159 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

Starlitegirlx,

 

"If you save the militia, then you get more men. But again, if you let the town get overrun or don't get agree to find the smith's daughter so they don't get the armor they need, what is the difference between that and letting the blight tear through it? We're stopping the blight to save the country. Do we throw away ever village with a problem along the way? Then we may stop the blight but at a very high cost. Still lots of dead people we might have been able to save. She and sten have no capacity to see this. This is a glaring fault on both of their parts. Save a country but forget about the people in it... not much logic in that if you want to really look at the practical side. So it takes a day or two to deal with it, you still saved redcliffe."

 

I always felt the same way. It is like they are clueless about war. I wonder is this Bioware's need to allow the evil option with no repercussions. The truth is if they loss that village they should have been short men and supplies for the war.

[Chashan]

Yes she did. She said it sounded like a good idea but a little messy. This means to me she thought it was a good deal. That should never be a good idea.  She gives you +4 if the elves are killed.

 

 

As for the question of Moral path:

 

Moral relativism is the view that moral judgments are true or false only relative to some particular standpoint (for instance, that of a culture or a historical period) and that no standpoint is uniquely privileged over all others.  It has often been associated with other claims about morality: notably, the thesis that different cultures often exhibit radically different moral values; the denial that there are universal moral values shared by every human society; and the insistence that we should refrain from passing moral judgments on beliefs and practices characteristic of cultures other than our own.

 

If you were a Ferelden citizen then this would be morally wrong.

 

The questions is how about Morrigan? It is implied that Morrigan's father, who is unknown, was likely of Chasind origin. Do the Chasind see this as an immoral act?

 

While it's been a couple days, I wanted to address a couple things there:

 

What would qualify a "Fereldan citizen" of the origins players got available? Cousland noble, Circle mage, Denerim city elf? All of them? Does it refer to the human kingdom, or the geographic location? Further, couldn't the fact that PCs are invariably no longer part of any of those, being conscripted into the non-aligned Grey Wardens as they are mean that the question is irrelevant to individual Wardens?

 

The backgrounds themselves are quite varied, I would argue, in terms of which ethnicity, part of society or even nation the PC comes from, and thus it is only natural to assume that there are indeed dramatically different ideas about morality. Cases in point, Orzammar and its caste system, Dalish and their rejection of human norms. Players themselves may repudiate the social norms of these backgrounds, yet it certainly would make sense for the PC's themselves to cling to them, as that is their upbringing, their heritage.

 

Even forfeiting these backgrounds, there is the Wardens' modus operandi to consider, which is to combat Blights by any means necessary - show-cased in a tragically misconstrued way by Warden Commander Dryden, which led to the Wardens' eviction from Fereldan soil.

Given that in most backgrounds the PC's ties with their past are quite irrevocably cut, PCs wholly embracing this as a new-found identity is not out of the question, either.

Hence, in the case of sacrificing non-combat personnel in order to improve the prowess of one of the couple Wardens, the only Wardens on Fereldan soil by the way may seem like a necessity.

Or, the Warden in question is simply a psychopath, there can be that too, of course. Then again, us players being allowed to spin our PC's character in such a broad way is a good thing, as I already mentioned.

 

Regarding Morri', a good dose of Chasind influence in her upbringing can be suspected, yes, just as the assumption that their more "savage" norms as compared to "civilized" Andrastianism approve some unsavoury means when compared to the latter value-system is likely correct.

 

Last, but by no means least, you said that:

 

 

 

I hope DAI doesn't turn her into Loghain or the Illusive man. This would be a shame.

 

I heartily disagree there. Accident or no, Mr Mac Tir is a very compelling character, on a wholly different level than Mr Harper, who sadly was butchered in ME3, character-wise. Morri' being right up there with him, intentionally or not, I'd view as a plus, really.
 

[Cobra's_back]

Starlitegirlx,

 

I also agree about Alistair. When he is the King they don't have a riot in the Alienage. It is his compassion for others that help to stop any future riots. 

