100542 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Spoiler

Why in Hell's name did she give Dagna that nickname? "Widdle" is British slang for pee, possibly (from the context I know it from) specifically in relation to dogs.

 

Spoiler

Maybe because "widdle" and "little" are only three letters apart?

[The Loyal Nub]

Didn't you read Sera's diary?

 

Spoiler

Widdle is Dagna. They get together if Sera isn't romanced.

 

It's weird that you can't marry a non-divine Cassandra. I guess I can understand it in a way as she'd want a proper huge "romantic" ceremony instead of some rushed thing at the Winter Palace, but still... Odd.

 

Spoiler

Oh wait I did read it! It was on the table in the Tavern, right? I just forgot! Viv was my Divine. So, wait, I heard Cass gets no wedding scene at all so you're telling me she does but only if she's the Divine? But the Divine can't marry right?

 

Spoiler

yup, Sera and Dagna, awesome. Of course I will never see that in my games. that Sera

 

Spoiler

No, I suppose you won't! 

 

Spoiler

Why in Hell's name did she give Dagna that nickname? "Widdle" is British slang for pee, possibly (from the context I know it from) specifically in relation to dogs.

 

Spoiler

I've never heard 'widdle' used as slang for pee by the Brits. I have heard 'slash' used for it instead

[YourFunnyUncle]

Spoiler

Oh wait I did read it! It was on the table in the Tavern, right? I just forgot! Viv was my Divine. So, wait, I heard Cass gets no wedding scene at all so you're telling me she does but only if she's the Divine? But the Divine can't marry right?

Spoiler

Sorry. I meant that it's understandable that you can't marry Divine Cassandra, but odd that you can't otherwise.

[Joe Barnin]

My inquisitor really fell for Sera. That became particularly clear near the end of Trespasser, when

Spoiler

the inquisitor's hand started freaking out, and there was the possibility that she wouldn't survive. At that point, I was okay with my character dying. I could deal with that; sometimes the hero doesn't make it. But then I thought, what about Sera? Poor thing, to find love and then have her heart broken like that. That was going to be depressing.

I guess that's the sign of a good character, when you care about their feelings like that.

[FemHawke FTW]

My inquisitor really fell for Sera. That became particularly clear near the end of Trespasser, when

Spoiler

the inquisitor's hand started freaking out, and there was the possibility that she wouldn't survive. At that point, I was okay with my character dying. I could deal with that; sometimes the hero doesn't make it. But then I thought, what about Sera? Poor thing, to find love and then have her heart broken like that. That was going to be depressing.

I guess that's the sign of a good character, when you care about their feelings like that.

She is a a pretty well written character isn't she? The right amount of silly fun, emotional depth, and not to mention Also, WELCOME TO THE SERANADE! Sorry if you've posted before and I missed/forgot it.

[Rel Fexive]

Indeed, welcome along!

Spoiler

Why in Hell's name did she give Dagna that nickname? "Widdle" is British slang for pee, possibly (from the context I know it from) specifically in relation to dogs.

Spoiler

While I am aware of that as slang for that, it's also kinda "baby talk" for "little" as others have said.

[Xilizhra]

Jaws of Hakkon is ****** ****.

[FemHawke FTW]

Can't see the full post Xill, did you enjoy Jaws of Hakkon or was it not to your liking?

[Xilizhra]

Can't see the full post Xill, did you enjoy Jaws of Hakkon or was it not to your liking?

I used two bleeped curse words. No, it is not to my liking, and it's not over yet.

 

Exactly who thought that the Harofsen fight was well designed? It involves positioning mechanics that party AI is much too stupid to handle on its own, introduces unprecedented abilities for revenants, and throws in this environmental damage mechanic that has absolutely no reason to exist. I hope that whomever designed this garbage was fired.

[Joe Barnin]

She is a a pretty well written character isn't she? The right amount of silly fun, emotional depth

And growth. I sensed more maturity in Trespasser - less self-centered, more empathetic.

 

It's funny, in the main game play-through, Sera changed the way I played my character. As I got involved with her, my inquisitor became more spontaneous and snarky, reflecting her personality. In Trespasser, she's the one who changed. Nice that a game can provide that kind of depth.

