Jim Sterling does a lot of random stuff that has nothing to do with what he's talking about.
There is a type of humour called "non-sequitur" where something is funny just because it's irrelevant and random.
I usually crack up at that stuff, but I've never seen a more lazy and half-hearted non-sequitur in my life.
Alice from the McGee games? Dem eyes are hardly "conventional".
Jade from Beyond Good and Evil certainly wasn't sexualised (though I'd hardly call her ugly).
It's rare, but not impossible.
Also, shame on you all for not mentioning Jade for the page and a bit before I came into the thread. Best female protagonist in a game, ever.
Making a game just to fit those specifications? Dumbest thing I've heard today.
Shale was pretty good looking. Very attractive.
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Depends on how she looks, Tomb Raider was always very succesful.
Of course it does, I pretty much said this in what you quoted. Only attractive women are put in lead roles.
This has to do with people wanting "realism" in their gaming experience I think. People want societal norms to be reflected. Every woman you run across doesn't look like a model, so why does every female in a lead role look like one?
Can anyone think of any other child female video game leads? My inner-paedophile would like to use it as an excuse to discuss their attractiveness.
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Of course it does, I pretty much said this in what you quoted. Only attractive women are put in lead roles.
Big breasts, athletic, long hair, conventionally attractive.
It's the only thing developers even enjoy putting on their game covers. If they even put a girl on the cover. It's pretty sad.
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Shale is a rock
Making a game just to fit those specifications? Dumbest thing I've heard today.
That was a very specific set of rules.
The list was more a set of criteria that female characters rarely follow.
There is no need to follow a single one of those rules.
There is no compulsion to follow a single one of those rules.
However a female who fails every single one of this criteria being the norm (pretty eye candy but boring and uninteresting) is a sexist trend.
The developer who produces a female character solely for eye candy is not necessarily sexist. However the trend is.
The most important of the criteria is that they are interesting and well written.
Thankfully that last criteria is where a lot of female protagonists shine.
Shale is a rock
Shale rocks my world 
.
I'm just kidding around.
What game is there that actually has an ugly protagonist that we are suppose to take seriously. His example of warrior, which I hardly consider to be a character meant to be taken seriously, as Mario is not a serious character either. They could be ugly as part of a comedic effect, as was the case of mario's continued appearance, though that style was more a byproduct of the technology at the time only allowing them to have a less detailed, more vague and cartoony style of character that stuck ever since.
More to the point I feel like Jim would want to see an unattractive female who fits his insanely high standard bar in a protagonists role that was meant to be taken seriously. Like a game with some drama and action and such as is common for a lot of story driven games. But if we look at these games, which characters could we honestly say was 100% ugly? Marcus fenix despite his massive 90's comic book muscles doesn't look ugly, at least not totally ugly. There is a savage sort of appeal to his look, one of those stupid primal type things that has women choosing big jerks over nice scrawny fellows for who they want to be with, similar to the almost instinctual thought that bigger is better. He looks like he could beat the **** out os someone with so much as breaking a sweat, and does so too, so that's primarily where the appeal comes form. Would people want a women who looked like marcus fenix on the cover and as the main character?
I don't know, but when you're willing to take that gamble and let those millions of dollars fly on the roll of a dice and on the back of an ideal, I'll be willing to sit back and see how it pans out.
It is. Not every person is conventionally attractive and if people won't buy a game if it's female protagonist isn't 'hot' that shows a lot about our society.Big breasts, athletic, long hair, conventionally attractive.
It's the only thing developers even enjoy putting on their game covers. If they even put a girl on the cover. It's pretty sad.
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What's the point of this form of realism though? Protagonists are almost always vastly above average people, who are capable of performing virtually any task. Essentially a game can't be realistic about it's lead role.
Relatability most likely. And a measure of "equality"
As far as that second sentence goes, BS. Being a protagonist and being what some call attractive don't always go hand in hand. I'd consider Kratos one ugly dude.