[Cobra's_back]

Hi Chashan,

 

Chashan wrote: "What would qualify a "Fereldan citizen" of the origins players got available? Cousland noble, Circle mage, Denerim city elf? All of them? Does it refer to the human kingdom, or the geographic location? Further, couldn't the fact that PCs are invariably no longer part of any of those, being conscripted into the non-aligned Grey Wardens as they are mean that the question is irrelevant to individual Wardens?"

 

I'm playing HN. Cousland, Circle mage and City Elf fit this. The others are not. Could the PC be above the law? I don't think so. They have a warrant out for the wardens. Denerim guard tells you this. They just don't want to collect on it and they don't totally believe the charges. If you were conscripted it gets you out of jail once. I never read anything saying you are free to do whatever. 

 

Chashan wrote: "The backgrounds themselves are quite varied, I would argue, in terms of which ethnicity, part of society or even nation the PC comes from, and thus it is only natural to assume that there are indeed dramatically different ideas about morality. Cases in point, Orzammar and its caste system, Dalish and their rejection of human norms. Players themselves may repudiate the social norms of these backgrounds, yet it certainly would make sense for the PC's themselves to cling to them, as that is their upbringing, their heritage."

 

 

I totally agree. They are not from Ferelden.

 

Chashan wrote:

 

"Even forfeiting these backgrounds, there is the Wardens' modus operandi to consider, which is to combat Blights by any means necessary - show-cased in a tragically misconstrued way by Warden Commander Dryden, which led to the Wardens' eviction from Fereldan soil.

Given that in most backgrounds the PC's ties with their past are quite irrevocably cut, PCs wholly embracing this as a new-found identity is not out of the question, either."

 

Draining the life of several elves isn't going to help you win the war. If the game was realistic it should have landed you in jail. It is a law in Ferelden. If you are a dwarf in Ferelden should you be able to bypass their laws? I don't think so.

 

Chashan wrote: "Or, the Warden in question is simply a psychopath, there can be that too, of course. Then again, us players being allowed to spin our PC's character in such a broad way is a good thing, as I already mentioned."

 

I agree with you. If he does this he is a psychopath. The player plays it this way. That is your choice. My opinion only: It would be better role-playing if this got you a bounty or a bunch of elves and guards attaching you.

 

Chashan wrote:

 

"I heartily disagree there. Accident or no, Mr Mac Tir is a very compelling character, on a wholly different level than Mr Harper, who sadly was butchered in ME3, character-wise. Morri' being right up there with him, intentionally or not, I'd view as a plus, really."

 

I see what you mean. Good point, I always execute Mr Mac but he is well written. I would just hate to kill Morri.

 

Final note: I'm not trying to stop someone from playing this game a certain way. More choices is fine by me. The original post was who is the best Warden for Morri? All the posts have shared some excellent points.

[Tommy6860]

Alistair was always going to be weak as a grey warden because of his compassionate side which comes up in nearly every hard choice you have to make. He is only a grey warden because he didn't want to be a templar which actually makes sense given his compassionate side. He didn't want to be a mage killer. This way he's killing darkspawn which is better than mages.I would rather have a weak grey warden who has compassion then a powerful mage who has none.

 

Leliana expresses much more compassion, in spite of her past and I find her to be a stronger person, but that's me.

 

 

I don't think Morrigan extends more empathy than Sten. She is almost equal though her comments are a bit more childish. Actually, I don't recall one instance where she did express empathy now that I think of it. Not at redcliffe for the people. Not at the circle. She's fine with killing Connor. Jowan, she has empathy for but only because she can relate to him being an apostate. She is not capable of relating to anything outside of her own experience which is either remarkably selfish, remarkably limited in one's ability to see another perspective, or shows her utter lack of compassion as a human being. Not surprising given her upbringing, but it never really changes. Best you get is that if you tell her she could have been like the mages had she not been Flemeth she will back down (which is some improvement) or that you would make her a Golem which she is horrified at when it's her butt on the line. But if it were others, she thinks it is a powerful thing one should use, just as long as you don't use her. Alistair for all his issues would never think that. I guess that's why I prefer him to her and see her as quite limited.

