100 réponses à ce sujet

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

 

We need more "real" protagonists, regardless if they're attractive or not.

 

^

[Cainhurst Crow]

Poorly written female character:

 

Pretty 20 something who needs ID to enter night clubs (because she looks so young).

Free spirited whimsy clumsy and more feminine than the most feminine woman on the planet.

Heck she is so cookie in a feminine way that she is from another planet.

She is the redemption for the poorly written male character.

Oh and she gets captured a lot, giving our grumpy male protagonist a goal.

 

Then she gets killed so that in the sequel the grumpy male protagonist can reach hulk levels of angry (because he wasn't angry enough in the first game).

 

What kind of video games have you been exposed to this whole time? I have never seen one of these in the type of serious action game that was being discussed ever, well maybe one or two times but that characters tends to also be a complete psychopath with a collection of severed heads that she wants to add yours onto.

 

Japanese game's are notorious for that sort of thing, but their male leads tend to be just as poorly written with just as sickening a personality trope reliance as ever. They are their own brand of weird that really aught be discussed in a seperate time, perhaps with their own video as well.

 

But I have never seen western games try to have that type of bubbly jail bait female character in their games. At least non I can recall that had an ounce of non-tounge in check moments.

 

• Usually they're in their mid twenties, old enough to hold a job but young enough to look good.
• They are either the new member looking to prove themselves or the veteren who isn't afraid to speak her mind.
• Often has some unspoken event in their past that set them on this past, with it hopefully being just a dead loved one.
• They wear jeans, or eventually move on to wearing jeans if they started off wearing something else(I have no idea why there is an obsession with jeans, but there is).
• And of course they usually talk like one of the guys, and wants you to know she can hack it just like everyone else. Making them abrasive at first, but only to be protective of their friends and distrustful of new people.
• She tends to need to be saved near the end anyway though, due to something horrible happening that's out of their depth to handle. Usually they'll also be the only one of the starting group to survive so she can hook up with the lead later.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Call me a cynic, but whenever Jim Sterling is in character as Jimquisition, everything he says is as the character of Jimquisition.

So it is possible (especially given how silly his example was) that he wasn't being 100% sincere.

No one would ever get away with saying "Thank God For Me" unless they were playing a character.

That said, I am extrapolating too much.

He could have been sincere.

 

My apologies, this is only the third video of his I have ever watched. I was unaware there was any sort of character being played at all.

[Isichar]

Wheres Anita Sarkeesian to explain things when you need her

[Cainhurst Crow]

Wheres Anita Sarkeesian to explain things when you need her

 

Trying to pull off another internet scam while violating copyright law.

[Abraham_uk]

You know what game's always been good about its protagonists?

 

Grand Theft Auto.

 

None of its protagonists have ever been too attractive, too ugly, they're all, mostly, average joes from different backgrounds. The supporting characters/deuteragonists, both male and female, are the same, usually. And it works great. Why can't anyone do what they do, but with female protagonists?

Sounds pretty cool.

[Abraham_uk]

 

What kind of video games have you been exposed to this whole time? I have never seen one of these in the type of serious action game that was being discussed ever, well maybe one or two times but that characters tends to also be a complete psychopath with a collection of severed heads that she wants to add yours onto.

 

Japanese game's are notorious for that sort of thing, but their male leads tend to be just as poorly written with just as sickening a personality trope reliance as ever. They are their own brand of weird that really aught be discussed in a seperate time, perhaps with their own video as well.

 

But I have never seen western games try to have that type of bubbly jail bait female character in their games. At least non I can recall that had an ounce of non-tounge in check moments.

 

• Usually they're in their mid twenties, old enough to hold a job but young enough to look good.
• They are either the new member looking to prove themselves or the veteren who isn't afraid to speak her mind.
• Often has some unspoken event in their past that set them on this past, with it hopefully being just a dead loved one.
• They wear jeans, or eventually move on to wearing jeans if they started off wearing something else(I have no idea why there is an obsession with jeans, but there is).
• And of course they usually talk like one of the guys, and wants you to know she can hack it just like everyone else. Making them abrasive at first, but only to be protective of their friends and distrustful of new people.
• She tends to need to be saved near the end anyway though, due to something horrible happening that's out of their depth to handle. Usually they'll also be the only one of the starting group to survive so she can hook up with the lead later.

 

 

 

I know I've seen this character (that you described) quite a bit, however I find this one quite appealing.

She sounds like she has quite a bit of depth to her.

Has potential.

