Garrus on the Normandy makes no sense. He should stay with the Turian forces.
Indeed. And you now know how I feel about Liara. Her presence on the Normandy makes no sense to me. However, instead of leaving her or making come along being mandatory, I'd like to be able to choose her fate. I'd send her off to Hackett or wherever to have her focus on peripherally assisting me in the war effort.
Indeed. And you now know how I feel about Liara. Her presence on the Normandy makes no sense to me. However, instead of leaving her or making come along being mandatory, I'd like to be able to choose her fate. I'd send her off to Hackett or wherever to have her focus on peripherally assisting me in the war effort.
I'd send her to Hackett if I could. Likewise Tali should be able to stay with her people; Garrus would have things to do elsewhere, it's all a matter of whether the player is willing to pare down their squad to that degree.
But, then, if we didn't drag Liara along, we wouldn't be able to auto-agonize alongside her over the loss of Thessia, while she complains about a lack of Alliance air support months after the Asari left humanity hung out to dry.
It's like if ME1 made it mandatory to take her to Noveria to confront Benezia. Probably the most painful writing in the series up until Kai Leng came along.
Indeed. And you now know how I feel about Liara. Her presence on the Normandy makes no sense to me. However, instead of leaving her or making come along being mandatory, I'd like to be able to choose her fate. I'd send her off to Hackett or wherever to have her focus on peripherally assisting me in the war effort.
I see your point. But it raises the very big issue of Bioware having to have a character who is close to Shepard and guaranteed to be alive.
Like everything we end up back at the problems of ME2.
People really need to accept that not every conversation carries over to the next game, it simply wouldn't have been worth the investment of time and resources. Canonically, Shepard treated her squadmates well in previous games. For example, you can be a jerk to Tali in ME1 and didn't let her take the stuff for her pilgrimage...and she will still tell Shepard that she always loved him. Garrus always thinks he saved Shepards ass on Feros, Noveria and Ilos...and Shepard refers to him as a true friend, etc.
And every new Bioware game had some mandatory companions. Why am I forced to recruit Tali in ME1? Garrus or Jack in ME2? Dragon Age, Dragon Age2, Jade Empire....some companions were optional and some were mandatory. You don't like one of them? Better luck next game.
It's the same reason I have to put up with this:
When I returned to the Citadel to talk to Anderson after getting my spectre status reinstated, I should have been able to have Miranda, Jacob and the entire crew of the Normandy SR-2 arrested as Terrorists in ME2, then seized the ship for my own use since it was the asset of a terrorist organization. Why wasn't I able to do that? Why? Because I had to go along with a derpy plot and work for Derperus - the terrorist organization I hated and took down one operation after another in ME1.
But I couldn't do that. Why did I have to do that? It was canonically wrong.
The entire plot with the canons from start to finish was a piece of crap. If ME3 had a good ending we would have overlooked these flaws. But it had a sh**** ending and as such all of the flaws of the entire series come into focus.
I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. You can hold Cerberus to be canonically wrong for your Shepard. You can fight them at every opportunity. You can hate working for them in ME2. You can define your relationship with the crew as negative if you so choose. I disagree completely on the definition of Cerberus as a terrorist organization (and having engaged them myself, I do honestly believe I have more of an ability to judge whether they are or aren't than most)
I can't do the same to the alliance in ME3. I can't do the same to Liara or the paragon characters in ME3. I don't have agency over my Shepard anymore. You at least have agency over his stances. I don't even have that in ME3. I have to hate Cerberus. I have to love the alliance. I have to be best friends with Liara. What is the game missing if I can be scornful and derisive of the alliance and council in ME3? What is the game missing if I have the ability to notionally sympathize with and support Cerberus in ME3, even if I have to oppose them since they've been indoctrinated? What is the game missing if I can be negative towards Liara to a point where I can kill her in the finale or at least send her off to Hackett?
I'd send her to Hackett if I could. Likewise Tali should be able to stay with her people; Garrus would have things to do elsewhere, it's all a matter of whether the player is willing to pare down their squad to that degree.