 

She expresses empathy for Sten when they first encounter him locked up in the cage in Lothering, making claims to his proud heritage (as does Leliana). Aside from expressing the same for Jowan, (in which Leilana does as well), Alistair doesn't express the same for Sten or Jowan. In fact, Alstair appears to suggest that Jowan should go on to meet the fate he thinks he deserves. I am not saying Alistair is wrong when considering his pre-Warden upbringing, only that Morrigan isn't the pure evil many make her out to be. I cannot think of one instance where Sten expresses any empathy for a non-Qunari. Any time I did something murderous, I got approval from him. Pretty much the same with Zevran except if I agreed to slaughter the Dalish Elves in the Brecilian Forest when encountering The Lady for the first time.

 

I get that many DA:O lovers find Morrigan anathema to their morals and they loving the Alistairs of that world, but that is what DA:O is about. When considering the era of that timeline, I would place what the Templars and The Chantry do in the same light in what some do who hold extreme religious beliefs IRL today. Morrigan expressed disdain for holding back the freedoms of those not like her yet she never suggested that the Chantry folk and the Templars be slaughtered. I take the various personalities based on the world of Thedas..

 

If that is how all wardens should be, then I'm glad Alistair and I are starting a new crop of more humane and compassionate ones that will show you can get the job done without sacrificing your soul to do it. If I were to follow morrigan's lead I would be just like duncan and duncan has a huge lack of compasssion. True grey warden old school, but old school is dead now. I shape my own future.

 

This is why we play the games the way do, we make these games our own.

[Tommy6860]

I enjoy reading your post. I always have 90 to 100% approval with Morrigan. I do enjoy her conversation tree.

 

Thanks!

 

Morals are a function of history and society. This is a human noble that is romancing Morrigan. He doesn't hate her but the character HN would have problems justifying this as reasonable, legal  or moral.

 

Exactly, when considering the time, that era's social norms, religion, etc, it's fairly hard to hold morals and social norms we actually hold today in the same light as what the game offers. If one does that, that's fine. I rather play it according to its lore and history, than apply today's norms to it. Roman gladiator games would be off the wall immoral today, but considering those times, they worked for the most part then for the society of what Rome was then.

 

This is why I took the time to find out if she was from another culture. The information was from Wiki and it could be wrong. The point is she is not connected to the Ferelden culture and may see herself as one of the wild folk. The culture and home life would add to her beliefs. If this was acceptable to the Chasind, then it would be perfectly normal. Morrigan doesn't agree with everything Flemeth does. This is a credit to her. It is hard to gauge how far she would go in the pursuit of power? As for the dark ritual she does state that she didn't plan on having feeling for the HN but she does care for him.

 

Considering her upbringing, I think she exudes a bit of a good morality if she goes against Flemeth. The DR was but for one purpose made clear by Morrigan. whether or not it was to save her friend's/lover's life remains to be seen (although she expressed it as such), but I have to take it as the game made it out to be. As far as caring, Morrigan expresses her feelings rather deeply for the Warden when the approval is high and the relationship has advanced near the end of those possible conversations. She may not say it implicitly, but as what Morrigan is, she expresses it through her materialistic ways, like Morrigan's Ring. She also pines over what the meaning of love is when she presses the Warden on it being wrong to feel it.

 

To me the game is flawed when there are no repercussions for taking the life force of the elves. The slave trade was illegal and so was blood magic in Ferelden. It is pretty hard to bring evidence against Loghain if the Warden also committed a crime.  This is the part where I like Skyrim more. If you do something illegal, you go to jail. In Dragon Age, the warden lives in a world where everyone else is held accountable except the warden.

 

Oblivion and Morrowind were the same way, but those are different games. If going by role playing those games are very weak when choices one makes have little effect on plot states in the main storyline. I never read where (maybe Shadow of Light Dragon  knows) the Wardens are above the law, though the game plays out like that. I can kill with impunity with the only consequence to my actions is a lower likeability with certain companions and possible plots outcomes. I mean, I can kill the greedy salesman in Lothering after chasing off the sister after getting him to lower his prices for me, when I duped him into thinking I took his side. I can kill the caged prisoner in Ostagar as well as kill the wounded soldier I encounter near the beginning of the Korcari Wilds quest.

