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[fhs33721]

 

Question: of all the desire demons in DAO and DA2, how many of them have actually tried to seduce you?

 

 None. Only the one in Redcliffe might count. But you actually have to bring it up on your own at first. They try to bargain with you and trick you, but they do not try to seduce you in a sexual way like ever. People are just making that up.

 

Also I'd like to mention that noticebaly when the one in Night terrors tries to seduce Aveline it actually turns into a man (Namely her dead husband). Also Herren might be Desire demon.

[thats1evildude]

When I said "seduce," I meant in the physical sense, MissWoox.

 

And no, not every desire demon tries to tempt you into a deal. Most just try to kill you.

[XMissWooX]

When I said "seduce," I meant in the physical sense, MissWoox.
 
And no, not every desire demon tries to tempt you into a deal. Most just try to kill you.

Well in that case, it really shouldn't matter what sex the Desire Demons appear to be, so there may as we'll be male Desire Demons, resources allowing.

[fhs33721]

Well in that case, it really shouldn't matter what sex the Desire Demons appear to be, so there may as we'll be male Desire Demons, resources allowing.

Yes if the resources allow it I'm not opposed to an additional male desire demon model. More variety in enemies usually doesn't hurt.

[thats1evildude]

Well in that case, it really shouldn't matter what sex the Desire Demons appear to be, so there may as we'll be male Desire Demons, resources allowing.

 

 

Resources allowing, I don't have any issue with desire demons ocassionally appearing as male, though I'll note demons are already a pretty male-centric lot and it means less work for the female VAs.

 

What I have an issue with the assumption is that desire demons appear female "because Bioware assumes we are all straight male gamers and want to tap that." It's basically an excuse to act offended.

[Hellion Rex]

Resources allowing, I don't have any issue with desire demons ocassionally appearing as male, though I'll note it means less work for the female VAs. What I have an issue with the assumption is that desire demons appear female "because Bioware assumes we are all straight male gamers and want to tap that."

Not that I disagree with you, but that still begs the question: why make them all look female instead of simply making them very androgynous or formless to begin with?

[happy_daiz]

I doubt BW would change the Desire Demon's form now, after two games of representing them in a very specific (female) way.

 

What would be the point, aside from fan service?

[thats1evildude]

Not that I disagree with you, but that still begs the question: why make them all look female instead of simply making them very androgynous or formless to begin with?

 

Because we already have plenty of androgynous and formless demons and the female form is more commonly associated with lust than the male one. For further reference, see every single representation of the Seven Deadly Sins in fiction.

 

Obligatory Full Metal Alchemist example:

 

Spoiler

 

Likewise, if you ever see a character representing "Gluttony" in fiction, chances are it's an extremely fat dude as opposed to an extremely fat woman.

[Hellion Rex]

Because a) we already have plenty of androgynous and formless demons and the female form is more commonly associated with lust than the male one. For reference, see every single representation of the Seven Deadly Sins in fiction.

 

Obligatory FMA example:

 

Spoiler

Haha, I already know what that is, and I don't even need to open the picture.

[XMissWooX]

Resources allowing, I don't have any issue with desire demons ocassionally appearing as male, though I'll note demons are already a pretty male-centric lot and it means less work for the female VAs.
 
What I have an issue with the assumption is that desire demons appear female "because Bioware assumes we are all straight male gamers and want to tap that." It's basically an excuse to act offended.

Resources are scarce to come by, but I think that more variety would always be good. Technically, the only thing that defines the other demons as male are their voices. The physical appearance of the Shade, the Rage Demon, the Pride Demon, etc. are pretty ambiguous.

But to quote from original post:
"it gives me the impression"
"Which felt odd to me"
"Me (the player)"
These are all *my personal* feelings about the portrayal of Desire Demons. If I played the game and came across a Desire Demon and immediately thought 'this game was expecting me to be attracted to females' that is a legitimate perception.
I'm not pretending to be offended, or angry at Bioware for this, but as I said, it seemed rather unexpected considering I've never felt that way about any other aspect of the games.

[JEMEDAOME2]

I always thought that Desire demons were succubi and they generally tend to be female I guess a desire demon could appear male if it wanted to but since most of the societies in Thadas are patriarchal(not sure if spelling is right ) my guess  the reason the default form is female is because most of the  power is in  still men's hands I could be wrong, Bioware are very good at surprising us after all

[thats1evildude]

Well, the OP is a massive troll handpicking topics from the big book of "What's pissed off the Bioware forum in the past?" I sincerely doubt Maiden Crowe gives a s**t one way or the other.

 

I was strongly tempted to leave this thread alone for that reason, but I decided to add my two cents before this thread reaches Page 50.

[fhs33721]

I always thought that Desire demons were succubi and they generally tend to be female I guess a desire demon could appear male if it wanted to but since most of the societies in Thadas are patriarchal(not sure if spelling is right ) my guess  the reason the default form is female is because most of the  power is in  still men's hands I could be wrong, Bioware are very good at surprising us after all

A male Desire demon is called Incubus in myths and folklore, but I think less people know about them than their female counterpart.