[FemHawke FTW]

I liked the DLC myself, but yeah that fight was pretty aggravating. Still though, the DLC is really enjoyable, liked all the lore involving spirits and the Fade. Plus I liked exploring Avaar culture, also there's... STORVACKER!!!

[Xilizhra]

I liked the DLC myself, but yeah that fight was pretty aggravating. Still though, the DLC is really enjoyable, liked all the lore involving spirits and the Fade. Plus I liked exploring Avaar culture, also there's... STORVACKER!!!

I don't like bears. I'm not afraid of them or anything, I just dislike them, and dislike memetic bears even more.

 

And... Sera is at her absolute worst in this DLC, and if I didn't know that she got better in Trespasser, I might have deleted this entire file. The sheer gall of sneering at "elfy-elves" for disliking Andrastian-Dalish syncretism when she herself rejected that explicitly in the ****** post-Mythal scene would have been bad enough, but that combined with the "pride cookies" line after Cassandra rather cavalierly brought up the destruction of the Dales made me want to smash her in the face with my staff.

[Dr. Doctor]

I used two bleeped curse words. No, it is not to my liking, and it's not over yet.
 
Exactly who thought that the Harofsen fight was well designed? It involves positioning mechanics that party AI is much too stupid to handle on its own, introduces unprecedented abilities for revenants, and throws in this environmental damage mechanic that has absolutely no reason to exist. I hope that whomever designed this garbage was fired.

I might be a little old-school, but I'd like to see a turn-based DA game. Think XCOM: Enemy Unknown, Final Fantasy Tactics, etc.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I don't like bears. I'm not afraid of them or anything, I just dislike them, and dislike memetic bears even more.

And... Sera is at her absolute worst in this DLC, and if I didn't know that she got better in Trespasser, I might have deleted this entire file. The sheer gall of sneering at "elfy-elves" for disliking Andrastian-Dalish syncretism when she herself rejected that explicitly in the ****** post-Mythal scene would have been bad enough, but that combined with the "pride cookies" line after Cassandra rather cavalierly brought up the destruction of the Dales made me want to smash her in the face with my staff.

Seriously? Cass didn't "rather cavalierly" bring anything up. She was reacting to the obvious news that two voices of moderation were lost from the elven side during that time, and that it seems clear that with Ameridan alive the exalted march on the Dales might have been avoided. Sera's remarks were fully justified in that context.

As to her thinking that Andrastianism and the Dalish religion don't mix, I wonder what might have brought her to that opinion? Perhaps being continually told that it was the case by Dalish? And now she finds out that at one time, powerful and influential Dalish didn't feel that way. The ones who belittled her weren't just wrong about the distant past but more recent history too. Of course she's going to find that funny.

Edit: I wonder; did you do the quest to help the injured young man by collecting the offerings for his father's funeral? You get some more hints about Sera's issues with being told that she's "the wrong kind of elf" in that one...

[FemHawke FTW]

I don't like bears. I'm not afraid of them or anything, I just dislike them, and dislike memetic bears even more.
 
And... Sera is at her absolute worst in this DLC, and if I didn't know that she got better in Trespasser, I might have deleted this entire file. The sheer gall of sneering at "elfy-elves" for disliking Andrastian-Dalish syncretism when she herself rejected that explicitly in the ****** post-Mythal scene would have been bad enough, but that combined with the "pride cookies" line after Cassandra rather cavalierly brought up the destruction of the Dales made me want to smash her in the face with my staff.

I mean this question in all sincerity, why did you bring Sera along on a DLC that's mostly about the Fade and centers around the exploits of a Dalish elf? And not too get too specific but after the Harofsen battle she has decent things to say about Inquisitor Ameriden (did I spell that right?) so there's that. Plus the points that Uncle brought up.

[Xilizhra]

Seriously? Cass didn't "rather cavalierly" bring anything up. She was reacting to the obvious news that two voices of moderation were lost from the elven side during that time, and that it seems clear that with Ameridan alive the exalted march on the Dales might have been avoided. Sera's remarks were fully justified in that context.

I find no justification at all for that sort of remark about genocide. Though the remark itself isn't quite as maddening as the inability to respond. In fact, lack of interactivity, and especially emotion, is a recurrent problem in Inquisition; there are many things I should be able to be legitimately enraged at, but I never can be.