 

When considering what Loghain did and how he allowed Arl Howe to slaughter the Couslands out of Highever (along with allowing him to do other nefarious actions), it makes it's hard to frown on the morality of certain actions by the Warden when Loghain's actions allowed for some nasty people to arise from his betrayal. However, being conscripted into the Grey Wardens is for a specific reason and trumps crimes the Warden commits (as noted very much so if you play a City Elf origin and kill the Arl of Denerim's son). I cannot think of an instance where the Warden can kill a totally innocent person, just for the simple fact that they can. Until they take to task to ending The Blight, I got the impression they can act out as they see fit, almost like the Spectres in Mass Effect.

 

I guess I could just think of my Warden as like being a Justicar in the ME galaxy

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

That they deleted this as well as some other scenes I've seen that were not in the final product shows they made a clear and decisive action to remove much of the best parts of morrigan's development and quite deliberately so. They boiled her down to a cliche' which is pretty sad. I would have preferred to see she fully evolved.

 

I have to disagree that she's a cliche. She's hardly my favourite character and she doesn't grow up to be Susie Sunshine, but a discerning player doesn't need that scene (or others) to at least suspect she's evolved past her starting point. Her dialogue after the DR can further support her shift in personality.

 

I think putting *more* scenes in would have made it too blatant; I much prefer the subtle approach which leaves just enough wriggle room for reasonable doubt. 

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

...in the game blood mages tend to turn out very badly. Jowan is the only one we see that doesn't turn into an abomination or just become crazy evil unless probably if you let him escape which I never do because he's too whiny for me. That always ends badly with people who have power. They blame everyone else.

 

 

Actually, if you release Jowan there's a chance for a random encounter with him later in the game (I *think*. It could be a deleted scene, so maybe someone can confirm? I just remember that it's definitely in the dialogue editor). The scene goes that he's in disguise and helping to guide refugees to safety. You recognise him, and have the option to let him continue helping the refugees, or to identify him as a blood mage. If you do the latter, the refugees immediately turn on him.

[Tommy6860]

Actually, if you release Jowan there's a chance for a random encounter with him later in the game (I *think*. It could be a deleted scene, so maybe someone can confirm? I just remember that it's definitely in the dialogue editor). The scene goes that he's in disguise and helping to guide refugees to safety. You recognise him, and have the option to let him continue helping the refugees, or to identify him as a blood mage. If you do the latter, the refugees immediately turn on him.

 

I don't think it was deleted, but it was definitely broken. There's a fix here.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I don't think it was deleted, but it was definitely broken. There's a fix here.

 

Thanks Tommy

[Cobra's_back]

tommy 6860,

 

I love your post. I do get a little confused when the guard tells me there is a warrent for my arrest but they have no plans to arrest me. They actually hire me to clean up Denerim. I also remember they want to arrest me for the murder of Arl Howe. It is strange that once i leave the estate no one is hunting me anymore. 

 

Tommy wrote: "Until they take to task to ending The Blight, I got the impression they can act out as they see fit, almost like the Spectres in Mass Effect.

 

I guess I could just think of my Warden as like being a Justicar in the ME galaxy "

 

 

That sounds good to me. Thanks for explaining it.

[Tommy6860]

You're right on Sten's account as well a regarding Leliana. Alistair however to be fair disagrees because Jowan is a blood mage and aside from that we suffer no consequences for playing one (blood mage) or if we make our companions one, in the game blood mages tend to turn out very badly. Jowan is the only one we see that doesn't turn into an abomination or just become crazy evil unless probably if you let him escape which I never do because he's too whiny for me. That always ends badly with people who have power. They blame everyone else.

 

Jowan nevertheless expresses remorse for his actions. There is a side quest (that is broken but there's a fix) where if you release Jowan from the Redcliffe Castle dungeon, he expounds on this.

