34723 réponses à ce sujet

[thesuperdarkone2]

Everyone knows Cass loves Stormcloaks and not filthy milk-drinking Wimperials.

[Br3admax]

Cass hates both sides indiscriminately for both being ****** tools. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Cass hates both sides indiscriminately for both being ****** tools. 

Bah, what a safe cowardly answer "Both sides are mean, both sides are bad." Bah, the only one that benefits from this is the Empire. Like accepting a tie when you were already winning. There is nothing gained from remaining with the Empire. All that will happen is they'll continue to suck Skyrim dry.

[AresKeith]

Bah, what a safe cowardly answer "Both sides are mean, both sides are bad." Bah, the only one that benefits from this is the Empire. Like accepting a tie when you were already winning. There is nothing gained from remaining with the Empire. All that will happen is they'll continue to suck Skyrim dry.

 

Or take Skyrim yourself because you're the Dragonborn

[Br3admax]

Bah, what a safe cowardly answer "Both sides are mean, both sides are bad." Bah, the only one that benefits from this is the Empire. Like accepting a tie when you were already winning. There is nothing gained from remaining with the Empire. All that will happen is they'll continue to suck Skyrim dry.

It's not a safe cowardly answer. It's the truth. So much so that I usually ignore the entire civil war if I'm playing Skyrim. If I'm siding with anyone, it's the Empire: The Empire is Law. The Law is Sacred. And As long as Skyrim needs to Empire to feed them, which pretty much anyone in the actual fertile parts of Skyrim will tell you they do, they can shut the **** up about all that "Skyrim is for the Nords," bullshit. The Empire didn't abandon Morrowind because they no longer needed it. They left because the largest mountain in the world blew up all over it, and it was a province they hardly had control over to begin with. The Empire also fought a large portion of Hammerfell's little war for them, but no one ever wants to remember that. That being said, **** Mede and **** Stormcloak. They're bad for Skyrim and the Empire both. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Or take Skyrim yourself because you're the Dragonborn

That's the last thing I'd want. The dragonborn's good at killing. Ruling though?

 

Nah, Ulfric's the one that took half the place himself in one political move. I'll leave the ruling to someone that actually wants to. The dragonborn's talents are best used on the field.

[Lady Artifice]

Cass hates both sides indiscriminately for both being ****** tools. 

 

Changed my mind. This. 

 

what a wise answer "Both sides are ineffectual, both sides are recklessly weakening themselves against the enemy." Bah, the only one that benefits from this is the Thalmor. There is nothing gained from fighting each other. All that will happen is they'll continue to suck Skyrim dry.

 

Fixed. 

 

[Colonelkillabee]

It's not a safe cowardly answer. It's the truth. So much so that I usually ignore the entire civil war if I'm playing Skyrim. If I'm siding with anyone, it's the Empire: The Empire is Law. The Law is Sacred. And As long as Skyrim needs to Empire to feed them, which pretty much anyone in the actual fertile parts of Skyrim will tell you they do, they can shut the **** up about all that "Skyrim is for the Nords," bullshit. The Empire didn't abandon Morrowind because they no longer needed it. They left because the largest mountain in the world blew up all over it, and it was a province they hardly had control over to begin with. The Empire also fought a large portion of Hammerfell's little war for them, but no one ever wants to remember that. That being said, **** Mede and **** Stormcloak. They're bad for Skyrim and the Empire both. 

Wrong. First of all Erikur and the Solitude court themselves said they're not getting a damn thing from them. And they've been feeding themselves before the Empire just fine. There's no way in hell they're selling me that BS, especially when the ones who control the biggest part of trade, the east empire company, is actually an independent business and will continue to be regardless.

 

Second of all, no, play dragonborn, and they'll tell you they abandoned them during the oblivion crisis and left them and all the other provinces to fend for themselves, and they didn't fight for hammerfell, the imperials who decided to disobey their Emperor's orders helped fight after being disbanded, then after they were abandoned to the thalmor, the Redguards had to fight the rest themselves.

 

"The Empire is law". Well I say **** the police, and I said it with authority. I'm no one's ******.

[Colonelkillabee]

Here's some more of that wonderful unity:

 

http://colonelkillab...els-the-naughty

[Xilizhra]

LTTP: I don't focus on the details of the lore here about Chantry lay sister clothes. Maybe there's something to be said about it.

 

I just look at the writer and intent.... what's the overall motivation for choosing to present Bull that way. Just to do it for the sake of it? Usually writers don't just insert things for the sake of it. Unless they suck. All of them know how to play with symbolism. And that's why I jump to my conclusions. Symbolism. And I think Weekes is kind of iconoclastic in general.

Iconoclasm is often an honorable path. And religious types have done far, far worse in terms sexual than just talk about a qunari being sexy; it's probably a good thing that the Chantry is less sexually uptight than the Catholic Church (better still when Leliana lifts that damn celibacy thing).

 

If we're talking about Skyrim's civil war, I don't really like either side, but I lean towards the Stormcloaks because I believe Ulfric's story deserves an ending that isn't ignominious.