But, then, if we didn't drag Liara along, we wouldn't be able to auto-agonize alongside her over the loss of Thessia, while she complains about a lack of Alliance air support months after the Asari left humanity hung out to dry.
It's like if ME1 made it mandatory to take her to Noveria to confront Benezia. Probably the most painful writing in the series up until Kai Leng came along.
If she is sent to Hackett, she could leave Hackett long enough to do the Thessia mission and then sent back to Hackett.
In ME2, you can greet Garrus in a nonchalant way, "Garrus? Is that you?" which leaves him rather miffed. You can greet Tali by threatening to gun down her entire squad. You can be pretty standoffish with the VS, and while Wrex's greeting is enthusiastic, Shepard's response doesn't have to be. Through this, we're allowed the RP flexibility to establish our relationships to all of those characters. Liara is the only one who draws Shepard into an intimate hug in a scene we're not allowed to skip.People really need to accept that not every conversation carries over to the next game, it simply wouldn't have been worth the investment of time and resources. Canonically, Shepard treated her squadmates well in previous games. For example, you can be a jerk to Tali in ME1 and didn't let her take the stuff for her pilgrimage...and she will still tell Shepard that she always loved him. Garrus always thinks he saved Shepards ass on Feros, Noveria and Ilos...and Shepard refers to him as a true friends, etc.
And every new Bioware game had some mandatory companions. Why am I forced to recruit Tali in ME1? Garrus or Jack in ME2? Dragon Age, Dragon Age2, Jade Empire....some companions were optional and some were mandatory. You don't like one of them? Better luck next game.
Why can't I be a jerk to Liara like I was in ME1? Is it because ME3 is for new players and the previous 2 don't matter?
If she is sent to Hackett, she could leave Hackett long enough to do the Thessia mission and then sent back to Hackett.
Why does she even need to come back at all for Thessia? Beyond having an Asari Commando as a guide to the Temple proper as a proxy for Liara that gets killed fighting Leng, there's nothing on Thessia that warrants her presence. Sure, maybe she can send you an email or two about it, but her presence isn't mandatory, though it is hilarious to see Javik trolling the **** out of her.
"Amazing! Shepard, the beacon must recognize you as Prothean because of the Cipher!"Why does she even need to come back at all for Thessia? Beyond having an Asari Commando as a guide to the Temple proper as a proxy for Liara that gets killed fighting Leng, there's nothing on Thessia that warrants her presence. Sure, maybe she can send you an email or two about it, but her presence isn't mandatory, though it is hilarious to see Javik trolling the **** out of her.
Why does she even need to come back at all for Thessia? Beyond having an Asari Commando as a guide to the Temple proper as a proxy for Liara that gets killed fighting Leng, there's nothing on Thessia that warrants her presence. Sure, maybe she can send you an email or two about it, but her presence isn't mandatory, though it is hilarious to see Javik trolling the **** out of her.
I know. I personally don't want her on the mission. But as you say I would only have her because of Javik.
My goodness, do we have a load of people making desperate arguments here.
I still think Javik Breaks Mass Effect should be a thing.
"Commander! These asari had their throats slit. I sense the cowardice of the Kai Leng primitive! Bring in the Normandy, he'll try to hide behind a gunship!"
Is that a foil to Anderson's "I still think Javik Breaks Mass Effect should be a thing.
"Commander! These asari had their throats slit. I sense the cowardice of the Kai Leng primitive! Bring in the Normandy, he'll try to hide behind a gunship!"
Is that a foil to Anderson's "
RamirezShepard, take this pistol and do everything!"
That really annoyed me as a biotic.