 

Alistair again sides against sten and Zevran because they are killers. As a rule wardens don't exist to randomly kill people. They exist to kill the darkspawn. If for some reason you had to kill a person, if it was justified to the grey warden they would do it, but alistair would likely always side against it. However, for a criminal and blood mage he sees it as justice or rather as they shouldn't be let loose on society. He gives you negatives even if you persuade him on Zev. -3 I think. Can only imagine what it is without persuasion. This is because Zev is a criminal assassin who just tried to kill us. Sten is a murderer of innocents. So really, you could say there is compassion involved... it is compassion for the people he believes they could harm.

 

Sten is not just a simple killer perse, along the lines of Zevran by any stretch of the measure; that would make his character too simplistic. He is a soldier with a strict zealous adherence to his religion. Zevran however is a different story with no less a zealotry to his dark background, though he is complex as well. Having said that, what the Templars and the Chantry do are no less a form of zealotry that many times is acted out in brutality. The story is much deeper than just individual personalities making it the entire theme; I feel it is the opposite. It's that way for me anyway. If any killing happens in the game at the hands of the Warden, there is always a reasoning that can be applied to it, whether or not it is an outright crime or immorality is the point of the gamer's mindset with the world at hand. That's my take on it. I do however appreciate the thoughts of others.

 

Morrigan is surprising on this point. I'll listen to what she says. I think she just thinks it's better to let him go than die pointlessly. Now given how she is, this is more like not caring about people he could harm. Leliana's choice is out of kindness and specific compassion. Just because someone agrees or disagrees doesn't make them directly compassionate. There is the bigger picture of that person's motivations or what their perspective is. Leliana is all for second chances above what a person has done. So that is always her stance on things which comes directly from her own wanting a second chance. Alistair is all for justice. He believes in protecting society from larger threats as well as protecting the group from Zev and possibly sten. Morrigan is just Morrigan. Her motivations here... I'm not sure if they are compassion or just some kind of logic. Again, I don't always get her motivations but usually they are directly related to herself in the same way they are for leliana. She wouldn't want to be caged to die like that so he should be let go. Also, her disdain for the chantry. What they do is wrong to her (and most players). But he is a murderer. This doesn't factor into her thoughts at all. I don't let him go anymore because frankly I don't need him or his beliefs. He did murder and I'm fine to leave him there. less work for me. Again, it has to do with what motivates each companion as to why they think what they do.

 

I don't see how you put a light on Morrigan wanting Sten released out of empathy, somehow equates her not caring about people he could harm, no more than Leliana would be doing the same thing while expressing her empathy in the same manner wanting Sten released. A second chance (empathy) doesn't necessarily have to be expressed with words of compassion. He admitted to murder during the party's initial encounter with him in the cage, so I don't see that Morrigan didn't account for that. Leliana also got the same dialogue at that time, yet she gets a pass on her empathy?  Keep in mind that a blight is coming as well. I am not trying to hit on the same point over and over again, but Morrigan makes it clear in no uncertain terms (this from  the outset of right before she joined the party), that she does things out of practicality. Is she a cold person, hard to endear?, most definitely. Is she an outright evil and heartless witch lacking compassion, not at all in my experiences with her.

 

Did you ever get Alistair's cynical questions regarding the Warden's thoughts regarding the other companions at camp? Is it jealously, being self-centered, or both that he asked them and needed to know? I found it odd that only he was the one who asked those questions. I'll admit that maybe one or more of the others may have posited those same queries, but I never encountered them.

[Cobra's_back]

Tommy6860,

 

I just did the ending with Morrigan. When she talks about her feeling for the Warden she does look like she is about to cry. She did tell him it was her Mother's idea and she did tell him she would have to go if he didn't do it. She does say she is more determined to get him to say yes because it will save his life. At the gate if you say I wish you would change your mind about leaving it looks as if she is going to cry again. She said she wish she could stay but can't.

 

I odd part is the bed scene before the battle. All wardens look scared ones in active romance 100% or just friends. I wonder if this is a mistake in the game. Why do they all have that scared look.