 

 

As to her thinking that Andrastianism and the Dalish religion don't mix, I wonder what might have brought her to that opinion? Perhaps being continually told that it was the case by Dalish? And now she finds out that at one time, powerful and influential Dalish didn't feel that way. The ones who belittled her weren't just wrong about the distant past but more recent history too. Of course she's going to find that funny.

But she, herself, her own gorram creed that was apparently strong enough to potentially break up with me before, says that it's blasphemous or some such crap to blend them, otherwise she wouldn't have freaked out with the Temple of Mythal either.

 

 

Edit: I wonder; did you do the quest to help the injured young man by collecting the offerings for his father's funeral? You get some more hints about Sera's issues with being told that she's "the wrong kind of elf" in that one...

I did. And there, I was in full agreement with her.

 

 

I mean this question in all sincerity, why did you bring Sera along on a DLC that's mostly about the Fade and centers around the exploits of a Dalish elf? And not too get too specific but after the Harofsen battle she has decent things to say about Inquisitor Ameriden (did I spell that right?) so there's that. Plus the points that Uncle brought up.

Cole dies way too easily to melee AOE attacks and this DLC has a lot of bruisers, and Bianca's a nuisance to upgrade. But you're right, I probably shouldn't have done so, as Sera's largely terrible here. Maybe better in The Descent.

[YourFunnyUncle]

I find no justification at all for that sort of remark about genocide. Though the remark itself isn't quite as maddening as the inability to respond. In fact, lack of interactivity, and especially emotion, is a recurrent problem in Inquisition; there are many things I should be able to be legitimately enraged at, but I never can be.

But you see here the political situation before the genocide. You see how the Dalish themselves might have been able to avoid it by committing their forces to fight the blight and gaining the Orlesians' trust. Ameridan clearly saw that and was fighting to have the Dalish show solidarity, when both his powerful and influential voice and that of his lover were lost in preventing Hakkon's rampage. It may not excuse the actions of the Exalted March, but it shows that there might have been a peaceful solution to the political tensions.

 

But she, herself, her own gorram creed that was apparently strong enough to potentially break up with me before, says that it's blasphemous or some such crap to blend them, otherwise she wouldn't have freaked out with the Temple of Mythal either.

To me (and I've differed vocally with others about this on the thread before) the "maker and the elven gods don't fit" line is the least significant of the things Sera says post Mythal, given what we know of her from elsewhere. She freely admits that she never really treated her faith in the maker seriously at all before Corypheus came along. She thought it was all just fairy stories. Part of her motivation to stay with the Inquisition is her struggle to make sense of it all and find out if it's actually true.

I think the key is that she thinks that the Elven gods are clearly powerful demons, and that she believes that any Elven Inquisitor who believes in them strongly will eventually turn out like the other Dalish she's known and try to make her believe in them too. That's what she rails against most strongly; people who talk down to her and tell her how to think. I think that's why even by headcanoning that you're lying to her by saying you think it's false, that would be enough for her as she can see that your relationship means so much that you'd be willing to lie to keep it going.

I do however think that post-Mythal scene is indistinct and unclear, Elven Inquisitor or no. It almost seems as though the Inquisitor is talking about the historical accuracy of the existence the Elven gods, while she's replying about their nature, and they are talking past one another. Also as you have pointed out it's sorely missing a line where you try to let her know that you'll never try to make her believe in something she doesn't want to.

 

Cole dies way too easily to melee AOE attacks and this DLC has a lot of bruisers, and Bianca's a nuisance to upgrade. But you're right, I probably shouldn't have done so, as Sera's largely terrible here. Maybe better in The Descent.

I have twice used Sera's Thousand Cuts to one-shot Gurd Harofsen before he could do any serious damage to my party. I also managed to one-shot Hakkon with the Dragonlsayer Bow I crafted for her and the enhanced Thousand Cuts ring. Sera's great if you use her tactically on the big bosses.