What game is there that actually has an ugly protagonist that we are suppose to take seriously. His example of warrior, which I hardly consider to be a character meant to be taken seriously, as Mario is not a serious character either. They could be ugly as part of a comedic effect, as was the case of mario's continued appearance, though that style was more a byproduct of the technology at the time only allowing them to have a less detailed, more vague and cartoony style of character that stuck ever since.
More to the point I feel like Jim would want to see an unattractive female who fits his insanely high standard bar in a protagonists role that was meant to be taken seriously. Like a game with some drama and action and such as is common for a lot of story driven games. But if we look at these games, which characters could we honestly say was 100% ugly? Marcus fenix despite his massive 90's comic book muscles doesn't look ugly, at least not totally ugly. There is a savage sort of appeal to his look, one of those stupid primal type things that has women choosing big jerks over nice scrawny fellows for who they want to be with, similar to the almost instinctual thought that bigger is better. He looks like he could beat the **** out os someone with so much as breaking a sweat, and does so too, so that's primarily where the appeal comes form. Would people want a women who looked like marcus fenix on the cover and as the main character?
I don't know, but when you're willing to take that gamble and let those millions of dollars fly on the roll of a dice and on the back of an ideal, I'll be willing to sit back and see how it pans out.
Okay. He went overboard with way too many criteria.
What we need is a male protagonist who is good at cooking, can dance really well, are amazing singers, brillant parents, can drive in reverse whilst simultaneously reading a book and can juggle with daggers with rose hilts. Damn. There just aren't enough male protagonists that fit my very specific standards. I wonder why?
Which is the kind of retort I go for when I want to deliberately misinterpret that video.
The list of criteria was more a list of criteria that most female characters don't meet.
It is sad that most female characters don't tick a single one of Jimquisitions boxes. Not the whole list. Just one box. The most important box. Are they an interesting character.
Relatability most likely. And a measure of "equality"
As far as that second sentence goes, BS. Being a protagonist and being what some call attractive don't always go hand in hand. I'd consider Kratos one ugly dude.
There is no objectively pretty or objectively ugly.
However there is such as thing as going out your way to make a character look good.
There is nothing wrong with this at all.
It's just that every single (with some exceptions) female character has to be attractive.
This rule doesn't apply to male characters.
The developers are not sexist.
The trend however is.
That was a very specific set of rules.
The list was more a set of criteria that female characters rarely follow.
There is no need to follow a single one of those rules.
There is no compulsion to follow a single one of those rules.
However a female who fails every single one of this criteria being the norm (pretty eye candy but boring and uninteresting) is a sexist trend.
The developer who produces a female character solely for eye candy is not necessarily sexist. However the trend is.
The most important of the criteria is that they are interesting and well written.
Thankfully that last criteria is where a lot of female protagonists shine.
I've never seen nor can recall a legitimate character who managed to meet all his criteria, male or female.
But I have seen some who have failed all of them, and let me tell you, it's not restricted to gender. In a game where the writing of characters is that bad, the male's are just as boringly, cringey, and face palmingly written as the females. It's more trying to pass off badly written characters as being something of a pandemic to female characters, when the scurge is against all characters, since the men are just as afflicted as the women.
He pointed out well writen female characters don't count because of what happens in their past involving another person getting wronged and that sending them on a path of badass revenge, or changing them into the person they are now. But what about every male character who lost something in their past and that's the primary reason they do the stuff they do? Or doing it because one of their significant others was put in danger? Or doing it because someone was their idol before and they did it?
Seems much less a female written lead problem and much more a character writing problem. Tying in backstories and personalities to looks was, in my opinion, a poor strategic move on jim's part to try and persuade others to see things from his point of view. It raises too many loop holes.
The list of criteria was more a list of criteria that most female characters don't meet.
