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[Nocte ad Mortem]

I kind of doubt Cole is going to be Lambert, because they'd probably actually have Cole as a warrior if he possessed a templar. They listed him as a rogue in the survey, so his concept was probably still Cole as he was originally.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

 

My concern is the same one in the Adrian thread:  In order to introduce a character from the books to the game, even as a NPC, the writing team would have to set it up properly.  Not everyone read the books and to assume such could leave some players in the dark.  Why should they care about Adrian, Rhys or Cole if they didn't read the story?

 

 If the writing team could manage to do a new introduction for unfamiliar players, while keeping it fresh for those that know the story, then we could be onto something.  I think the writing team is capable of it, but if Adrian or Cole were to appear in the game, it would be a first.  I believe it would be the first characters to come from the books into the games, rather than the other way around.  

 

Tricky business to be sure.

 

@Brass I just looked through those screenshots.  Where is Cole supposedly at?  I didn't see anyone that looked blond and slight of build that fits.

 

Well, honestly, I don't think it would be that hard. All the characters already have previous experiences and backstories. They'd probably just introduce them like they'd introduce everyone. We don't really need a massive exposition about what everyone else has done with their lives up until that point, so the book characters don't really either. They just need a basic introduction like everyone else. 

[Brass_Buckles]

 

My concern is the same one in the Adrian thread:  In order to introduce a character from the books to the game, even as a NPC, the writing team would have to set it up properly.  Not everyone read the books and to assume such could leave some players in the dark.  Why should they care about Adrian, Rhys or Cole if they didn't read the story?

 

 If the writing team could manage to do a new introduction for unfamiliar players, while keeping it fresh for those that know the story, then we could be onto something.  I think the writing team is capable of it, but if Adrian or Cole were to appear in the game, it would be a first.  I believe it would be the first characters to come from the books into the games, rather than the other way around.  

 

Tricky business to be sure.

 

@Brass I just looked through those screenshots.  Where is Cole supposedly at?  I didn't see anyone that looked blond and slight of build that fits.

 

 

They brought in Loghain from the books before, so it isn't without precedent.  Honestly, after having read about Loghain, I liked him even less than I did when I first played the game.  He was a treacherous sort.

 

Also, Cole MIGHT--and as I said, it could be the Inquisitor--be in the screenshot where the party is fighting the troll.  There is a dual-wielding rogue in that shot on the left, wearing green.  It certainly isn't necessarily him, but it could be, based on what we know about Cole's appearance.

[Frikipolleces]

I think we should stop making assumptions about demons, spirits and abominations, because in fact, we don't know sh*t about those things. Most of what we think we know comes from the Chantry and the templars teachings, whick are far from neutral or "scientific".

 

For example, if it wasn't for Wynne, we would still be thinking that every abomination is diabolical. There isn't any other proof of the opposite, Justice got corrupted.

 

Rhys's speech at the end of asunder sum this up really well, though I can't really remember the exact words. I don't think we can explain Cole with what we know, just as we can't explain Flemeth. Just my two cents.

[CENIC]

Another thing perhaps related to the above, is that I've suspected that Lambert might actually be a mage. Cole notices at one point that Lambert has something different inside him from other templars. It's also apparently how Lambert sensed Cole's presence that one time. The other person Cole has this kind of reaction to is Wynne, which is obviously because of her Faith spirit. So at first I thought that maybe Lambert was an abomination, but then I started thinking that he could be a mage... a mage-hating templar mage is really strange to think about, but he DOES come from Tevinter. If he was a mage, that might make it easier for Cole to take control of him.

I was hoping that what Cole sensed/what allowed Lambert to sense Cole was a special ability related to the Seekers.
We don't know much about what exactly makes Seekers different from Templars, but in the codex entry from DA2 I believe it was implied that Seekers have more effective means to root out and combat blood magic.

[TheLittleBird]

I think we should stop making assumptions about demons, spirits and abominations, because in fact, we don't know sh*t about those things. Most of what we think we know comes from the Chantry and the templars teachings, whick are far from neutral or "scientific".

 

For example, if it wasn't for Wynne, we would still be thinking that every abomination is diabolical. There isn't any other proof of the opposite, Justice got corrupted.

