163 réponses à ce sujet

[Dio Demon]

I know this is a crazy idea, but let's wait until the game is actually out before we nitpick the unfinished graphics.

Pfft that's crazy talk. Why would we judge a finished game? /sarcasm

[hangmans tree]

Fine, I'll wait.

I see constructive criticism is void here. I can take all the sarcasm, ridicule and whatnot.

When you say BW games are about story and companions you are beating on a dead horse. Its IRREVELANT.

And no, its not about colours. Games can be colourful with all the shades of the rainbow and still feel dark and threatening. Yes, and gritty.

 

When did the plants became my thing? One or two examples? Nice way for nitpicking, childish really.

 

Did I say I expect stellar form the game? Or did BW assured the fanbase it will be stellar? So, you agree to be misinformed and give the credit for visuals not to be of high level because of...comp-onions! Sheesh. And Storry (story+sorry, I guess)!

 

I repeat, there might be the day when you fire up DAI, enter the realm of suspended disbelief and find yourselves in Legoland with all the blocky, rectangular architecture. And belive me - the feeling will be intensified when you see it in 3D not as screens or poor gamepIay material. I would like to see your faces then, because "story!". But I hope it won't happen.

 

Did you consider that in your defence you are denying the game proffesionalism and by extension make BW employees look incompetent? As if you knew better what a dev should and shouldn't be or know or be able to do.

[TheLittleBird]

You know, to be honest, I think the game looks gorgeous and you are expecting way too much.

[Dio Demon]

Fine, I'll wait.

I see constructive criticism is void here. I can take all the sarcasm, ridicule and whatnot.

When you say BW games are about story and companions you are beating on a dead horse. Its IRREVELANT.

And no, its not about colours. Games can be colourful with all the shades of the rainbow and still feel dark and threatening. Yes, and gritty.

 

When did the plants became my thing? One or two examples? Nice way for nitpicking, childish really.

 

Did I say I expect stellar form the game? Or did BW assured the fanbase it will be stellar? So, you agree to be misinformed and give the credit for visuals not to be of high level because of...comp-onions! Sheesh. And Storry (story+sorry, I guess)!

 

I repeat, there might be the day when you fire up DAI, enter the realm of suspended disbelief and find yourselves in Legoland with all the blocky, rectangular architecture. And belive me - the feeling will be intensified when you see it in 3D not as screens or poor gamepIay material. I would like to see your faces then, because "story!". But I hope it won't happen.

 

Did you consider that in your defence you are denying the game proffesionalism and by extension make BW employees look incompetent? As if you knew better what a dev should and shouldn't be or know or be able to do.

That's coming from you not a good thing kinda calling the pot black here.

 

But when I do start up Dragon Age Inquisition, I will spend some time in the character creator and enter the world of Minecraft as you seem to be implying and I WILL ENJOY IT I WILL GET MY MAGIC GLOWY HAND FOR IMPORTANT STUFF I SHALL BE FENRIS! I mean THE INQUISITOR!

 

Why because I'm going to have fun with it!

[Divine Justinia V]

Wait... are you for real..?

[hangmans tree]

I can agree that some parts look gorgeous and some among others need improvement for the game visuals to look coherent. InMyOpinion of course.

[TheLittleBird]

You know, hangmans tree, if you want it to look realistic... just go outside, enjoy the realism of every-day life and excuse me while I go slay dragons and close holes in the sky.

[Divine Justinia V]

I can agree that some parts look gorgeous and some among others need improvement for the game visuals to look coherent. InMyOpinion of course.

 

What do you think needs to look more coherent, exactly?

[hangmans tree]

@TheLittleBird

Missed the WHOLE point of the discussion and my gripe with the visuals :/

@Divine Justinia V

I think I made myself clear in the last pages... major parts of visuals look cartooney, flat, with contrast to realistic textures and details used ingame. Quick example - on screens from show gameplay dragon's tail does not bend like an "S" form. It bends as a polygon where you can see sharp edges of each point (angles).

[Divine Justinia V]

@Divine Justinia V

I think I made myself clear in the last pages... major parts of visuals look cartooney, flat, with contrast to realistic textures and details used ingame. Quick example - on screens from show gameplay dragon's tail does not bend like an "S" form. It bends as a polygon where you can see sharp edges of each point (angles).

 

Fair enough, I just didn't feel like reading it all.

 

In regards to the dragon shot, as I said last month, those shots were still pre-alpha - what is it you expect from that?

 

Actually, all of the shots you posted on the first page are/were still pre-alpha. Don't you think it's a little too quick to judge that?

[LaiLoranys]

I don't know if anyone has already pointed this before - if so I'm sorry I just kinda skimmed through the thread - but I think that a valid point you should also consider is the artistic side of this. Maybe the way things look right now (cardboard-y as you pointed out) is more about a stylistic choice than an attempt at realism. 