 

It reminds me of the "Alistair puts himself on the throne" if you let him fight Loghain but later gives you the same -2 and states that you put him on the throne when he just took it. I was always confused about that.

[Tommy6860]

Tommy6860,

 

I just did the ending with Morrigan. When she talks about her feeling for the Warden she does look like she is about to cry. She did tell him it was her Mother's idea and she did tell him she would have to go if he didn't do it. She does say she is more determined to get him to say yes because it will save his life. At the gate if you say I wish you would change your mind about leaving it looks as if she is going to cry again. She said she wish she could stay but can't.

 

I odd part is the bed scene before the battle. All wardens look scared ones in active romance 100% or just friends. I wonder if this is a mistake in the game. Why do they all have that scared look.

 

It reminds me of the "Alistair puts himself on the throne" if you let him fight Loghain but later gives you the same -2 and states that you put in on the throne when he just took it. I was always confused about that.

 

I found that odd as well, especially considering I had a very intimate romance with her. it wasn't like we were new to each other. But, having said that, she made it known what the DR was for, so there may have been a bit of fear in the interaction considering what was to come of it. I pretty much left it to my imagination.

[Cobra's_back]

starlitegirlx,

 

I am concern about DA3 and Morrigan. I did see Zev in DA2 so i know the path they took for him. I'm concern they are going to make her a villain. 

[Tommy6860]

I'm saying that each person is motivated from their own history. It's made very evident. Alistair is a good boy. A boy scout. Bad guys get punished. We don't set them free. This is really what I feel is the motivator behind the landsmeet if you don't kill loghain. I never really understood it being so severe until I realized that each character is framing things from their perspective. So really, they are all quite limited and narrow that way. Leliana believes in second chances because she wants one or had one. Alistair believes in justice because he has that instilled in him from the chantry. Sten has his own beliefs from the quinari. Morrigan has beliefs Flemeth taught her. I don't know fully what they are beyond the weak shall perish sort of thing you get at the circle... that they allowed themselves to be treated like this. This is how she was raised. It is her belief system.

 

I may have seemed like I am making it simplistic but I am going by how they are designed in the game. Each character follows their own beliefs whether it is a code they were raised by or some ideology they hold like Leliana. Never do any of the characters actually truly have an arc that allows them to change from this pattern at least not that I can discern. No sten is not a murderer but his reaction came out of his quinari beliefs. Zev is how he is from his beliefs that were formed by being raised as an assassin. They can and will fight for you and your cause. Zev actually seems to show what might be an arc where with friendship he stops looking out for just himself and is more of a team player willing to help you even at the cost of more crows coming after him. Jowan shows remorse. It appears genuine.

 

Well, they can change from their patterns, substantially. Morrigan expresses empathy and even love/devout friendship after a time. Leliana resorts back to her days of criminal intrigue, despite her influences from joining the Chantry sisterhood after escaping Orlais. Heck, I can even defile the most sacred thing she ever encountered and she sticks by me. Sten reflects on my soldiery with great respect. Zevran turns his back on the Crows when that confrontation occurs. Alistair certainly gets a little dark with his allowance of Loghain to be able to live and also engaging in sex with multiple partners. (I prefer the Leliana/Zevran aspect in this for extra sauciness.) Note that of all of the possible lovers, Morrigan is the only one who steadfastly remains monogamous, that must count for something

 

As for Alistair's questions, I think it's just tossed in there. It stands out as just sort of a strange dialogue to me. I always felt it was kind of 'werid'. There is no actual purpose to it. Nothing gained but a few points maybe. I don't read anything into that because frankly, it's just weird and not really fitting anything really. Not jealousy or anything. I mean really, what purpose does it fit? You wonder maybe jealousy? But how so? Perhaps him probing except it just doesn't really do anything .... the only points you get I believe are for Morrigan, in which case I think that boils down to his dislike of her. I don't see that a jealousy but rather as another place where they want to illustrate that. Nothing you say with Leliana really changes his tone. Nothing you say on sten changes his tone. Morrigan is the one where I sense you could get negatives but I always get positives. So I think it's mainly about his dislike AND distrust of her, showing some of his chantry upbringing and some of the fact that personally by that point, she's been a ****** to him so far. Rude about him being sad that the wardens and Duncan died to the point where if I were really there I would have probably said something nasty to her for being so damn insensitive. And that is just another example of Morrigan being an idiot. All these people he spent the past half a year with died in the most unexpected and shocking way (learning that loghain abandoned them) and he's supposed to be cheery? Yeah, I'd be asking about her too I suppose. Not just because that shows some seriously lack of compassion but because what kind of a person mocks someone in that state as she did in such a childish way?

