946 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

I've wondered what was Cerberus' reason for involving Liara. Do you know? I read it was something about keeping Feron in check or some BS that didn't make much sense. To me involving a friend of Shepard's would only jeopardize the operation.

 

I know Bioware's reason for involving Liara. They wanted to give her some purpose after ME1 and she was the most likely LI to motivate her involvement.

 

Liara was reluctant and TIM explains it: "Nothing beats having someone with a personal motive driving them. You were very close with Commander Shepard. When I heard you were here, I knew I wanted you on my team."

 

And a Liara comic obviously sells better than "random cerberus goon saves Shepards body".

[themikefest]

Can you actually threaten to take her back to Therum? Pretty funny if true.

Yes @6:35

 

edit. Thanks to MassivelyEffectiveo730 its at 5:35 instead of 6:35

Modifié par themikefest, 13 avril 2014 - 09:56 .

[themikefest]

Liara was reluctant and TIM explains it: "Nothing beats having someone with a personal motive driving them. You were very close with Commander Shepard. When I heard you were here, I knew I wanted you on my team."

 

And a Liara comic obviously sells better than "random cerberus goon saves Shepards body".

I wonder why he would say that if Shepard is romancing Kaidan or Ashley and that Shepard doesn't give a crap about Liara?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yes @6:35

 

5:35

[von uber]

Some of you really need to let it go you know. It's like an obsession.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I've wondered what was Cerberus' reason for involving Liara. Do you know? I read it was something about keeping Feron in check or some BS that didn't make much sense. To me involving a friend of Shepard's would only jeopardize the operation.

 

I know Bioware's reason for involving Liara. They wanted to give her some purpose after ME1 and she was the most likely LI to motivate her involvement.

 

There was no reason to involve Liara at all on Cerberus end (or from a narrative standpoint).

 

I can see both of the reasons in ME1.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Some of you really need to let it go you know. It's like an obsession.

 

Let what go?

[themikefest]

5:35

My bad. Thanks for clarifying

[von uber]

Let what go?

 

This thing about Liara and the armour, or her coming up to see you in your cabin. It's like every thread.

Why no talk about the ethics of Miranda sleeping with her own patient / creation / science experiment, and whether she upgraded Shepard's nob.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Because we've soon so many insides of asari apartments other than Liara's?

 

As for romanticized view... asari thing in general? Liara's world view? You may not see the world in that way, she does? And once again, she was saved by her, I'm guessing that helped? Perhaps a case of hero worship? She's hardly the only one in Shepard's crew guilty of that.

 

At the risk of repeating myself, it was her personal quest for redemption and a chance to give friend a burial she deserved. I see nothing disturbing in that.

 

 

No, but their typical personalities and a general theme of the series of showing how 'human' aliens are suggest that they aren't all that different from humans on this matter.  I really don't see the logic behind keeping a memento of the commander who treated you like dirt. Yeah, Tali holds the same view of Shepard as well. James does too, though it's a lot more downplayed and justified. The VS to an extent idolizes Shepard as well, based on their reactions to Cerberus in ME2. They're getting their pedestal broken on Shepard.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

How is this indicative of having canon friendships? I'm legit not sure if this is a Davidian satire or not, since it sounds remarkably like something David would say. If so, then bravo. If not, then you're making solutions, denouncing them, and telling us to accept things as they are. You could just not have the squadmate in particular play a role in that respect and not deal with the canon friendship issue at all. There are a lot of ways to write around it to be honest.

 

The problem with this is that you have to not only write different dialogue, but have different animation sequences. These butterfly as one makes choices, and in video games they come back to one path. They have to otherwise you end up with a huge game. The choice becomes "do we sacrifice story to accommodate choices?" Because this could have happened not just with Liara, but with other characters as well. What if I didn't want Miranda on my ship and wanted the option of recruiting Liara off of Illium in ME2. I should have had that option, but I didn't, and I had to deal with it. But they decided to toss us a bone with Liara with LotSB which was a paid DLC. Meanwhile I had to endure gratuitous shots of Miranda's ass and her daddy issues. But that would have required even more content, and would have required another disk for the game, and we wouldn't have had a $59.95 game. We would have ended up with a $100 base game instead or it would have been a $59.95 game with a 5 hr campaign.