[Xilizhra]

But you see here the political situation before the genocide. You see how the Dalish themselves might have been able to avoid it by committing their forces to fight the blight and gaining the Orlesians' trust. Ameridan clearly saw that and was fighting to have the Dalish show solidarity, when both his powerful and influential voice and that of his lover were lost in preventing Hakkon's rampage. It may not excuse the actions of the Exalted March, but it shows that there might have been a peaceful solution to the political tensions.

The "pride cookies" line was still heinous victim blaming. Honestly, even if I wouldn't have taken it, I'd appreciate an option to break up with her for that. Or at least call her out.

 

 

To me (and I've differed vocally with others about this on the thread before) the "maker and the elven gods don't fit" line is the least significant of the things Sera says post Mythal, given what we know of her from elsewhere. She freely admits that she never really treated her faith in the maker seriously at all before Corypheus came along. She thought it was all just fairy stories. Part of her motivation to stay with the Inquisition is her struggle to make sense of it all and find out if it's actually true.

I think the key is that she thinks that the Elven gods are clearly powerful demons, and that she believes that any Elven Inquisitor who believes in them strongly will eventually turn out like the other Dalish she's known and try to make her believe in them too. That's what she rails against most strongly; people who talk down to her and tell her how to think. I think that's why even by headcanoning that you're lying to her by saying you think it's false, that would be enough for her as she can see that your relationship means so much that you'd be willing to lie to keep it going.

I do however think that post-Mythal scene is indistinct and unclear, Elven Inquisitor or no. It almost seems as though the Inquisitor is talking about the historical accuracy of the existence the Elven gods, while she's replying about their nature, and they are talking past one another. Also as you have pointed out it's sorely missing a line where you try to let her know that you'll never try to make her believe in something she doesn't want to.

And through her fear, she becomes exactly what she hated in others. And I'd appreciate that idea if you could acknowledge it and say so. As it is, it's one of the worst scenes in the game and a blemish upon everyone who participated in it.

[Ghost Gal]

Seriously? Cass didn't "rather cavalierly" bring anything up. She was reacting to the obvious news that two voices of moderation were lost from the elven side during that time, and that it seems clear that with Ameridan alive the exalted march on the Dales might have been avoided. Sera's remarks were fully justified in that context.

As to her thinking that Andrastianism and the Dalish religion don't mix, I wonder what might have brought her to that opinion? Perhaps being continually told that it was the case by Dalish? And now she finds out that at one time, powerful and influential Dalish didn't feel that way. The ones who belittled her weren't just wrong about the distant past but more recent history too. Of course she's going to find that funny.

 

To be fair to the Dalish, humans have shown that they don't respect the Elvhen religion or believe it's possible to mix the two religions either, since they seem to think the Andraste part always cancels out the Elvhen part, and history remembers accordingly.

 

Ignoring for a moment that in "compromise between Andrasteism and Elvhen religion" scenarios, only elves are supposed to compromise and worship the human god but humans don't have to compromise and believe in or respect the Elvhen gods... (like Cassandra: "Why are we wasting time with this heathen nonsense?" at the Temple of Mythal, or asking a Dalish Inquisitor "And there is not room among your gods for one more?" when she herself doesn't volunteer to believe in any of your gods.)

 

Spoiler

 

Thedas history also shows that when elves give an inch, humans take a mile.

 

Ameridan followed both the Andrastian and Elvhen religion, but the humans chose to honor the former and ignore the latter, and history remembers him (or some non-magic chaste human with his name) as a devout Andrastian but completely leaves out the Elvhen religion part.

 

If the Inquisitor discovers the truth of Red Crossing (an Emerald Knight moved to Red Crossing and converted to Andrasteism, and his fellows were afraid that he intended to defect to their enemies, but learned too late that he didn't care about any gods but fell in love with a human woman and only pretended to convert to get her village's blessing to marry her), if you give the documents to the Chantry, they immediately latch onto the "elf who appeared to convert" part as "proof" that he 100% believed in Andraste, and that the ensuing battle at Red Crossing (which the text makes clear was a tragic misunderstanding from both sides) was the evil heathens trying to kill him for his Andrastian beliefs. Give the Red Crossing documents to the Chantry, and he's incorrectly remembered as a noble convert martyred for his Andrastian beliefs. Give it to the Dalish, and he's remembered for what he was; a jaded atheist who just pretended to convert to be with the human woman he loved.

