I think it's pretty easily worth it to play the ending without the EC, since that way you can avoid the Normandy pick-up scene and all of it's attending headaches.
The problem with that is I would get T'soni in the flashback(don't want that) instead of Samantha.
I think it's pretty easily worth it to play the ending without the EC, since that way you can avoid the Normandy pick-up scene and all of it's attending headaches.
I dunno, I played it without the EC. I'll take the headaches.
there are a number of people I rather have as a squadmate than Liara.
My Pick:
Kai Leng
T.I.M.
Miranda
Jacob
Jack
Grunt
Wrex
anyone from BSN
A Cerberus Phantom
A Cerberus Personal that fits into one of the Cerberus types we face ingame
Anderson
A Vorcha
N7 character from Earth DLC
Wreav
Harbringer
a really long list
Sidenote: I do love EDI; She needs to say on Ship. For she is my girl.
there are a number of people I rather have as a squadmate than Liara.
<snips long list that includes story villains>
The hate is strong in this one.
Liara hate has gotten to be cliche.
The beam run.... Ah yes, the beam run. Why is your entire team on the ship? So maybe one squadmate got wounded. Why would Shepard be alone on the beam run? Wouldn't two other people who might actually stand a chance of understanding how to operate the Crucible be on the run? I'm looking at Javik and Dr. Tsoni. Even if they weren't on the first part, shouldn't they get off the ship and join Shepard for the second part? And perhaps others to help out once on the Citadel? I know Bob from Accounting will say "that's a terrible idea," because it's logical. And we can't have anything logical happening in Mass Effect.
The beam run.... Ah yes, the beam run. Why is your entire team on the ship? So maybe one squadmate got wounded. Why would Shepard be alone on the beam run? Wouldn't two other people who might actually stand a chance of understanding how to operate the Crucible be on the run? I'm looking at Javik and Dr. Tsoni. Even if they weren't on the first part, shouldn't they get off the ship and join Shepard for the second part? And perhaps others to help out once on the Citadel? I know Bob from Accounting will say "that's a terrible idea," because it's logical. And we can't have anything logical happening in Mass Effect.
Its not heroic
The hate is strong in this one.
Liara hate has gotten to be cliche.
The beam run.... Ah yes, the beam run. Why is your entire team on the ship? So maybe one squadmate got wounded. Why would Shepard be alone on the beam run? Wouldn't two other people who might actually stand a chance of understanding how to operate the Crucible be on the run? I'm looking at Javik and Dr. Tsoni. Even if they weren't on the first part, shouldn't they get off the ship and join Shepard for the second part? And perhaps others to help out once on the Citadel? I know Bob from Accounting will say "that's a terrible idea," because it's logical. And we can't have anything logical happening in Mass Effect.
I don't hate Liara. If I included every single NPCs in that list, I would be here all night long. Yes I would have including Feron, Conard Verner, Aria, that random batarian, Another Turian, Asari, Geth, A Shadow Broker Salarian Soldier, Kal the Quarian and several other NPCS. If I was shepard, I would encourage to have Liara to be a safer locations or at least keep her from hot zones where she could be killed off. It is kindva hard to replace A Shadow Broker and train them during wartime and leading a team to various battles to fight the Reapers in order to make time to complete the Crucible. A Dead Liara is a Worthless Liara. Same goes for Shadow Broker.
I don't hate Liara. If I included every single NPCs in that list, I would be here all night long. Yes I would have including Feron, Conard Verner, Aria, that random batarian, Another Turian, Asari, Geth, A Shadow Broker Salarian Soldier, Kal the Quarian and several other NPCS. If I was shepard, I would encourage to have Liara to be a safer locations or at least keep her from hot zones where she could be killed off. It is kindva hard to replace A Shadow Broker and train them during wartime and leading a team to various battles to fight the Reapers in order to make time to complete the Crucible. A Dead Liara is a Worthless Liara. Same goes for Shadow Broker.
That was a critical piece of information missing. This is the internet where misunderstandings occur every minute.
You know, come to think of it I find it hard to believe the Shadow Broker wouldn't have a backup base.
OK so the yahg was overconfident. But he wasn't the original Broker. Wasn't that guy more cautious?
And don't say "lol no he was killed by the yahg". It's implied the yahg had personal access to him at one point. It's completely different from being vulnerable from the outside.
Crutch, everyone in the MEU is dumber than Shepard.
You know, come to think of it I find it hard to believe the Shadow Broker wouldn't have a backup base.
OK so the yahg was overconfident. But he wasn't the original Broker. Wasn't that guy more cautious?
And don't say "lol no he was killed by the yahg". It's implied the yahg had personal access to him at one point. It's completely different from being vulnerable from the outside.
And a supposed 'backup base' prevents him from being killed how, exactly?
If I'm to take the lines from LotSB seriously, the Shadow Broker may have had more than one location where he could run his operation. When Liara slaps on that omni-lockpick doodad onto the hatch on the Shadow Broker's ship, she says that she never broke into the base before, but then says something to the effect of "not this one at least".
Perhaps not a back-up base for the broker, but one of his agent's. Maybe she raided Barla Von's bank accounts?
