sex version of that romance, but no one was bothered by it. They evidently perceived the protagonist, I dunno, as if she was a man.

[SardaukarElite]

My apologies if that sounded that way. The main point is the Inquisitor being female seems highly irrelevant in Josie's romance, up to the point where it can at times feel awkward and incomplete (e.g. the duel scene). Like Sunnie said, this leads me to think that Josephine's character was written with a male Inquisitor in mind, and that the female romance was just 'thrown in' later on, as opposed to being equally considered in parallel. 

 

I wouldn't assume that a female character's femaleness not being particularly relevant necessarily means that a character is written as male.

 

Shepard is a largely gender irrelevant character, and I've read a few women (critically and casually) praising the resulting female Shepard for that. Because they liked playing a woman who people (mostly) didn't make a big deal over being a woman. I would expect other writers to try to write gender irrelevant player characters for similar reasons. Consider that often in RPGs the way that gender choice actually impacts the writing beyond romance unlocks and pronoun flips is that women player characters will at some point get hit on by some hideously unattractive man in a tavern / space tavern.

 

The thing is, a male video game protagonist isn't usually particularly male in the writing beyond being allowed to do things without question and nobody commenting on their appearance. So, I think a character written as gender irrelevant would be largely the same as a character written as male.

 

(edit)

I think that the societal implications of gender equal dueling over women is odd. But dueling is cool, so I can also see that a writer would just ignore things so that their Schrodinger's gender character can still have a cool duel regardless. Because the point is to have a cool duel in a romance, not discuss gender.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I wouldn't assume that a female character's femaleness not being particularly relevant necessarily means that a character is written as male.

 

Shepard is a largely gender irrelevant character, and I've read a few women (critically and casually) praising the resulting female Shepard for that. Because they liked playing a woman who people (mostly) didn't make a big deal over being a woman. I would expect other writers to try to write gender irrelevant player characters for similar reasons. Consider that often in RPGs the way that gender choice actually impacts the writing beyond romance unlocks and pronoun flips is that women player characters will at some point get hit on by some hideously unattractive man in a tavern / space tavern.

 

The thing is, a male video game protagonist isn't usually particularly male in the writing beyond being allowed to do things without question and nobody commenting on their appearance. So, I think a character written as gender irrelevant would be largely the same as a character written as male.

 

(edit)

I think that the societal implications of gender equal dueling over women is odd. But dueling is cool, so I can also see that a writer would just ignore things so that their Schrodinger's gender character can still have a cool duel regardless. Because the point is to have a cool duel in a romance, not discuss gender.

All good points.

[AresKeith]

(edit)

I think that the societal implications of gender equal dueling over women is odd. But dueling is cool, so I can also see that a writer would just ignore things so that their Schrodinger's gender character can still have a cool duel regardless. Because the point is to have a cool duel in a romance, not discuss gender.

 

And it was less about dueling over a woman but showing that your romance with Josie was legit and not just a fling

[Sunnie]

I don't think it's so obvious with Sera, but I think that in her case, as well as in case of all bisexual LIs except for Josie, they were written in very "neutral" way, which works just as good for male and female protagonists, besides, for example Merrill actually had different lines for men and women. The plot of Josie's romance isn't gender-neutral, it's based on cultural motive coming from very old times, that is intrinsically heteronormative and patriarchal in its nature. To make it work for a female protagonist it needed serious rewriting.

With the Bi LIs (excluding Merrill), I agree that they were written in a very neutral way, but to me they feel male protagonist oriented. As I said earlier, Sera's romance and interactions didn't feel that way, so I don't agree that one point as far as Sera is concerned. But I think you have some good points about Josie's romance that more accurately explains why I feel the way I do about it. It definitely needs a rewrite to really work well with a female Quizzy.
 

And speaking of treatment of homosexuality once again, the game states that actually Orlais treats it the best, as "quirk of character", and that it's problem mainly for nobles (because of the need for heirs) and when people are indiscreet about it.
Both of those situations took place in same-sex version of that romance, but no one was bothered by it. They evidently perceived the protagonist, I dunno, as if she was a man.

Yep, that is another part of what makes some of the writing not feel right to me. IDK, maybe it's just me? I like who I am, I'm a girly girl and my partner is a girly girl. I just prefer to be treated as such IRL so I may be a bit biased in that regard.

[Sunnie]

And it was less about dueling over a woman but showing that your romance with Josie was legit and not just a fling

I agree that this was the point, but it sort of failed to come across as such for me, likely because of who I am and my own expectations.

[AresKeith]

I agree that this was the point, but it sort of failed to come across as such for me, likely because of who I am and my own expectations.

 

It just goes to show that people have their own preferences and it's difficult for Bioware to account for them right?

[jlb524]

I only youtubed Josie's romance but I really didn't like it because of the duel scene.

 

IDK, I think it would have been more romantic to actually respect her wishes and let her handle the situation instead of going behind her back to duel some dude for the right to have her or whatever.  I do feel this is the type of trope you'll typically see with heterosexual romances.

[Sunnie]

It just goes to show that people have their own preferences and it's difficult for Bioware to account for them right?

Of course. I don't fault them for that.  My desire is that they spend a bit more effort on making interactions with preferential specific characters feel a bit more how they would for the average person in that preference group. I am an average lesbian, I think, maybe a little more to the girly side than most, but I consider myself rather average among my peers. Just seems like gay characters written by non-gay writers of the opposite gender don't quite get it right. Just my opinion.

 

 

I only youtubed Josie's romance but I really didn't like it because of the duel scene.

 

IDK, I think it would have been more romantic to actually respect her wishes and let her handle the situation instead of going behind her back to duel some dude for the right to have her or whatever.  I do feel this is the type of trope you'll typically see with heterosexual romances.

Yep, the duel was not how I would have handled that, nor how any of my acquaintances/friends/lovers would have. It's one of the major disconnects I had with the Josie romance. Thankfully, we didn't have anything like this with Sera.