 

If humans don't respect the "Elvhen" part of the "Andrastian/Elvhen" mix, why should the elves believe it's possible to mix the two religions without bad consequences for their own religion?

 

P.S. Humans are constantly shown to be wrong about their own history too. Heck, they deliberately rewrite history to suit their own ends--just look at Ameridan.

[YourFunnyUncle]

To be fair to the Dalish, humans have shown that they don't respect the Elvhen religion or believe it's possible to mix the two religions either, since they seem to think the Andraste part always cancels out the Elvhen part, and history remembers accordingly.

 

Ignoring for a moment that in "compromise between Andrasteism and Elvhen religion" scenarios, only elves are supposed to compromise and worship the human god but humans don't have to compromise and believe in or respect the Elvhen gods... (like Cassandra: "Why are we wasting time with this heathen nonsense?" at the Temple of Mythal, or asking a Dalish Inquisitor "And there is not room among your gods for one more?" when she herself doesn't volunteer to believe in any of your gods.)

 

Spoiler

 

Thedas history also shows that when elves give an inch, humans take a mile.

 

Ameridan followed both the Andrastian and Elvhen religion, but the humans chose to honor the former and ignore the latter, and history remembers him (or some non-magic chaste human with his name) as a devout Andrastian but completely leaves out the Elvhen religion part.

 

If the Inquisitor discovers the truth of Red Crossing (an Emerald Knight moved to Red Crossing and converted to Andrasteism, and his fellows were afraid that he intended to defect to their enemies, but learned too late that he didn't care about any gods but fell in love with a human woman and only pretended to convert to get her village's blessing to marry her), if you give the documents to the Chantry, they immediately latch onto the "elf who appeared to convert" part as "proof" that he 100% believed in Andraste, and that the ensuing battle at Red Crossing (which the text makes clear was a tragic misunderstanding from both sides) was the evil heathens trying to kill him for his Andrastian beliefs. Give the Red Crossing documents to the Chantry, and he's incorrectly remembered as a noble convert martyred for his Andrastian beliefs. Give it to the Dalish, and he's remembered for what he was; a jaded atheist who just pretended to convert to be with the human woman he loved.

 

If humans don't respect the "Elvhen" part of the "Andrastian/Elvhen" mix, why should the elves believe it's possible to mix the two religions without bad consequences for their own religion?

 

P.S. Humans are constantly shown to be wrong about their own history too. Heck, they deliberately rewrite history to suit their own ends--just look at Ameridan.

Er... I sense that you are arguing against a position that I do not hold. I'm not a pro-chantry zealot. Very far from it, in fact. The Chantry is a messed up institution whose founding principles have been lost in a sea of politics and self-interest.

 

All I am saying is that Sera felt alienated and shunned by the Dalish she encountered and as a result harbours a deep resentment that needs time to erase. Not that there was no reason that they became the way they are. I was looking at her comments specifically in terms of her personal experience, not in terms of a wider view of Theodosian politics.

 

The history of humans and elves in Thedas seems to be that of intolerance breeding intolerance on both sides. Neither side is blame-free, which is kind of the point. Ameridan might have been a point of reconciliation between the Dalish and the Chantry, but his loss helped tensions to spiral to the point at which we find them now.

[Ghost Gal]

Er... I sense that you are arguing against a position that I do not hold. I'm not a pro-chantry zealot. Very far from it, in fact. The Chantry is a messed up institution whose founding principles have been lost in a sea of politics and self-interest.

 

"Founding principles" being "Every religion is wicked and false except for ours, everyone who doesn't worship our religion is wicked and heathen, and everyone in the world has to convert our religion to bring our god and paradise back, otherwise all the world's suffering continues to be everyone else's fault but ours." Seriously, the Chantry's core belief is that they must "spread the Light to the Four Corners of the World, and only then will the Maker return to us." Is it any wonder the elves don't want to buy what they're selling?

 

All I am saying is that Sera felt alienated and shunned by the Dalish she encountered and as a result harbours a deep resentment that needs time to erase. Not that there was no reason that they became the way they are. I was looking at her comments specifically in terms of her personal experience, not in terms of a wider view of Theodosian politics.