[Colonelkillabee]

Iconoclasm is often an honorable path. And religious types have done far, far worse in terms sexual than just talk about a qunari being sexy; it's probably a good thing that the Chantry is less sexually uptight than the Catholic Church (better still when Leliana lifts that damn celibacy thing).

For once, we actually agree on something. Not that first bit, but the latter, lore discrepancy aside.

[Br3admax]

Wrong. First of all Erikur and the Solitude court themselves said they're not getting a damn thing from them. 

*cough*"The Empire is good for business, and business is good for Skyrim. "*cough* 

Not to mention how important the East Empire Company is. 

And they've been feeding themselves before the Empire just fine. There's no way in hell they're selling me that BS, especially when the ones who control the biggest part of trade, the east empire company, is actually an independent business and will continue to be regardless.

Except the court you just cited as a reliable source says otherwise. The heartlands provide Skyrim with most of it's food resources, and the population is much larger now than it was thousands of years ago when Nords first started assimilating with the various Empires of Men. 

 

 

Second of all, no, play dragonborn, and they'll tell you they abandoned them during the oblivion crisis and left them and all the other provinces to fend for themselves,

You mean like all the provinces did themselves? Are you seriously blaming the empire for protecting it's capital during a continent wide crisis and not sending troops to every province? All 8 of them?

 and they didn't fight for hammerfell, the imperials who decided to disobey their Emperor's orders helped fight after being disbanded, then after they were abandoned to the thalmor, the Redguards had to fight the rest themselves.

Not really. The Empire cannot openly support Hammerfell in any war with the Thalmor anymore than the Thalmor can openly support Ulfric during the Civil War. Imperial troops, knowing the costs, stay behind and are officially condemned. Seems a lot more likely to me than a bunch of random soldiers deciding that sand is worth dying over. Sand they never much cared for. 

"The Empire is law". Well I say **** the police, and I said it with authority. I'm no one's ******.

You think being Ulfric's lapdog doesn't make you a ******. It does. 

[Colonelkillabee]

snip

courtesy of a friend of mine:

 

https://docs.google....ZC9MKqLu_c/edit

 

For the first time in a very long time I came across some information related to the civil war that I was actually not aware of, thus I have to break it down and incorporate it in the view of the situation.

The information I refer to are a couple of conversations that takes place in the Solitude Court, one between Falk and Erikur and one between Elisif, Bryling and Erikur.

Conversation 1:

Erikur: "I've heard the Empire plans to levy a tax on our trading ships. Falk, you've got to do something about this."

Falk: "General Tullius needs more money for the war effort. We need the funds to arm and provision more troops."

Erikur: "Then let's increase the taxes on the farms and merchants. We can't afford to lose the loyalty of the ship captains."

Falk: "We know full well about your investment in shipping ventures, Erikur. I've also heard troubling rumors about dealings between you and the crew of that pirate ship, the Red Wave. Thankfully, Jarl Elisif cares far less about your lost profits than she does about winning the war!"

Erikur: "The Jarl would be wise to remember that it is her thanes - and my profits - that are paying for this war."

Conversation 2:

Elisif: "As you know, Solitude's coffers are much depleted by the war efforts. Thane Erikur, you have a strong head for business. What do you suggest?"

Erikur: "This is an unfortunate but unavoidable ebb in revenue. But as long as we continue to support the Empire, our sacrifices will be well rewarded."

Bryling: "Listen to you, speaking of sacrifice. You've never gone hungry a day in your life, Erikur!"

Elisif: "And what would my impetuous Thane Bryling suggest, instead?"

Bryling: "Simple. Let the Empire fight its own war, with its own funds, and without hijacking our supplies and soldiers. Let Haafingar rebuild."

Erikur: "My lady... Surely you're not that naive. Such foolishness would only leave us defenseless. The rebels would storm the palace in an afternoon."

Bryling: "The Stormcloaks only rebel because the Empire uses Skyrim as its personal larder. The more they take, the more support the rebels gain!"

Elisif: "That is quite enough. Perhaps I will raise these issues when I have an audience with General Tullius."

What I take to be the most important pieces of information here are the ones about Haafingar Hold and its Thanes being the ones who fund the Imperial side of the civil war in Skyrim, and the claim Erikur makes about the Empire not protecting them if the Empire had to fund their side in the war.

Other interesting pieces of information in light of this comes from the generic Legion Legates and from a somewhat obscure line by General Tullius:

Generic Legate:

You mean Ulfric's so-called "Stormcloak rebellion"? The Nord kings - oh, excuse me, "Jarls" - they can't seem to control their own people. So the Legion has stepped in to keep order. Sadly, the Empire's stretched a little thin these days, and we've gotten very few reinforcements. So we've been forced to recruit locally. But rest assured, citizen. We'll put an end to this uprising... and things will get back to normal soon enough.

General Tullius:

Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes.

Simply put, the point here is that the Empire is spread thinly and relies on local recruits to fight.