It is sad that most female characters don't tick a single one of Jimquisitions boxes. Not the whole list. Just one box. The most important box. Are they an interesting character.
If that is the actual intent of the list, just to highlight what women don't meet, then why was he harping so strongly about his blue snake eldrict horror being the pinnacle of absolute best the video game industry had to offer with absolute seriousness and conviction? I mean, I could see admitting at the end that "Hey, all joking aside it would be nice to see female characters meet at least some of these standards". But no, he went with it, head on, and so here I am, talking about it while you try to say he didn't mean the exact words he said he meant in his video.
all points are invalid until male protagonists look like this
We're getting there man. We're getting there.
It took a lot of guts to rip off fat bob from tekken and give him even less dignity then before. But by god, capcom dared to do it.
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There is no objectively pretty or objectively ugly.
Never said it was. There is however evidence in media about what is conventional attractiveness. Kratos doesn't fit that mold of having modelesque looks.
I've never seen nor can recall a legitimate character who managed to meet all his criteria, male or female.
But I have seen some who have failed all of them, and let me tell you, it's not restricted to gender. In a game where the writing of characters is that bad, the male's are just as boringly, cringey, and face palmingly written as the females. It's more trying to pass off badly written characters as being something of a pandemic to female characters, when the scurge is against all characters, since the men are just as afflicted as the women.
He pointed out well writen female characters don't count because of what happens in their past involving another person getting wronged and that sending them on a path of badass revenge, or changing them into the person they are now. But what about every male character who lost something in their past and that's the primary reason they do the stuff they do? Or doing it because one of their significant others was put in danger? Or doing it because someone was their idol before and they did it?
Seems much less a female written lead problem and much more a character writing problem. Tying in backstories and personalities to looks was, in my opinion, a poor strategic move on jim's part to try and persuade others to see things from his point of view. It raises too many loop holes.
That is a legitimate issue you bring up.
Poor writing does affect both genders.
Poor writing tends to affect both genders differently though.
Poorly written male character:
Scared mid 30s caucasian grunting low pithed husky male.
Brooding troubled man on a quest for vengeance and redemption (because those two goals don't conflict at all).
Sounds a bit like Batman and has only one character trait (aside from all the brooding). Killing lots of enemies.
Poorly written female character:
Pretty 20 something who needs ID to enter night clubs (because she looks so young).
Free spirited whimsy clumsy and more feminine than the most feminine woman on the planet.
Heck she is so cookie in a feminine way that she is from another planet.
She is the redemption for the poorly written male character.
Oh and she gets captured a lot, giving our grumpy male protagonist a goal.
Then she gets killed so that in the sequel the grumpy male protagonist can reach hulk levels of angry (because he wasn't angry enough in the first game).
Relatability most likely. And a measure of "equality"
As far as that second sentence goes, BS. Being a protagonist and being what some call attractive don't always go hand in hand. I'd consider Kratos one ugly dude.
If that is the actual intent of the list, just to highlight what women don't meet, then why was he harping so strongly about his blue snake eldrict horror being the pinnacle of absolute best the video game industry had to offer with absolute seriousness and conviction? I mean, I could see admitting at the end that "Hey, all joking aside it would be nice to see female characters meet at least some of these standards". But no, he went with it, head on, and so here I am, talking about it while you try to say he didn't mean the exact words he said he meant in his video.
Call me a cynic, but whenever Jim Sterling is in character as Jimquisition, everything he says is as the character of Jimquisition.
So it is possible (especially given how silly his example was) that he wasn't being 100% sincere.
No one would ever get away with saying "Thank God For Me" unless they were playing a character.
That said, I am extrapolating too much.
He could have been sincere.
There is no objectively pretty or objectively ugly.
However there is such as thing as going out your way to make a character look good.
There is nothing wrong with this at all.
It's just that every single (with some exceptions) female character has to be attractive.
This rule doesn't apply to male characters.
The developers are not sexist.
The trend however is.
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