 

The history of humans and elves in Thedas seems to be that of intolerance breeding intolerance on both sides. Neither side is blame-free, which is kind of the point. Ameridan might have been a point of reconciliation between the Dalish and the Chantry, but his loss helped tensions to spiral to the point at which we find them now.

 

And yet you jump to place blame squarely on the Dalish's shoulders when they do something wrong, but then pass the blame onto someone else (usually the Dalish) when a non-Dalish does something wrong.

 

Sera consistently says such hateful and mean-spirited and intolerant things about the Dalish and refuses to try to understand the Dalish's POV? Oh, the Dalish brought it upon themselves because they didn't always treat her right. The Dalish themselves don't trust human ways or promises or religion because humans have consistently shown throughout Thedas history that they don't respect the elves or their ways and try to force their will on them? Oh, it's the Dalish are still in the wrong for not being trusting.

 

If you're going to excuse Sera being intolerant to and about the Dalish because they didn't always treat her right, then you also need to excuse the Dalish for being intolerant about Andrastian ways since humans have been intolerant and treated them poorly too.

[YourFunnyUncle]

"Founding principles" being "Every religion is wicked and false except for ours, everyone who doesn't worship our religion is wicked and heathen, and everyone in the world has to convert our religion to bring our god and paradise back, otherwise all the world's suffering continues to be everyone else's fault but ours." Seriously, the Chantry's core belief is that they must "spread the Light to the Four Corners of the World, and only then will the Maker return to us." Is it any wonder the elves don't want to buy what they're selling?

Well... that's kind of the problem with many religions, and why I generally prefer to have my characters be or end up as atheists. That said, Andraste seems to have been much more tolerant and inclusive originally than the Chantry is now.
 

And yet you jump to place blame squarely on the Dalish's shoulders when they do something wrong, but then pass the blame onto someone else (usually the Dalish) when a non-Dalish does something wrong.

*Facepalm*

You've come into this thread and are projecting attitudes onto me based on a couple of posts without knowing a thing about what I actually think. I am not squarely placing blame on anyone's shoulders, but trying to show that the situation is nuanced and not black and white.
 

Sera consistently says such hateful and mean-spirited and intolerant things about the Dalish and refuses to try to understand the Dalish's POV? Oh, the Dalish brought it upon themselves because they didn't always treat her right. The Dalish themselves don't trust human ways or promises or religion because humans have consistently shown throughout Thedas history that they don't respect the elves or their ways and try to force their will on them? Oh, it's the Dalish are still in the wrong for not being trusting.

If you're going to excuse Sera being intolerant to and about the Dalish because they didn't always treat her right, then you also need to excuse the Dalish for being intolerant about Andrastian ways since humans have been intolerant and treated them poorly too.

Sera is one person with one life experience. She's had a pretty crappy life without family support. She's basically never felt secure or valued anywhere. At some point has clearly interacted with some of the more more intolerant of the Dalish, who have made her feel even worse about herself. She's also of the personality type that hates to be talked down to and has clearly developed a very defensive attitude. She's not blameless but one can understand her if one tries.

She is also capable of getting better with time in an accepting environment as Trespasser clearly demonstrates.

As to the situation that lead to the Exalted March, I'm saying only that the Dalish bear part of the blame. Not all of it, or even the majority, but they are not blame-free.

[Xilizhra]

Well... that's kind of the problem with many religions, and why I generally prefer to have my characters be or end up as atheists. That said, Andraste seems to have been much more tolerant and inclusive originally than the Chantry is now.

Fair enough, but Andraste was not part of the Chantry, did not found the Chantry, and on the whole has very little to do with the Chantry. She had no input whatsoever on the founding principles of the Chantry.

 

How tolerant she was probably depends on how much she actually said about the Maker being the only real god, and the necessity of spreading that belief to everyone in the world.

[Rel Fexive]

Jeez, people. Descend from your unnecessary elevated equines for moment, won't you?

 

Fair enough, but Andraste was not part of the Chantry, did not found the Chantry, and on the whole has very little to do with the Chantry. She had no input whatsoever on the founding principles of the Chantry.

 

That's what he said, yeah?

[Duelist]

Spoiler