 

It is their choice in the end. They could go for a more realistic, gritty, perfectly positioned plants and whatnot OR they could decide to not do that. Intentionally. A lot of criticism regarding graphics of DAO was the brownish look, and as far as I have seen that kind of criticism still exist for most modern 'realistic' games, so you know..it could be they wanted to avoid that and create a more vibrant, unique artistic look and feel... to also set the game apart in some way. 

 

To be honest I like the way things look right now. Yes it's a bit unrealistic, it's a bit plastic, etc..but it all seems intentional to me. It is a game after all. Lots of discussions regarding graphics this day and age also focus around this choice: should we go for a more realistic look - and how would that impact game play, especially regarding the amount of violence in games  and graphic content that comes with that- or should we try and keep it all a bit artistic, a bit removed from the complete realism and avoid that... or for any other reason, really. In the end it this is their artistic vision it is their right to present it as such. 

[hangmans tree]

Fair enough, I just didn't feel like reading it all.

 

In regards to the dragon shot, as I said last month, those shots were still pre-alpha - what is it you expect from that?

 

Actually, all of the shots you posted on the first page are/were still pre-alpha. Don't you think it's a little too quick to judge that?

I see the same problem with the new screens... another quick example - look at the missing stones in the "ruins". They all look the same, sharp as never before. Someone constructed those ruins 5 minutes ago it seems. The murble interior (she-mage screen) looks like fibreboard.

 

I'm not here to convince anyone or to start a crusade. My intension was to point ot some rough edges of the production. The same happened with DA2, I had my worries, I expected what followed. But EVERYBODY was like "dude, its only some introduction with brown badlands" the game is gonna be fantaspastic!". look how it turned out.

Just please dont start about DA2, I have an opinion that won't change, the game is flawed beyond graphics, it's also gameplay and storywise that suffered... shortcomings.

[Wulfram]

Now that you point it out, I agree that some of the walls and things could perhaps do with being roughened up a bit.

[TheLittleBird]

@TheLittleBird

Missed the WHOLE point of the discussion and my gripe with the visuals :/

 

That's what you said, right? You said you wanted stuff to look more realistic.

 

But if I missed your point, I apologize, though I'd like to know what your point actually is, then.

[hangmans tree]

That's what you said, right? You said you wanted stuff to look more realistic.

 

But if I missed your point, I apologize, though I'd like to know what your point actually is, then.

 

BTW

Spoiler

 

When I said cardboard I ment no irregular curves of the outlines of the characters and items. Look at the dragons tail and the perfect blocks in the 1st screen. A perfect example. Its like 3d (textures look and detail) encapsuled in 2d (models look one dimensional).

...

Every time I focus on how details compose in the whole image I see sterile, empty, flat, square... some of the faults I see. They are not game breaking or anything

...

flat surfaces and cardboard interiors. Looks like builder played tetris with exact fitting stones.

...

All those geometrical edges scream PLOYGON SHAPES/DESIGN.

...

Textures and lighting is beautiful, right, but if you close it a flat 2D object it looses its power. Its like painting in a constricting frame, if you have a crocodile shape you wont paint a flying unicorn!

...

The ruins look artificial, the missing PERFECTLY rectangular blocks are hard not to notice.

Those were my main concerns over the graphics.

I did not say anything for the game less realistic than I want it to be. That was not the point. Certain aspects of the assets do not match across presented material - e.g.- textures are great, but the models are blocky, not enough polygons it seems and in some cases complete lack of bump mapping. That is  not a design/artistic choice, that is a flaw imo.

[TKavatar]

I did not say anything for the game less realistic than I want it to be. That was not the point. Certain aspects of the assets do not match across presented material - e.g.- textures are great, but the models are blocky, not enough polygons it seems and in some cases complete lack of bump mapping. That is  not a design/artistic choice, that is a flaw imo.

This. Everything else looks great but models are not up to the standard I would expect. DAI's visuals are inconsistent, and IMO that's immersion breaking.

[TheLittleBird]

 

I did not say anything for the game less realistic than I want it to be. That was not the point. Certain aspects of the assets do not match across presented material - e.g.- textures are great, but the models are blocky, not enough polygons it seems and in some cases complete lack of bump mapping. That is  not a design/artistic choice, that is a flaw imo.

 

Thank you for explaining it to me.

 

----------

 

Now, let me regale you with a story, if you don't mind.

 

There was a time when Fen'Harel was not the hunter, but being hunted. He had been chased through the woods for months, by warriors from afar, and had now found his way onto the side of a mountain. As he rested in a clearing near the top, he saw a young man come towards him, sword in his hand. Fen'Harel laughed and set upon the man, only to see him flee into a nearby tree, as high up as he could. Fen'Harel himself was tired from being on the run for long, and couldn't find the strength to climb said tree and kill the young man.

 

So he didn't. Instead, he spoke to the man, who looked at him with surprise in his eyes. 

