I think that Compassion tainted becomes Despair, much like Faith when tainted becomes Pride. I figured he started out as a spirit of Compassion, then the death of the original Cole plus being in such an awful place corrupted him over time.
This is how I've imagined him since reading Asunder. Good explanation, Tash.
Natashina: I think he's posted pretty much that same thing before, and then didn't really give any explanation for it.
My take is that a spirit that's strong enough to manifest at all, like Cole does, is not weak at all. He's most likely a spirit of Hope, being corrupted--compassion is weaker, and it's Hope that corrupts into Despair. We also know he's strong enough to manifest a weapon for himself.
Again, he didn't start out as a demon. I would also argue that he is alive, in his own sense, even if he isn't "real."
Im still not 100% sure if I would like him as a full time companion (assuming he is even in DAI), but a side companion maybe? Kinda like Talis was. Just my random thought anyway 
I do LOVE the character ... but I dont know, Im just not feeling him as a party member at the moment 
I think that Compassion tainted becomes Despair, much like Faith when tainted becomes Pride. I figured he started out as a spirit of Compassion, then the death of the original Cole plus being in such an awful place corrupted him over time.
I always thought of Cole's spirit thing was original Mercy. Yes, it was compassion that first drew the spirit to him but it was mercy that gave it an end. In the story when we do read about Cole he is ending lives in a kindness which could be viewed as a merciful act. Also it was stated that Cole did die in the tower but it isn't stated as to how he died: did he starve, suicide, or who is to say it wasn't this spirit, It might be that it was original compassion and tainted into something else, but am willing to believe that it was something else as well. And mercy can at times be viewed as a good and bad thing which is seen in Asunder, till the very end at least.
remember when justice and anders merged it became vengence... so wouldnt a spirit merging with a being in the real world also mutate to something different? they never went too in depth with wynne's spirit so we only have anders to go off of...
I don't think it was ever really confirmed either way if Justice had actually become Vengeance.
He continued to refer to himself as Justice ... but I gotta admit, he was pretty jacked up in the head by the time we saw him in DA2 
I always thought of Cole's spirit thing was original Mercy. Yes, it was compassion that first drew the spirit to him but it was mercy that gave it an end. In the story when we do read about Cole he is ending lives in a kindness which could be viewed as a merciful act. Also it was stated that Cole did die in the tower but it isn't stated as to how he died: did he starve, suicide, or who is to say it wasn't this spirit, It might be that it was original compassion and tainted into something else, but am willing to believe that it was something else as well. And mercy can at times be viewed as a good and bad thing which is seen in Asunder, till the very end at least.
Originally, I actually thought Cole might be a Compassion spirit that corrupted into Mercy, possibly because he killed the original Cole out of compassion. But now I doubt it works in the lore, and there's nothing to indicate he killed the original Cole. Cole's compulsion towards people who despair seems to fit better into the idea that he was originally a Hope spirit that corrupted into a Despair demon, or something in-between. Also looking at what would draw something like a Hope spirit... maybe a boy mage who had nothing left but hope that he would survive? Cole says he held the original Cole's hand to the end. Maybe literally watching original Cole's hope die was too much and corrupted him along with imprinting original Cole's psyche.
I haven't actually read the novel but...knowing the spoilers I do about Cole, I think I'd enjoy having him as a companion. Just a first impression while mulling the idea over. I ordered prettymuch all the dragon age novels the other day after giving the first two to a bud as a birthday present years ago and now I'm pretty excited to read Asunder and The Masked Empire. I hope I don't end up disliking Cole like some people seem to for reasons that I'm sure are sound.
I haven't actually read the novel but...knowing the spoilers I do about Cole, I think I'd enjoy having him as a companion. Just a first impression while mulling the idea over. I ordered prettymuch all the dragon age novels the other day after giving the first two to a bud as a birthday present years ago and now I'm pretty excited to read Asunder and The Masked Empire. I hope I don't end up disliking Cole like some people seem to for reasons that I'm sure are sound.
Him being a monster isn't enough reason to dislike him?
Him being a monster isn't enough reason to dislike him?
He's a tragic hero!
He's a tragic hero!
He's a demon, A spirit deluded and delusional enough, into thinking it was a person, nothing more.
There is nothing Greek about him.
He's a demon, A spirit deluded and delusional enough, into thinking it was a person, nothing more.
There is nothing Greek about him.
Corrupted spirit. There is a difference
*sniff*
Corrupted spirit. There is a difference
*sniff*
That's your own opinion, i am of the mind he was always a demon, also not really.
Demons are demons.
they developed his character too well for him to be a simple demon
That's your own opinion, i am of the mind he was always a demon, also not really.
Demons are demons.
Demons are spirits, malevolent spirits.
I'd rather have a monster in my party than someone Lawful Good any day, personally.
Well, mainly because not many people can make Lawful Good interesting but that's beside the point...
Demons are spirits, malevolent spirits.
And all spirits are bad news.
You know all my views on this Elu.
And all spirits are bad news.
You know all my views on this Elu.
You will see the light....one day.
One of the reasons I'm not overly keen on having him as a companion is I don't see him as being fun to have a long on quests that don't directly involve him.
Learning more about his story would be fun, but at all other times I can't imagine his party banter as being particularly amusing.