I don't hate Liara. If I included every single NPCs in that list, I would be here all night long. Yes I would have including Feron, Conard Verner, Aria, that random batarian, Another Turian, Asari, Geth, A Shadow Broker Salarian Soldier, Kal the Quarian and several other NPCS. If I was shepard, I would encourage to have Liara to be a safer locations or at least keep her from hot zones where she could be killed off. It is kindva hard to replace A Shadow Broker and train them during wartime and leading a team to various battles to fight the Reapers in order to make time to complete the Crucible. A Dead Liara is a Worthless Liara. Same goes for Shadow Broker.
This is a really good argument. OTOH, by this standard Shepard shouldn't have been allowed off the ship in ME1, since Shepard was the only person except Saren with an imprint from the Ilos beacon, and therefore was even less replaceable. So we're going to just have to chalk this one up to gaminess.
I don't hate Liara. If I included every single NPCs in that list, I would be here all night long. Yes I would have including Feron, Conard Verner, Aria, that random batarian, Another Turian, Asari, Geth, A Shadow Broker Salarian Soldier, Kal the Quarian and several other NPCS. If I was shepard, I would encourage to have Liara to be a safer locations or at least keep her from hot zones where she could be killed off. It is kindva hard to replace A Shadow Broker and train them during wartime and leading a team to various battles to fight the Reapers in order to make time to complete the Crucible. A Dead Liara is a Worthless Liara. Same goes for Shadow Broker.
My man... what you did with this and your previous post... was the most genius attempt at trolling I've ever seen in my not so insignificant time on the internet. I don't know if that was your intention, but I salute you anyway. That was simply beautiful.
My man... what you did with this and your previous post... was the most genius attempt at trolling I've ever seen in my not so insignificant time on the internet. I don't know if that was your intention, but I salute you anyway. That was simply beautiful.
Ok... miranda maybe if you needed to rescue her sister every other mission, or the number of arse shots had dropped below the required minimum, but the other two?Kal'Reegar, Feron or Miranda would've made much better squadmates than Liara.
Feron isn't a fighter, he lets Liara do all the work in the comic. And while I like Kal'Reegar (the only quarian I didn't find annoying), he was an optional minor NPC in ME2 whose survival depends on your gameplay (and we already have a quarian squadmate, ofc). As for Miranda, they couldn't even write an interesting cameo....
Feron isn't a fighter, he lets Liara do all the work in the comic. And while I like Kal'Reegar (the only quarian I didn't find annoying), he was an optional minor NPC in ME2 whose survival depends on your gameplay (and we already have a quarian squadmate, ofc). As for Miranda, they couldn't even write an interesting cameo....
And they can't write write consistently or in line with her position as Shadow Broker
They certainly write that its ok to take armor off dead bodies and have it displayed like its some kind of trophy in her apartment.
Why? He makes a number of good points and I totally agree with him. Kal'Reegar, Feron or Miranda would've made much better squadmates than Liara.
Miranda is the only one of these three that I would have any use for, but that's also because aside from having a useful power set, her character is compelling enough to warrant her existence on the ship. But what the heck good are the other two? I like Kal'Reegar, but he's not that interesting of a character, and when it comes to the actual squad, he'd just be redundant. Frankly I think the appeal has a lot to do with the fact that his appearances are brief, so he's subject to the Gianna Parasini effect. There's nothing he offers in terms of combat that Tali doesn't, except that he'd likely use an assault rifle than a shotgun, but then I have Garrus, Kaidan/Ashley and the durable James to use those too. Unless Feron is an infiltrator or has some set of talents that no one else on the ship would have other than certain classes of Shepard, I have no use for him either, but more than that, the character himself is useless as a companion on the crew. Why would I want to talk to not-Thane?
When it comes right down to it, other than an Adept Shepard, Liara is the only proper biotic that is always available no matter what. That may not mean much to everyone, but the point is to have enough variety so that everyone can get something out of the group. Aside from that, some people actually like Liara's character, and would like to have her be on the ship as a part of the combat team and companion before Shepard's story is actually over, rather than be replaced by one of the throwaway NPC's like Reegar or Feron.
Edit: To add to this thought, I feel I should address the concept of "making sense" when it comes to substituting Liara with someone else from the cast of known NPC's. I honestly don't buy it at all, and I see it as merely an excuse. It seems clear to me that the primary objective is simply to get rid of her, not to have a more sensible replacement. Kal and Feron are examples of characters whose existence on the Normandy would make even less sense than Liara.
Perhaps not a back-up base for the broker, but one of his agent's. Maybe she raided Barla Von's bank accounts?
No there definitely should be a backup base, or several. An entire information empire playing every major power in the galaxy against each other for the benefit of one individual and he doesn't think to preserve it beyond "durr I hope no one scans this planet!" or worse the admittedly unlikely possibility of actually getting tracked down? What would've happened if Liara didn't care about Feron and just wanted revenge, and instead of an on-foot infiltration she just had Shepard Thanix the **** out of that ship? Bye-bye Shadow Broker? Without any sort of backup and recovery?
Please.