[DeinonSlayer]

This thing about Liara and the armour, or her coming up to see you in your cabin. It's like every thread.

Why no talk about the ethics of Miranda sleeping with her own patient / creation / science experiment, and whether she upgraded Shepard's nob.

Remember that RvB bit I mentioned earlier?

 

 

Miranda: "We pretty much replaced all the internal organs, and some of the more disgusting external ones. Except for Shepard's spleen, which will be inflated and used for general recreation, and esprit du corps."

...Yeah.

 

Call it a follow-up procedure.

[von uber]

Remember that RvB bit I mentioned earlier?

 

 

...Yeah.

 

Call it a follow-up procedure.

 

 

You missed my amendment then:

 

Miranda: "We pretty much replaced all the internal organs, and some of the more disgusting external ones. I've even made sure to replace his penis exactly so, because I will probably want to sleep with my own creation."

 

Could be a lot worse, yes.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

This thing about Liara and the armour, or her coming up to see you in your cabin. It's like every thread.

Why no talk about the ethics of Miranda sleeping with her own patient / creation / science experiment, and whether she upgraded Shepard's nob.

 

Because Shepard was the one who willfully began the interaction with Miranda, plus the whole ethic of 'Doctor falling in love with a patient' etc. is a bit more (and I mean a lot more) acceptable than that of a person who isn't even really a friend from some perspectives holding a borderline obsessive flame for the object of their affection. It's a professional ethic versus a psychological attachment problem (if you look at it from a non-romance point);

 

They aren't really all that comparable.

 

As for whether or not Shepard was upgraded in that department is up to speculation. It's not even discussed beyond a comment with Jacob that isn't even really referring to it in context.

[DeinonSlayer]

You missed my amendment then:

 

 

Could be a lot worse, yes.

That...

 

...um...

 

Yeah. Don't ask where she got it from.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The problem with this is that you have to not only write different dialogue, but have different animation sequences. These butterfly as one makes choices, and in video games they come back to one path. They have to otherwise you end up with a huge game. The choice becomes "do we sacrifice story to accommodate choices?" Because this could have happened not just with Liara, but with other characters as well. What if I didn't want Miranda on my ship and wanted the option of recruiting Liara off of Illium in ME2. I should have had that option, but I didn't, and I had to deal with it. But they decided to toss us a bone with Liara with LotSB which was a paid DLC. Meanwhile I had to endure gratuitous shots of Miranda's ass and her daddy issues. But that would have required even more content, and would have required another disk for the game, and we wouldn't have had a $59.95 game. We would have ended up with a $100 base game instead or it would have been a $59.95 game with a 5 hr campaign.

 

That still doesn't tell me why Liara has to canonically be in love with me (and my Shepard to feel some kind of emotional connection to her in a way beyond my own control). That doesn't tell me why I have to canonically be friends with Liara and treat her as a cherished friend in ME2 and ME3. That doesn't even tell me why I can't have the game go my way in ME3, the final installment, and, similar to the VS, just have Liara disappear from the game if you give her the boot to Hackett. Let Sam do the job. She's been doing it all anyway, and all I miss is a squadmate that wasn't helpful to me anyway.

[von uber]

Well what if my Shep hated Miranda. Why can't I turn her in for being a terrorist with the Council? She's no friend from that perspective but I have to put up with it. Someone keeping a bit of my armour (like Legion; why isn't her a weird stalker too? He bloody well wears the thing!) is fairly small thing to be concerned about.

 

Anyway, this whole armour thing is from a Liara centric DLC that basically exists tofurther your relationship with Liara. So you should play it knowing what to expect (and if you all hate her so much, why the hell did you buy it?). And yet some of you still bloody moan.

[jtav]

That does bring up another point. I'd love to be able to "turn in" my squad for WA. I don't really want Garrus around this game, but I don't want to kill him either.

[themikefest]

That does bring up another point. I'd love to be able to "turn in" my squad for WA. I don't really want Garrus around this game, but I don't want to kill him either.