I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. You can hold Cerberus to be canonically wrong for your Shepard. You can fight them at every opportunity. You can hate working for them in ME2. You can define your relationship with the crew as negative if you so choose. I disagree completely on the definition of Cerberus as a terrorist organization (and having engaged them myself, I do honestly believe I have more of an ability to judge whether they are or aren't than most)
I can't do the same to the alliance in ME3. I can't do the same to Liara or the paragon characters in ME3. I don't have agency over my Shepard anymore. You at least have agency over his stances. I don't even have that in ME3. I have to hate Cerberus. I have to love the alliance. I have to be best friends with Liara. What is the game missing if I can be scornful and derisive of the alliance and council in ME3? What is the game missing if I have the ability to notionally sympathize with and support Cerberus in ME3, even if I have to oppose them since they've been indoctrinated? What is the game missing if I can be negative towards Liara to a point where I can kill her in the finale or at least send her off to Hackett?
No you're not getting it. This particular Shepard was pro-Alliance. She never would have worked for Cerberus. She knew where her loyalties were. Why did she have to work for them in ME2. Why couldn't she just do that in ME2. It was no different a railroad than what you're talking about. In fact it was worse. You may disagree with me about Cerberus being a terrorist organization. I'm going by how this particular Shepard views them. You're bringing personal politics into this. I'm role playing this Shepard. This Shepard was plot railroaded.
So we've seen the limitations of this media, and no matter if you mentioned that I may have given a David argument, there are limitations to this media that are not present in a pen and paper type RPG or in an open world sandbox type RPG. There are going to be things that we don't like, and there aren't going to be any way of fixing them. We are at the mercy of the writers, and they're not going to try to please everyone because we know what happens when they do that. They end up pleasing no one. Writing by committee is a pain in the ass and you've got compromises all over the place especially with the size of writing team they had on this game. It's a mess.
This was a story we wanted to like. The characters made the story and caused us to overlook all of the flaws. Then someone decided that Liara was the canon LI for Shepard. Someone up high on the totem pole. You can do that in a book, but not in a RPG. Then the ending ruined the whole thing.
Ashley, Kaidan, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Mordin, Jack, James and EDI were all mandatory squadmates at some point in Mass Effect. Not to mention mandatory crewmembers like Traynor or Kelly. But Liara NEEDS a reason to be on the ship and if someone doesn't give a concrete reason why she's there they want her gone? And while Liara doesn't remember every conversation in ME1, her content in ME3 does change depending on how you've treated her in the game (unlike Garrus' content for example..."you're awesome" or "OMG YOU'RE AWESOME!!!!")
Liara was a mandatory squadmate on Mars. Requirement fulfilled. And Palaven. And Thessia.
Otherwise, no Mordin and Jack are not mandatory squadmates. You don't have to do any mission with them that is required to finish the game.
And I've never seen that for Liara to be honest. I've never seen where her content in ME3 changes based on how you treat her, only whether you romance her or not. And even then (especially prior to the EC), that wasn't even the case.
That really annoyed me as a biotic.
Really? You get 'really annoyed' because someone hands your character a weapon when they enter combat?
You get 'really annoyed' by that?
'Really annoyed' by that, huh?
Otherwise, no Mordin and Jack are not mandatory squadmates. You don't have to do any mission with them that is required to finish the game.
Really? You can skip curing the genophage and still beat the game, eh?
Guest_Jesus Christ_*
Liara was a mandatory squadmate on Mars. Requirement fulfilled. And Palaven. And Thessia.
Otherwise, no Mordin and Jack are not mandatory squadmates. You don't have to do any mission with them that is required to finish the game.
And I've never seen that for Liara to be honest. I've never seen where her content in ME3 changes based on how you treat her, only whether you romance her or not. And even then (especially prior to the EC), that wasn't even the case.
I always thought Mordin was required as a squadmate. Isn't he needed to come up with a defense against the seeker swarms?
Really? You can skip curing the genophage and still beat the game, eh?
Really? You get 'really annoyed' because someone hands your character a weapon when they enter combat?
You get 'really annoyed' by that?
'Really annoyed' by that, huh?
Yes Mr Simpleton, because as a Biotic those Husks were dead before he had a chance to say "you remember how to use a gun don't you?".
So it 'really annoys' you that you're given a weapon because you can take them out with biotics? That 'really annoys' you? Just making sure I'm clear on that. You're 'really annoyed' by that? That's something that 'really annoys' you?
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