 

But the questions were there nevertheless and make it part of his background, I couldn't dismiss that even if it had been from another companion. It revealed a bit of who he is for me. I did tire of him pining over the deaths of men in the King's army and more so over Duncan. The first few times I understood, but we move on. I think for me, had he not done that, I may have liked him more than I already do and I do like him, it's hard not to. His humor is great.

 

Maybe I just don't like morrigan. Perhaps it is that simple. I've tried but in the end, it seems that I just keep seeing her as not likeable by my standards. Even as a character in a story. I guess that is my flaw that I will have to live with. I have no appreciation for her no matter how much I tried... just couldn't get there. Ah well, not really a concern. It's only a character in a story.

 

I am in no way trying to persuade you to liking her, you either do or you don't based on your experiences with her during gameplay. Believe me that I completely respect your take on Morrigan. You are among many people who do not care for her one iota and I understand why. I am one of those who empathizes with her upbringing and did find her endearing in her hard stone cold ways when she began to break down and express herself. I also consider the timeline of the game since it seems to come from the Dark Ages. I felt as if my expressions of affection and care for her made her feel that I can be trusted, but that is who I am anyway, even IRL. I never once let her down, in love or friendship if I played her as a companion for most of the game. I'll admit, I loved Leliana more, but she was too damn easy to get and easily hardened.

[Tommy6860]

I think this is why I have a problem with Morrigan. Her character and the responses don't make sense. Knowing they deliberately left stuff out that has been restored, well, people now are painting her in a certain light but there are things that just don't make sense. Scenes they took out and I'm going on what I see which is inconsistency. So it's not so much the character as it is the way they screwed it up. Laziness and changing their minds butchered her into a bit of a hack job. She had more to her before they took out those scenes that can be restored. I won't be playing them all because I am not going to romance her. But I think that is why I don't get any kind of good feeling from her, because they had a full character then chose to take out parts that made her more well rounded and left her more questionable quite deliberately. That to me causes her to feel very off. Perhaps it is my background in psychology that comes into play here. Certain characters feel more well rounded and developed a bit more. Ones that don't always stand out to me. She stands out as something not quite right. I'm not one who likes to fill in the blanks on characters like hers. When I do I err on the side of distrust and dislike.

 

Yes, as Shadow of Light Dragon pointed out, this may have lent more emotion to the reality of the DR. As I mentioned before regarding fear, I made Morrigan explain what would ensue after the DR and tell me of the child. Having then acquired this info, I think it is understandable for the mating scene with the Warden, had the appearance of reluctance or even the look of concern or fear on the face of the Warden. That was my take.

 

[Cobra's_back]

 

Yes, as Shadow of Light Dragon pointed out, this may have lent more emotion to the reality of the DR. As I mentioned before regarding fear, I made Morrigan explain what would ensue after the DR and tell me of the child. Having then acquired this info, I think it is understandable for the mating scene with the Warden, had the appearance of reluctance or even the look of concern or fear on the face of the Warden. That was my take.

 

 

 

I made her tell me as well. The sad look at the gate is pretty tough to look at. I made this guy a Chancellor. Her leaving him hurts but he is determined to move on. I don't think I'll have him follow her. This guy always let her make the first move and told her he wasn't going to ever hurt her. I believe I'll let this guy keep his promise and skip witch hunt with him. He promised  not to follow. Just maybe he should honor her wish.

 

If there is another war in DA3, I might want this guy in it or I'll take my favorite City Elf. I heard bioware will allows a section for the warden. Maybe it is just a quest.