When it comes right down to it, other than an Adept Shepard, Liara is the only proper biotic that is always available no matter what. That may not mean much to everyone, but the point is to have enough variety so that everyone can get something out of the group. Aside from that, some people actually like Liara's character, and would like to have her be on the ship as a part of the combat team and companion before Shepard's story is actually over, rather than be replaced by one of the throwaway NPC's like Reegar or Feron.
Edit: To add to this thought, I feel I should address the concept of "making sense" when it comes to substituting Liara with someone else from the cast of known NPC's. I honestly don't buy it at all, and I see it as merely an excuse. It seems clear to me that the primary objective is simply to get rid of her, not to have a more sensible replacement. Kal and Feron are examples of characters whose existence on the Normandy would make even less sense than Liara.
Well I'm glad their opinion mattered more than anyone else's. The suggested NPCs were admittedly not sound considerations from a squad composition point of view but that doesn't mean any proposed substitution is invalid and "just an excuse to get rid of her".
Now why the squad composition argument can be handwaved is because any character not previously in the squad can be given just about any powers you want (with some limitations). Feron for example could be an adept (and no I don't care about the comics). I don't personally think Feron's a good idea either but there are other characters that could easily fit the adept bill, if that's what you're concerned about.
Oh how about the fact that Garrus and Tali don't get replacements if they die? Does someone then ****** "oh noes there's no engineer or infiltrator(soldier?)"? OK EDI's an engineer but if you don't have Ashley (and you don't for a good chunk of the game anyway) you're potentially left without a sniper. Oh the horrors. In that case we just have to deal with it.
No there definitely should be a backup base, or several. An entire information empire playing every major power in the galaxy against each other for the benefit of one individual and he doesn't think to preserve it beyond "durr I hope no one scans this planet!" or worse the admittedly unlikely possibility of actually getting tracked down? What would've happened if Liara didn't care about Feron and just wanted revenge, and instead of an on-foot infiltration she just had Shepard Thanix the **** out of that ship? Bye-bye Shadow Broker? Without any sort of backup and recovery?
Please.
Did you even read what you wrote?
If the Broker is dead, he's dead. There's not so much of an iota to suggest he's interested in anything but himself. It's his network. His empire. Why reason would he have to preserve it beyond his death?
A substitute for Liara could be Vasir. if we could've had her join us instead of killing her or at least have that option. Samara or Jack. I know both could be dead in ME2. Shiala could join us, of cousre she could be dead as well.
No there definitely should be a backup base, or several. An entire information empire playing every major power in the galaxy against each other for the benefit of one individual and he doesn't think to preserve it beyond "durr I hope no one scans this planet!" or worse the admittedly unlikely possibility of actually getting tracked down? What would've happened if Liara didn't care about Feron and just wanted revenge, and instead of an on-foot infiltration she just had Shepard Thanix the **** out of that ship? Bye-bye Shadow Broker? Without any sort of backup and recovery?
Please.
In the end, a backup facility doesn't mean much if the Shadow Broker himself is dead. Let's say, in this scenario, that Liara did have Shepard simply have the ship on Hagalaz bombed from orbit, just to be sure. What then? I'm loath to use the phrase "because plot", but I think that would apply here. In this story, it would be more than likely that if there were backup facilities, we'd simply know the locations of the backups, because of Cerberus' intel, or the intel we gathered for Liara on Illium. We'd just pick off the Shadow Broker bases one at a time throughout the galaxy, but that's not as interesting as actually encountering the Broker himself. In this case, also, the Shadow Broker's resources would simply be inconsequential to the overarching plot of the trilogy, since it would be disposed of.
Well I'm glad their opinion mattered more than anyone else's. The suggested NPCs were admittedly not sound considerations from a squad composition point of view but that doesn't mean any proposed substitution is invalid and "just an excuse to get rid of her".
Now why the squad composition argument can be handwaved is because any character not previously in the squad can be given just about any powers you want (with some limitations). Feron for example could be an adept (and no I don't care about the comics). I don't personally think Feron's a good idea either but there are other characters that could easily fit the adept bill, if that's what you're concerned about.
Oh how about the fact that Garrus and Tali don't get replacements if they die? Does someone then ****** "oh noes there's no engineer or infiltrator(soldier?)"? OK EDI's an engineer but if you don't have Ashley (and you don't for a good chunk of the game anyway) you're potentially left without a sniper. Oh the horrors. In that case we just have to deal with it.
This is simply the pattern I've observed. I won't say that this is absolutely the case for everyone, but whenever the subject of replacing Liara comes up, it's more often than not framed around the general dislike of her character.
As for other characters that can fit the bill, which ones are these, and how? The problem with most of the characters Shepard encounters is that they are all disposable. Now, if we want to rewrite certain points in the entire trilogy in which some characters are fixed points that are immune to death, then that's a different story, but by ME3, just about everyone can be dead, save for at least one ME2 crew member required to help Shepard at the end of the suicide mission. The fact that this last squad member can be just about anyone makes it problematic. The only real substitute for Liara would have to be a totally new character, like some adept Aliance marine added in like James Vega. But since Liara exists no matter what, there's not much point to that.
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