To bad there wasn't an option to have him on the ship or not when you meet Victus on Palaven's moon. He doesn't get replaced if he's dead in ME2.

[von uber]

Garrus on the Normandy makes no sense. He should stay with the Turian forces.

[themikefest]

Well what if my Shep hated Miranda. Why can't I turn her in for being a terrorist with the Council? She's no friend from that perspective but I have to put up with it. Someone keeping a bit of my armour (like Legion; why isn't her a weird stalker too? He bloody well wears the thing!) is fairly small thing to be concerned about.

 

Anyway, this whole armour thing is from a Liara centric DLC that basically exists tofurther your relationship with Liara. So you should play it knowing what to expect (and if you all hate her so much, why the hell did you buy it?). And yet some of you still bloody moan.

I, for one, wasn't expecting to see  my armor in her apartment on display when I first played the dlc. Did anybody expect that?

 

If you don't like Miranda just don't bring her on any missions and you can have her die during the suicide mission if you want.

[jtav]

I don't really mind it--his conversations are excellent--but I was thinking of romancing Samantha and want the extra dialogue.

[themikefest]

Unfortunately he has to be dead for that.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Well what if my Shep hated Miranda. Why can't I turn her in for being a terrorist with the Council? She's no friend from that perspective but I have to put up with it. Someone keeping a bit of my armour (like Legion; why isn't her a weird stalker too? He bloody well wears the thing!) is fairly small thing to be concerned about.

 

Anyway, this whole armour thing is from a Liara centric DLC that basically exists tofurther your relationship with Liara. So you should play it knowing what to expect (and if you all hate her so much, why the hell did you buy it?). And yet some of you still bloody moan.

 

It isn't even so much about roles in the story? It's about defining relationships. I can define my relationship with nearly every squadmate except Liara. I have to consistently be kind, gentle, and caring for her. As jtav said, you can easily maintain a character's importance in the plot without having to be their best friend or lover.

 

Hmm, I thought the DLC was about the Shadow Broker and its implications on the galaxy and Liara taking charge over his organization. From what I recall, Shepard and Liara's relationship was an advertised feature for those players who wanted to rekindle that relationship. The DLC wasn't about her in that context. It was about advancing the plot of the game, or at least adding to it. I bought it because I wanted to see what it would offer for my Shepard's story in the trilogy. Damn right I'm going to moan about it. Do you have a problem with it? You can leave or ignore it if you like. I'm going to keep moaning about forced interactions between characters and my PC that I have no control over with dialogue. I don't like having my Shepard forced to think or feel or hold a particular a view. Obviously, there's a limit to how far this can go, but I believe that prior to LotSB, there was a happy medium accomplished (a few hiccups here and there of course). Then comes LotSB, and coming with it, a new, idealized version of BW's Shepard. And seeing as this is a site designed with fan feedback in mind, I'm going to respond with my own feedback.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

That still doesn't tell me why Liara has to canonically be in love with me (and my Shepard to feel some kind of emotional connection to her in a way beyond my own control). That doesn't tell me why I have to canonically be friends with Liara and treat her as a cherished friend in ME2 and ME3. That doesn't even tell me why I can't have the game go my way in ME3, the final installment, and, similar to the VS, just have Liara disappear from the game if you give her the boot to Hackett. Let Sam do the job. She's been doing it all anyway, and all I miss is a squadmate that wasn't helpful to me anyway.

 

It's the same reason I have to put up with this:

 

When I returned to the Citadel to talk to Anderson after getting my spectre status reinstated, I should have been able to have Miranda, Jacob and the entire crew of the Normandy SR-2 arrested as Terrorists in ME2, then seized the ship for my own use since it was the asset of a terrorist organization. Why wasn't I able to do that? Why? Because I had to go along with a derpy plot and work for Derperus - the terrorist organization I hated and took down one operation after another in ME1.

 

But I couldn't do that. Why did I have to do that? It was canonically wrong. 

 

The entire plot with the canons from start to finish was a piece of crap. If ME3 had a good ending we would have overlooked these flaws. But it had a sh**** ending and as such all of the flaws of the entire series come into focus.