Though I suppose they could go the comically serious route with him.
One of the reasons I'm not overly keen on having him as a companion is I don't see him as being fun to have a long on quests that don't directly involve him.
Learning more about his story would be fun, but at all other times I can't imagine his party banter as being particularly amusing.
Though I suppose they could go the comically serious route with him.
If he's a companion, this might be an insight into what the banter might be like.
its just too easy to mess with cassandra, isnt it
Master Warder Z...? Hey, aren't you the same person who argued so strongly about Cole on my Asunder Character thread back at the Social Bioware forum? Well, if so it's lovely to see you out and arguing about again
He's a demon, A spirit deluded and delusional enough, into thinking it was a person, nothing more.
There is nothing Greek about him.
But, onto the matter at hand, yes? I do love a good Cole debate.
Personally, I wouldn't argue that Cole is a hero, nor that he's a villain. He's a tragic character but I don't know that I think he's one who should merit forgiveness or not (I think that would involve a more in-depth knowledge of whether or not all his victims wanted to die or not, but that is neither here nor there, presently).
I would, however, argue that there is a lot that's Greek about him. In comparison, we can look at the Iliad for a bit of juxtaposition. In the account of the Trojan War, Achilles is a very selfish, vain character. He spends the majority of the poem sulking about how the woman he treats as a possession was taken from him and refuses to rejoin the battle's until Agamemnon satisfies his demands. Achilles rejoins the battle only after his friend/possible lover was killed on the field, and once more this isn't for a greater good exactly, rather it is to satisfy his own vengeance against Hector for having killed Patroclus. The entire tale is about his rage and his desires.
Cole's is about self-preservation through killings and a desire to be seen and remain 'real.' (Well, it's deeper than that but I don't think I can show all of my fascination with his character and not make this post longer than I expect it will be...)
Greek philosophy can often be boiled down to ideals and primal emotions - something I think can be seen on a very base level with Cole (who, much like a child, has a bit of an 'Id' quality to him, if you'll allow me to make the Freudian reference).
Now, we could talk about Cole in relation to Platonic or Aristotelian ethics, views of justice and happiness and friendship (ooh, a Aristotelian account of Cole and Rhys' relationship would be fun! Or, or, an account of Cole in comparison to Plato and Aristotle's models of the soul!) if you'd like. However, I think this should be enough for the moment.
Master Warder Z...? Hey, aren't you the same person who argued so strongly about Cole on my Asunder Character thread back at the Social Bioware forum? Well, if so it's lovely to see you out and arguing about again
But, onto the matter at hand, yes? I do love a good Cole debate.
Personally, I wouldn't argue that Cole is a hero, nor that he's a villain. He's a tragic character but I don't know that I think he's one who should merit forgiveness or not (I think that would involve a more in-depth knowledge of whether or not all his victims wanted to die or not, but that is neither here nor there, presently).
I would, however, argue that there is a lot that's Greek about him. In comparison, we can look at the Iliad for a bit of juxtaposition. In the account of the Trojan War, Achilles is a very selfish, vain character. He spends the majority of the poem sulking about how the woman he treats as a possession was taken from him and refuses to rejoin the battle's until Agamemnon satisfies his demands. Achilles rejoins the battle only after his friend/possible lover was killed on the field, and once more this isn't for a greater good exactly, rather it is to satisfy his own vengeance against Hector for having killed Patroclus. The entire tale is about his rage and his desires.
Cole's is about self-preservation through killings and a desire to be seen and remain 'real.' (Well, it's deeper than that but I don't think I can show all of my fascination with his character and not make this post longer than I expect it will be...)
Greek philosophy can often be boiled down to ideals and primal emotions - something I think can be seen on a very base level with Cole (who, much like a child, has a bit of an 'Id' quality to him, if you'll allow me to make the Freudian reference).
Now, we could talk about Cole in relation to Platonic or Aristotelian ethics, views of justice and happiness and friendship (ooh, a Aristotelian account of Cole and Rhys' relationship would be fun! Or, or, an account of Cole in comparison to Plato and Aristotle's models of the soul!) if you'd like. However, I think this should be enough for the moment.
I have been here since the switchover, Bioware has captured by interest and i enjoy their forums well enough to remain, i suppose.
Well, Well some one with knowledge? Understanding of the subject? School or self taught i wonder, anyway that doesn't matter. I could spend a fair amount of time on this subject myself but i won't given that while this would technically be on topic it isn't the place for a debate based around theater themes.
See that's the thing, i don't apply deep philosophical effect to his action, i could mind you given that if anything he wouldn't fit the figure of Greek Tragedy but rather Shakespearean Tragedy given that his "delusion" stems from himself, and not conscious desire such as the case was with many Greek figures. You see common elements shared by many playwrits but ultimately i'd argue that only in the barest sense would he be applied to the Greek version given he isn't apply conscious effort. You are making the argument that he fits Platonic themes of Justice and self actualization?
Now I'd argue since his need to kill is base, as instinct it would indeed qualify as a Primal and not a conscious decision, But that's the very issue i take with those who defend him, its in essence the same as defending a Shark or Virus, conscious ill intent or no, its an engine of destruction. Leopards don't change their spots, whatever old trite and tired allegory you want to use.
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