 

 

 

To answer your question. The protagonists I was referring to was Vanille. Actually she is a teenager and does not get captured. However she is urrraaahh! Only Hope could manage to be more annoying than her.

[Cainhurst Crow]

No arguing about that, I tend to enjoy that character as well, but she's pretty much become stock at this point, same for the brooding marine on a mission character. They have, in essence, become so common place as to form a stereotype all on their own.

 

Not all stereotypes are bad, just as not all tropes are bad, both require the right application and polish to shine, but can fall short and become bad. It's just that it if a fact that there are a lot of them out there of varying quality.

[Sir DeLoria]

Why can most people identify with an attractive protagonist over an unnattractive one? Talking strictly appearances, what is there to identify with for the average joe looking guy.

You said protagonist can't be realistic by nature of being protagonists, above average. You were obviously disputing my comment about having more realism represented in video games.

"Essentially a game can't be realistic about it's lead role."

Yeah you definitely were.

From my experience people can identify more with someone who is more attractive than them, as opposed to a character who is less attractive than them. Though this is all subjective of course.

Yes, of course I was disputing your comment regarding more realism, but I never said anything about appearance. All I ever said was, that a protagonist can't be an average joe, because they're far more capable. Capability has nothing to do with appearance.

[Abraham_uk]

No arguing about that, I tend to enjoy that character as well, but she's pretty much become stock at this point, same for the brooding marine on a mission character. They have, in essence, become so common place as to form a stereotype all on their own.

 

Not all stereotypes are bad, just as not all tropes are bad, both require the right application and polish to shine, but can fall short and become bad. It's just that it if a fact that there are a lot of them out there of varying quality.

 

Manic dream pixie girl oddly enough (which was the very character type I was just complaining about) can be a wonderful and endearing character. This is provided that they are written well. I love manic dream pixie girls and manic dream pixie boys quite a lot. Nothing more cheerful than an over the top cheerie character. Just give them some other characteristics and an in depth character to go with it, otherwise you're left with a migraine.

 

I really like Matt Smith. A manic dream pixie boy. Well written and in depth.

I'm thinking of watching 500 Days of Summer because apparently that is a good example of a well written manic dream pixie girl.

[Sir DeLoria]

That's what this thread is about. Appearances. So what are you talking about then?

Your comment about wanting more realism. What's the point of an average looking protagonist, if they're gonna be an all capable mary sue anyway?

[Sir DeLoria]

You serious? I'm done.

Oh well, most of my posts were at least half way tongue-in-cheek

[Abraham_uk]

So, lemme get this straight.

 

Not having ugly female characters is sexist?

The trend where that males don't have to be attractive but females do is sexist.

 

The developers however are not necessarily sexist.

[Abraham_uk]

Well at 4 pages of civil discussion, hopefully it won't fall into toxic territory.

[spirosz]

Attraction in protagonist is a strange topic to be honest.  If the game has the option to customize the protagonist, it's usually a self reflection of how we would like to look as a hero (or villain, if that is possible), limited by the specific game limitations for that game.  

[Derpy]

Lol.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

They can't be heroes and protagonists unless they're attractive. #david

 

In all seriousness, games that allow character creation make the point moot, but there are games out there with non-sexualised female protagonists that are critically acclaimed. Alice (American McGee's Alice, Alice: Madness Returns) and Jade (Beyond: Good and Evil), there is also April Ryan (The Longest Journey, Dreamfall: The Longest Journey and upcoming Dreamfall Chapters: The Longest Journey). 

 

Like I said, it's rare but possible and has been done before. Something that people in this thread seem to ignore for some reason. Jim too perhaps, since it's his video that is the base of the discussion. But I haven't seen the video.

 

There is also a correlation between the type of game and well written female protagonists. One thing that may be slanting the scales a bit is that the AAA games market is saturated with Action games that rely heavily on graphic fidelity, and adrenaline pumping, fast paced gameplay. Whereas a slower paced game, or one that involves other gameplay outside of combat and focuses on a tightly written story, is more likely to feature female protagonists. For example, while the games I mentioned also have Action elements, they are better seen as Adventure games. 

 

There's also Samus for Nintendo fans. 

 

I think attractiveness as a measure a little and unfair, considering that a.) beauty is in the eye of the beholder and b.) most games that feature conventionally unattractive protagonists are stylised/alien/etc. I remember reading about how TNO's ugly mug on the game cover of Planescape: Torment actually contributed to it's poor sales on release. Then again, you have people like Trevor in GTA V. 

 

Of course the ideal is something like Arcanum, where you can can create a character and have them be beautiful or ugly with actual consequences within the game.