 

Rhys's speech at the end of asunder sum this up really well, though I can't really remember the exact words. I don't think we can explain Cole with what we know, just as we can't explain Flemeth. Just my two cents.

 

I'm of the same view on the subject. 

All around on the forums I see people trying to explain Flemeth or Cole. With limited knowledge on the respective subjects.

[dragondreamer]

I'm of the same view on the subject. 

All around on the forums I see people trying to explain Flemeth or Cole. With limited knowledge on the respective subjects.

 

Because theorizing is fun. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Cole better be a companion. His way too interesting to be just ignored or put as a side character.

[Brass_Buckles]

I was hoping that what Cole sensed/what allowed Lambert to sense Cole was a special ability related to the Seekers.
We don't know much about what exactly makes Seekers different from Templars, but in the codex entry from DA2 I believe it was implied that Seekers have more effective means to root out and combat blood magic.

 

In other words, stop discussing Cole's nature in a thread specifically about discussing Cole.  I'm with Dragondreamer on this one, theorizing is fun and I don't see any reason we should stop doing so.

 

You know, someone was saying in the Two Companion Slots Left thread that maybe Dorian was a better fit for the game, because of the Tevinter Imperium.  But I think due to all the Fade Tears, and the chance we'll be visiting the Fade quite frequently, Cole might be of more use to the Inquisition.    Who better to help us deal with matters involving the Fade than a native denizen of the Fade?

 

It may also be an interesting tie-in to Cole's story if he has to decide whether to return to the Fade and stay there, or stay in the mortal realm among mortals, carving out his own niche there.

[Flurdt Vash]

But it worked on Cole. It wouldn't have worked on him if he wasn't a demon. The very last page seals the deal for me. 

 

He said:  "There was a Cole... you forgot him in that cell....I went to him and held his hand in the darkness...."

 

Then he got corrupted. The fact that he coldly tells Lambert that:   "I'm not helpless anymore,"  makes me think he's no longer confused. He knows what he really is now.

 

Exactly. the "Im not helpless anymore" .... just the way that last part plays out, to me hes no longer the confused little Cole, hes now aware, and that would make a Rouge/Mage/Abomination-type Invisi-person VERY dangerous   At least thats what I take from it

[Brass_Buckles]

Exactly. the "Im not helpless anymore" .... just the way that last part plays out, to me hes no longer the confused little Cole, hes now aware, and that would make a Rouge/Mage/Abomination-type Invisi-person VERY dangerous   At least thats what I take from it

 

He's aware of what he is, but the people who should have detected him as a demon if he were one, didn't.  That includes Rhys.  He may not quite be a good spirit, but to say he's an outright demon wouldn't necessarily be right, either, unless his corruption was completed upon attacking Lambert.

 

I am personally not entirely convinced he killed Lambert, even though it seems most likely.  You get that impression, but Cole also chose not to kill someone who begged him for death, because Rhys told him it was wrong to do that.  Knowing that he's not "real" might have had an effect on whether or not he'd listen to human beings now, but we only know that Lambert disappeared.  He could have been killed and disposed of, as justice for the death and disappearance of Cole the Boy.  He could have been possessed, if we believe that Cole is actually a demon, but considering that what Cole appears to want is to not be invisible, I'd think someone would have seen him if that were the case.  Or, Cole could have found a way to make Lambert invisible, unnoticeable and readily forgettable--which is unlikely but also possible.  It isn't that people don't see Cole, they just don't notice him--templars walked around him without even realizing they had done so.

[Flurdt Vash]

With out a doubt a world of possibilities All this convo as of late on the subject ............. I think Im going to go re-read the three current Dragon Age novels before the new one hits . I love those books

[Nocte ad Mortem]

People argue that Cole is a demon as if we know for sure that makes him objectively evil. We don't know that. We don't really know what the nature of demons is at all. That's what makes his character the most interesting to me. Yes, we see demons that act in a way that we could call evil by the majority view. We also see plenty of humans acting that way. Some demons manipulate, kill people to get what they want, even kill people just for fun. So do some humans. In fact, some of our own companions have done really horrible things. It could easily be argued that some of them have done far worse things than Cole. A lot of people accept those characters have redeemed themselves. Why do we assume Cole can't also make an active decision to do the same? We don't really have any example that a spirit/demon can't. 