[legbamel]

I'm not offended by desire demons as they currently appear, I just would find them much more compelling if they appeared in a form designed to make the PC think lusty thoughts. As the only overtly sexualized of the demons it makes sense for them to react to plaher choices and appear as male or female depending what would attract the PC (which would, of course, mean they'd need to create both forms).

I don't know why the other demons all have male-sounding voices as none of them display other sex characteristics. Maybe because all the really cool dragons are female?

[pallascedar]

Because we already have plenty of androgynous and formless demons and the female form is more commonly associated with lust than the male one. For further reference, see every single representation of the Seven Deadly Sins in fiction.

Obligatory Full Metal Alchemist example:

Spoiler

Likewise, if you ever see a character representing "Gluttony" in fiction, chances are it's an extremely fat dude as opposed to an extremely fat woman.

Lust may be commonly associated with the female form, but this is largely a product of a pretty sexist society, not reality.

Desire demons will likely to continue to have female forms not because it makes sense, but because resources are limited. It's worth pointing out that no other demon has any real sex. Yes, they have deep male voices, but even the desire demon's voice is layered over a deep male voice.

They aren't female, they always look female because the game is largely marketed at straight men, and it would be unnecessarily expensive to design two models.

[thats1evildude]

Yes, they have deep male voices, but even the desire demon's voice is layered over a deep male voice.

 

Yes, for a deliberate Voice of the Legion effect.

[Chiramu]

I'd just rather the Desire Demon represented "desire" instead of lust. Desire is more than just sexual desire and should represent every want and desire, that is not only sexual lust! 

[pallascedar]

Yes, for a deliberate Voice of the Legion effect.

Yes, but it illustrates that despite their form, they ate neither totally female or male.

[thats1evildude]

I'd just rather the Desire Demon represented "desire" instead of lust. Desire is more than just sexual desire and should represent every want and desire, that is not only sexual lust! 

 

 

To be clear, "lust" is defined as the desire for anything immaterial.

 

The challenge here is, how do you symbolically represent a lust for power? Make the demon look like ... a giant pile of coins? A talking contract? A kingly figure? How do you also make that demon visually distinct from its brethren and its mortal followers so that you can spot the desire demon in the middle of a fight?

[thats1evildude]

Yes, but it illustrates that despite their form, they are neither totally female or male.

 

Absolutely true. Hence, asking for "male" desire demons when desire demons are neither male nor female is paradoxical.

[happy_daiz]

I'd just rather the Desire Demon represented "desire" instead of lust. Desire is more than just sexual desire and should represent every want and desire, that is not only sexual lust! 

 

I think they do, or are at least meant to represent wants/desires. Here, some seem to be talking about physical lust, but in-game, it's desire in a non-physical bits sense:

 

Connor: desire to save his poisoned father

Lady Harriman/Allure: desire for power/control over Starkhaven

Amalia/Kitty - Amalia's desire for a playmate, Kitty's desire to be freed.

etc.

 

If there was any change to the existing desire demons, I'd want there to actually be some type of deal offered, instead of them more or less being random enemy #1306. And if they succeed in charming you, there's some kind of consequence. I dunno. To me, that seems a lot more interesting than yet another male-looking demon. Yawn.

[Killdren88]

Desire isn't just about sex as some people have stated. Sex is just one desire.

 

And if we can recall the Templar in the Mage tower, we see the desire demon had weaved an illusion of a happy life with a wife and child. So technically she shows what the victim would want even if we don't see it for ourselves.

[Face of Evil]

I'm not offended by desire demons as they currently appear, I just would find them much more compelling if they appeared in a form designed to make the PC think lusty thoughts.

 

I would also like the game to cater my every whim and desire, as that would result in a lot more elven girls in bikinis playing beach volleyball.

[XMissWooX]

Just posting a link to the thread I mentioned earlier on this topic:
http://forum.bioware...ubi-and-incubi/

And below, a couple of posts from the Devs on the topic:

We could certainly do it (personally I always wanted the Desire Demon to be androgynous, but that ship has long since sailed). Whether we would depends on whether we have a need for it somewhere-- if we're going to do a whole new model, I personally would rather have it be a new creature as opposed to an alternate version of a creature which already exists, but if there were a story-related reason as to why we needed it then by all means it could happen.

  

There's collaboration, but final say with regards to how anything looks in the game rests with the Art department. So we'll offer input to the artists, and they'll take it into account, but when it comes to things which are purely aesthetic it's up to them to determine which direction best complies with the overall look they're going for.

I also think we should avoid the pitfall of assuming that anyone who dislikes female-looking Desire Demons is an uptight Feminist threatening to steal away men's naked ladies, or that anyone who likes female-looking Desire Demons is a hormonal teenage boy with eyes the size of saucers.
There are plenty of valid reasons why a person may feel the way they do about such a topic.

[pallascedar]

To me, that seems a lot more interesting than yet another male-looking demon. Yawn.

I don't think DA has anymale looking demons. Just desire demons and amorphous things.