"I will give you a riddle," Fen'Harel said, and sat down in the grass. "If you solve it, I will let you go. If not, I will sit and wait here until you die."

The young man nodded, and Fen'Harel gave him the riddle. "I am the product of labour, of earth and fire. All life ends with me, even where Death does not dare go. What am I?"

 

As the boy thought long and hard on the answer, his attention drifted from Fen'Harel. The latter lay down upon the ground, closing his eyes, and waited.

Finally, the young man seemed to know. He opened his mouth, but saw Fen'Harel seemed to be sleeping. Dozed off after the long and boring wait, he most certainly thought. So he did what all hunters would do: he climbed down.

Right at that moment, Fen'Harel rushed forward, and slammed himself into the base of the tree. Over its entire length it shook, and the young man desperately tried to keep his balance, though to no avail. His hand slipped from the branches and he fell down. The ground broke his spine, and his own sword ended his life when it fell down onto his face. 

 

As Fen'Harel walked off, he whispered: "I am the sword."

 

----------

TL;DR -

 

My point being: you shouldn't judge so soon, for it might work out to be just fine. They're pre-alpha screenshots, you know.

[In Exile]

Now that you point it out, I agree that some of the walls and things could perhaps do with being roughened up a bit.

It may be that this is how the developers are planning to cheat when running the game on consoles. We are seeing the console version of the game, not the PC, after all. 

[TKavatar]

TL;DR -
 
My point being: you shouldn't judge so soon, for it might work out to be just fine. They're pre-alpha screenshots, you know.

People were saying the same things about DA2 when it was about to be released. "Oh, those screenshots are totally pre alpha! That demo is pre alpha for sure! There's no way DA2 would have ninja hack and slash combat with enemies exploding into bloody chunks when stabbed in the final release, Bioware wouldn't do a thing like that, right?"

And why would meshes be 'pre alpha' of all things when the other stuff looks great so far? It doesn't make any sense.

[TheLittleBird]

People were saying the same things about DA2 when it was about to be released. "Oh, those screenshots are totally pre alpha! That demo is pre alpha for sure! There's no way DA2 would have ninja hack and slash combat with enemies exploding into bloody chunks when stabbed in the final release, Bioware wouldn't do a thing like that, right?"

And why would meshes be 'pre alpha' of all things when the other stuff looks great so far? It doesn't make any sense.

 

hangmans tree was talking about polygon counts and bump mapping. Now I don't know anything about that, to be honest, but that doesn't sound like it's comparable to combat animations.

 

And top of that, BioWare stated that the screenshots were pre-alpha.

[TKavatar]

hangmans tree was talking about polygon counts and bump mapping. Now I don't know anything about that, to be honest, but that doesn't sound like it's comparable to combat animations.
 
And top of that, BioWare stated that the screenshots were pre-alpha.

When you build a mesh, you initially create a high poly version to bake normal maps and a lower poly version to be used in game, and lower the poly count for each platform further if needed. Same goes for textures, the artist creates a super high res texture, and scales it down appropriately for final release. You don't scale things back up.

Considering these are screenshots and videos taken from the PC build, the fact that we have such low poly meshes for the lead platform is worrying.

[aphelion4]

Only "bad" thing I noticed is that the lighting looks incorrect in certain screens/videos (location, too much, too little, etc). I can't say I noticed the "cut out" look you are describing though, but if it looks blocky (I'll have to take another look) then it's probably to cater to consoles/lower end PCs. The more polygons the smoother the mesh.

[TheLittleBird]

When you build a mesh, you initially create a high poly version to bake normal maps and a lower poly version to be used in game, and lower the poly count for each platform further if needed. Same goes for textures, the artist creates a super high res texture, and scales it down appropriately for final release. You don't scale things back up.

Considering these are screenshots and videos taken from the PC build, the fact that we have such low poly meshes for the lead platform is worrying.

 

But let's say the poly count where higher than you guys perceive it to be in said screenshots... that would make the game harder to run, right? I mean, with so much going on in the game as it is, it doesn't surprise that the poly meshes don't look top-notch.

[TKavatar]

But let's say the poly count where higher than you guys perceive it to be in said screenshots... that would make the game harder to run, right? I mean, with so much going on in the game as it is, it doesn't surprise that the poly meshes don't look top-notch.

It is possible, but I don't think so. There might be a drop in performance with tons of NPCs running about on weaker PCs, but not so much as to make the game unplayable.

[Deflagratio]

Ya'll saying "It's just Pre-Alpha" Are setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

To be honest, I think DA:I looks great, better than I was expecting. But when I heard DA was moving to Frostbite, an engine most known for high-capacity multiplayer battles (Battlefield), I had already assumed character models would be relatively low-poly. That's just the way the engine works, and it makes up in the total level asset capacity, along with the size of an individual zone.

 

Expect DA:I to even drop a few more notches in visual fidelity before release, if it still is in Pre-Alpha, the majority of optimization scaling hasn't happened yet.