[Brass_Buckles]

People argue that Cole is a demon as if we know for sure that makes him objectively evil. We don't know that. We don't really know what the nature of demons is at all. That's what makes his character the most interesting to me. Yes, we see demons that act in a way that we could call evil by the majority view. We also see plenty of humans acting that way. Some demons manipulate, kill people to get what they want, even kill people just for fun. So do some humans. In fact, some of our own companions have done really horrible things. It could easily be argued that some of them have done far worse things than Cole. A lot of people accept those characters have redeemed themselves. Why do we assume Cole can't also make an active decision to do the same? We don't really have any example that a spirit/demon can't. 

 

Well, the trouble with Cole is that a demon wouldn't have come to comfort someone who was praying for help--especially since Cole appears to be becoming a demon of despair.  He would be more inclined to feed on a despairing person.

 

There is also an alternate possibility that he's not a spirit or a demon at all, but something else.  Such as a god.  I don't think that is the case, but imagine if it were.  Someone prays to the Maker, and the Maker decides to answer.  Again, I don't think that's the case.  I think maybe Cole the Boy managed to draw help from the spirit world, but the spirit couldn't do anything more than offer him comfort.  Then being in the mortal realm began a process of corruption.

 

If Cole were always a demon, though, he could have just been too confused to feed on Cole the Boy at first.  that is a possibility.

 

What I do believe is that if he is a party member, we'll be able to make him a full-blown demon or reverse that process.  It will be up to us.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Well, the trouble with Cole is that a demon wouldn't have come to comfort someone who was praying for help--especially since Cole appears to be becoming a demon of despair.  He would be more inclined to feed on a despairing person.

 

There is also an alternate possibility that he's not a spirit or a demon at all, but something else.  Such as a god.  I don't think that is the case, but imagine if it were.  Someone prays to the Maker, and the Maker decides to answer.  Again, I don't think that's the case.  I think maybe Cole the Boy managed to draw help from the spirit world, but the spirit couldn't do anything more than offer him comfort.  Then being in the mortal realm began a process of corruption.

 

If Cole were always a demon, though, he could have just been too confused to feed on Cole the Boy at first.  that is a possibility.

 

What I do believe is that if he is a party member, we'll be able to make him a full-blown demon or reverse that process.  It will be up to us.

I think he probably was a spirit of hope and has started the process of becoming a demon of despair, as some other people have suspected. That's just my personal opinion. I also think probably the arch of his story, if he makes it into Inquisition, will be whether he is redeemed or will become a demon in full. It will be interesting to see, if he becomes a demon, if he will turn on you. If there is a tipping point, it's possible that he will no longer be sustainable as a cooperative party member and you may have to fight him as a demon. 

 

But I do wonder how far a spirit can go and still come back. I wonder if it's possible to fully realize the demonic form and still come back. It would be even more interesting if Cole started out as a demon of despair, rather than as a spirit and becoming a demon. 

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

I like Cole and I am hoping we will see him in the game. Companion or not, it'd be nice even if there was a quest involving him. I do think the dual wielding character depicted in the "giant fight" picture could possibly be him. As stated elsewhere, the character doesn't evoke the same presence as the Inquisitor.

I don't think Cole will be a romance due to Gaider's stance on it. Not to mention, the only way I could see that working out was if he showed interest in the PC, and the romance was set up like an awkward teenage crush due to his immaturity. Which, I guess if the PC is a conduit to the Fade and one of the few people who could actively communicate with him it isn't too hard to imagine. But considering how many people were upset about Anders flirting with the PC and turning him down resulted in rivalry, this is unlikely.

I liked the earlier theory on Cole the Boy/Spirit > Demon(?). That's the most sensical one I have read to date.

[Brass_Buckles]

I like Cole and I am hoping we will see him in the game. Companion or not, it'd be nice even if there was a quest involving him. I do think the dual wielding character depicted in the "giant fight" picture could possibly be him. As stated elsewhere, the character doesn't evoke the same presence as the Inquisitor.

