30 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadooow]

 

Interesting.  I have a hard time getting invested in a PW that DOESN'T do a decent chunk of changes because the default rules are so broken in so many ways.

I agree with Elhanan, the ultimately broken stuff are very few, the exact list would be a different for me but no point to argue whether is permahaste module breaker or not - it often depends on a module environment/design. Other stuff is just slighly inbalanced but since a roles are established in DnD it can be lived with.

 

And I can see the point of the Dante2377, sometimes lots of changes, especially crazy ones that doesnt follow the usual DnD mechanic are actually causing peoples to go away. A few changes, especially those that makes something that players know its useless (PDK for example) are good but completely changing every spell is not much so. The Higher Ground is an example of changes like this. Try to visit it, if you havent already. The changes there are extremely complex and with their legendary levelling system its get nearly impossible to build a character in advance. Maybe if you spent a month there but not for a new player. (Note Im not saying this PW is bad or something, in the Action category there probably isnt any better than that now. Opinions differ anyway.)

 

Going somewhere middle is probably the best way, establish a changes that aren't changing the spell/class nature or change only generally accepted broken stuff like already mentioned Heal/Harm. We can continue in this discussion in the thread about ideas for balance changes.

[MagicalMaster]

Elhanan, I havent played Skyrim yet. Can you elaborate what modifications are available there, for who (player/builder?) and why people uses them in a first place?

 

Not extensively familiar, but I know a lot of them (possibly all of them) are graphics mods -- do things like turn dragons into Thomas the Tank Engine.  Or make mostly naked women appear.  Or turn dragons into human wrestlers.  Etc.

 

Other stuff is just slighly inbalanced but since a roles are established in DnD it can be lived with.

 

Talking stuff like Paladin/Blackguard + Sorc, Monk + Druid/Shifter, Skill Dump, PM AC, WM/AA crazy AB, etc.  You also get stuff like a 20+ AB or AC gap on a d20 system.

 

The Higher Ground is an example of changes like this. Try to visit it, if you havent already.

 

I played there for a few months, got tired of groups of people running around like chickens with their heads cut off and nearly everything being determined by whether you had the right spell/item to be immune to some effect.  In general, though, I agree that you don't need to go that extensive on changes -- though I didn't mind per se.

 

We can continue in this discussion in the thread about ideas for balance changes.

 

Sure, post there if you want and I'll respond.

[Elhanan]

The Skyrim Nexus has 50+ categories of mods. The ones that that I ref earlier in another thread are Overhauls; those that alter a wide range of items, effects, Skills, etc. Among these mods, as well as some other types, allows the Player to select which sub-modules are chosen for installation.

 

In one of the more popular Overhaul mods, while one has to select the main file which alters Skills, but the Races, Bonus Effects, etc  are optional. While I do not use it myself, it is widely downloaded, and the options seem to be a major reason for this.

 

As for myself, I played 700+ hrs of the Vanilla game with only a single mod to improve facial appearances. Since then, one of the writers at the Nexus named Gopher has made several tutorials, as well as Let's Play vids to generate interest in mods. You can look over his lists at gophersvids.com. Now I have ca. 75 plug-ins that improve weather, water, and lighting, alter spells, add weather effects such as freezing and exposure, etc.

 

And there are filters available for Searches to eliminate unwanted types of mods, so no naked Housecarls for me....

[WebShaman]

I have done such modifications to just about every game I have played that allows modifications,Shadooow.

 

From BG, BG:SoA, BG:ToB, Dragon's Age (and DA2), BG:EE (and BGII:EE), IWD and IWD2, NWN, NWN2, etc.

 

From overrides, to additions, to outright rule changes, you name it.

 

With the Infinity Engine and the Weidu concept, adding changes are really easy.  NWN delivers a number of different ways to change things, as does DA (and DA2).

 

And I do understand the concept of CC Maker vs Player - I made PWs, and then played on them.  It is a strange feeling to "know" just about everything about what one is playing...but sometimes one needs a break from just making, designing, and DMing (as well as enforcing rules on a PW).

[Dante2377]

 

Interesting.  I have a hard time getting invested in a PW that DOESN'T do a decent chunk of changes because the default rules are so broken in so many ways.

 

I didn't necessarily mean changes like scaling spell damage so casters progress as well, or editing classes like PDK or Harper scout to make them playable, or changing barbarian rage on a high-magic server to use AB/HP bonuses instead of useless stat bonuses bc you're already at the +12 cap,  but when EVERY aspect of the game that could be customized is (e.g. 90% of the spells customized and not just scaling damage past 15 or 20 damage dice, only custom dieties with limited clerical domains, lots of feats modified, post-40 systems that are difficult to calculate, etc) that takes a lot of mental energy to keep straight, much less invest in the first place.

 

I'll give 2 examples, one from nwn and one from BG2.

 

For NWN, at The Awakening server, the post 40 system (up to 60) is handled fairly straight-forwardly - you get the same every other level progression of AB and saves and a general feat every 3 levels (no more bonus feats).  Some spells are modified, but not a lot that I can't keep track or a quick check helps remind me.  I know that a build that is 5 AB less at level 40 than another build will be 5 AB less (baring odd stat choices later) at lvl 60.  Contrast that with Aventia3's post 40 system.  The post 40 AB and damage scales based a multiplexed modifier from 0.25 to 1.0, based on your level mix at level 40.  All of a sudden, builds that were powerhouses at level 40 like Blood and Faith (str based cleric 26 bard 4 RDD10) are weak at level 250 because clerics have a 0.5 modifier instead of 0.75-1.0 that true melee classes get.  When you get to level 200, that makes a difference.  It's also very hard to figure out how effective your character is going to be at level 100, 200, 400, etc, without getting into complicated formulas.  Now I've played on Av3 and liked it, but now that I have 2 kids and am adopting a 3rd, I need my PWs to have tweaks and slight modifications to NWN, not a complete redo.

 

For BG2, like I mentioned in my other post, a mod like Ascension made the game harder by giving the bad guys 1. spell books that made sense 2. scripts that use them properly, and 3. most NPCs behaved like what they were, not just monsters with random powers.  Contrasted with that the Tactics mod just made insanely powerful enemies, often lumped in groups, that had to be done in a specific order (e.g. get immunity item X to kill monster Y who dropped item A that let you then kill his buddy monster Z) to progress.  OR Improved Anvil, which was a good mod, but it basically introduced new classes and items and turned the plot all around to the point where it didn't really resemble BG2 anymore.  

[MagicalMaster]

Gotcha, Dante, that makes sense.