One last conversation, between Elisif and her Housecarl.

Bolgeir: "We lost another five guardsmen, my Jarl. If General Tullius continues to conscript our men and send them off to battle, we'll have none left to protect the city."

Elisif: "Yes, I know. The general acted with my blessing. It is vital that we bring Ulfric to justice, but that cannot happen until his army of Stormcloaks is defeated utterly."

Bolgeir: "Told you that, did he? I'm sworn to protect you, my Jarl, but I'm the last line of defense. The first line is the walls around this city and the men who patrol them. Men who, I might add, we're precious short on."

Elisif: "I'm aware of that, Bolgeir, and I appreciate your dedication. However, if we lose the war, the guardsmen of Solitude will make little difference in the end."

Bolgeir: "No disrespect toward the general, but sometimes I wonder if he's got your best interests at heart. In any case he won't be turnin' me into no Imperial soldier. I know my place, and it's at your side."

Elisif: "It comforts me to know that, Bolgeir."

In addition to local recruits, the Legion in Skyrim conscripts guardsmen.

Based on these few pieces of information, it seems that the Imperial side of the civil war is is pretty much Imperial in name only, as the Empire’s contribution seem to be limited to having General Tullius, a competent military commander, lead the efforts to beat the Stormcloaks, while Solitude, and Haafingar, in general are the ones who pay for it and the soldiers come from local recruits and guardsmen. While is not a problem in general, but something that is interesting to keep in mind when Tullius says this to Ulfric Stormcloak at the end of the Stormcloak side of the civil war:

Tullius: "The Thalmor. They stirred up trouble here. Forced us to divert needed resources and throw away good soldiers quelling this rebellion."

 

And yes, I absolutely blame them for sacrificing their many other provinces for their own individual province. What good is an Empire if it won't even protect you.

 

And no, serving the guy that wants to let his people be free and worship in safety isn't being someone's ******. Serving an Empire that doesn't give a damn about you is.

[MisterJB]

The Empire is the only thing keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim.

Other than setting up an embassy and having one in the Imperial delegation and keeping the border open for them.

In fact, one could say the Empire is the only thing keeping the Thalmor in Skryim.

[Jaison1986]

The Empire is the only thing keeping the Thalmor out of Skyrim.

Other than setting up an embassy and having one in the Imperial delegation and keeping the border open for them.

In fact, one could say the Empire is the only thing keeping the Thalmor in Skryim.

 

 They pretty much rolled the red carpet for the Thalmor. How can people support an group that openly works with the enemy out of weakness and cowardice is beyond me.

[LightningPoodle]

Not really for me either, but I have to keep it PG in here. I'm already on thin ice as it is with 6 warning points.

 

I have 6 too. I knew I wasn't the only one! I just knew it! 

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

To boom and I, that's hardly smutty or dirty

I have no idea what you're implying......

[Colonelkillabee]

I have no idea what you're implying......

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I am the spitting image of innocents.....

[Lady Artifice]

Here's some more of that wonderful unity:

 

http://colonelkillab...els-the-naughty

 

When I first started playing Skyrim, my impulse was to favor the Stormcloaks immediately. 

 

I can understand your passion about this, definitely. It just seems that the Thalmor are benefited by the debacle more than anyone. 

[BabyPuncher]

Skyrim is a great example of how utterly crude and ridiculous the understanding of the video game community in general is of moral 'greyness.'

 

Sure, the Imperials are actively collaborating with a regime that obviously intends to, at the very minimum, subjugate their own people and more likely wipe them out. Sure we see them attempting to execute innocent people and using torture chambers and all that. Sure, they're pathetic in their hypocrisy and weakness of pretending they don't think Talos is a God.

 

But the Stormcloaks might be kinda sorta somewhat racist!

 

So morally ambiguous! So grey! Who can possibly penetrate this fog of ambiguity! Truly, this is a conundrum beyond the most esteemed minds!

[Siha]

At first, Cassandra remains loyal to the Divine. But when she dies, she defies the Chantry and establishes the Inquisition.

 

Is it only when she dies? Does that add up? They were looking for Hawke a year or so ago. Wasn't that under the cowl of the Inquisition already? But the Divine dies at the beginning of DAI, just when we get the mark. And didn't she say something about how the Divine thought of the Inquisition? I am not sure, really, but I thought the had still been alive.

 

Bah, what a safe cowardly answer

 

I don't know enough about TES lore, so I will keep it only about Cass. And what Br3admax said does not seem so far off. Cass would probably really not ally with either side and try to find own allies instead. She does not turn to the Templars, Chantry, mages or anyone at first. (And is not too convinced when they finally do have to side with one fraction.) Instead, she wants to re-establish the Inquisition because not even her own Seekers seem willing and up to do what she wants to do. And so I actually think he has a point here when saying she would probably act the same way in Skyrim.

[LightningPoodle]

I'm a Stormcloak supporter because I don't like Roman skirts. That's pretty much the only reason. 

[Merela]

 

Source: http://iamcountaluca...st/115251592084