I don't think Cole will be a romance due to Gaider's stance on it. Not to mention, the only way I could see that working out was if he showed interest in the PC, and the romance was set up like an awkward teenage crush due to his immaturity. Which, I guess if the PC is a conduit to the Fade and one of the few people who could actively communicate with him it isn't too hard to imagine. But considering how many people were upset about Anders flirting with the PC and turning him down resulted in rivalry, this is unlikely.

I liked the earlier theory on Cole the Boy/Spirit > Demon(?). That's the most sensical one I have read to date.

 

Personally, even if the devs went against all that is right and good to make Cole a romance possibility, I still wouldn't romance him because I'd be thinking of him as having the mind of a child... I really don't think they'll go that route, however.  It would be beyond creepy.  The only way it would be acceptable is if Cole mentally and socially became a lot more mature--which could maybe happen in the course of another game or two, but not in DA:I.

[Flurdt Vash]

Always remember what Justice and Anders said "A Demon is a spirit who was twisted by his station." or was it design? Regardless, Justice became Vengeance right? So... say a spirit of ... Peace maybe, what ever spirit you can come up with that would have sat there and comforted a slowly dying young mage in the dark, What would THAT spirit become, if it became over came by its design? That, to me would be what we are seeing with Cole.   or.... it could be something else completely lol That is just a theory I came up with

[GVulture]

Sometimes I feel like the only one that doesn't want Cole in Inquisition as a companion member. Not really feeling him as a potential party member. =\ Interesting and fascinating character... but I don't see him being useful as a party member without Rhys around.

[Brass_Buckles]

Sometimes I feel like the only one that doesn't want Cole in Inquisition as a companion member. Not really feeling him as a potential party member. =\ Interesting and fascinating character... but I don't see him being useful as a party member without Rhys around.

 

All you have to do to make him an awesome party member for the Inquisitor is have the Inquisitor become his friend/parental figure.  Rhys was basically his father figure.  My Inquisitor could certainly be his mother figure.  After all Shepard had to be Mom to a krogan, so why not?

 

Also Flurdt:  Quite a few of us believe that Cole is a spirit of hope being gradually corrupted into despair.  Considering he kills the despairing this has a little evidence in its favor.  However, it isn't confirmed.

[JeffZero]

Sometimes I feel like the only one that doesn't want Cole in Inquisition as a companion member. Not really feeling him as a potential party member. =\ Interesting and fascinating character... but I don't see him being useful as a party member without Rhys around.

You're not, trust me. Every time he comes up at least one person comments that they don't want it to happen. I confess I most likely notice that because of how much I *do* want it, but there it is.

[GVulture]

You're not, trust me. Every time he comes up at least one person comments that they don't want it to happen. I confess I most likely notice that because of how much I *do* want it, but there it is.

He might be interesting to have around, maybe as a DLC or as a side quest... but I just... EH about it all as him as a full blown party member. Maybe if we got Rhys and Cole was kinda... there in addition to him. Like having him serve as an invisible to all but Cole ancillary character... Like Dragon Age's version of a Tali's turret.

 

"Get him, Cole!" *Cole materializes as he stabbinates someone attacking Rhys only to fade back into invisibility*

[EkhidnaDrakaina]

He might be interesting to have around, maybe as a DLC or as a side quest... but I just... EH about it all as him as a full blown party member. Maybe if we got Rhys and Cole was kinda... there in addition to him. Like having him serve as an invisible to all but Cole ancillary character... Like Dragon Age's version of a Tali's turret.
 
"Get him, Cole!" *Cole materializes as he stabbinates someone attacking Rhys only to fade back into invisibility*

Like a stabbity Tinkerbell.

[GVulture]

Like a stabbity Tinkerbell.

Yes. I just don't see him functioning without Rhys, which we can't really get without Evangeline.

[bushes289]

Yes. I just don't see him functioning without Rhys, which we can't really get without Evangeline.

 

To me it seemed that his entire character development in Asunder was him learning to function on his own and not be a slave to his weird murdering impulses and be so dependent on Rhys, it would be a huge step backwards in his character development for him to only appear with Rhys and Evangeline. He's starting to become his own person/spirit/demon thing now and there are a lot of interesting ways that can develop.