34724 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Would you feel the same way if it was an image of Sera with a male Inquisitor?

Is it an image of a male Inquisitor snuggling with Sera or is it an image of a well-hung Qunquisitor spraying down Sera's DD breasts while her mouth hangs open in some sort of horrid 'sexy' facial contortion? My experience is that when a lesbian character has sex with a man in fan art, it's often done in a way I find gross and objectifying.

Alternatively, I *prefer* the female LIs to be bisexual. I am used to seeing my PC's love interest in stories and art with both men and women. The idea of Sera being with a man doesn't bother me.

 

I agree it is probably harmless for the most part, but I can't agree with it on principle

I think this is where we really disagree. In principle, I have no objection to a fan changing any aspect of a character. Gender, race, sexual orientation, species, SEL, personality, class and abilities, etc.

I do, however, judge fan creations the same way I do any piece of artwork or literature. A beautification mod that makes Vivienne white is sending the message 'White women are more attractive than non-white ones.'

As I disagree with the message, I dislike the mod.

[Sporothrix]

The difference is this:

 

Making a lesbian character be into your male pc doesn't necessarily imply that you have anything against their homosexuality, just that you like that character

 

But making a black character white does imply that you have a problem with their blackness, and that is not ok and should not be promoted through modding/fanfic/fanart etc.

 

Such mods would be completely broken anyway, lacking voice and, considering that her homosexuality would rather be pointed out somehow in the dialogue, making the experience feel completely unnatural. So I wouldn't compare it even with writing fanfic.

[jlb524]

Personally, I am crushed by not being able to romance Cassandra as a female Inquisitor, but I've never used mods to bypass gender restrictions on romances, and even if it were available in DA:I I wouldn't use it...because I want to play as a woman and experience romances written for female characters as a woman, and mods can't change that.

 

 

Eh, yeah the mods won't be good either way.  There will definitely be issues with voice acting (female will use male voice set and vice versa).  Then there is going to be weird clipping issues during any type of romance scene.   That's in addition to dialog not fitting your gender.

 

And I'm sorry about Cassandra *hugs*

[Ziggy]

I don't really see that following. How is modding someone in a way that makes you feel that they're more attractive, different from modding them to be more available? Hell, the latter might be worse, as the former doesn't actually change anyone's character.

 

What Maria said.

[Sporothrix]

Is it an image of a male Inquisitor snuggling with Sera or is it an image of a well-hung Qunquisitor spraying down Sera's DD breasts while her mouth hangs open in some sort of horrid 'sexy' facial contortion? My experience is that when a lesbian character has sex with a man in fan art, it's often done in a way I find gross and objectifying.
 

 

And looking through comment sections under such pics, it's obvious it panders to homophobic mentality of "lesbians need d*** to turn them", that fuels "corrective rapes".

 

 

Alternatively, I *prefer* the female LIs to be bisexual. I am used to seeing my PC's love interest in stories and art with both men and women. The idea of Sera being with a man doesn't bother me.

Only female LIs? Wouldn't it look like perpetuation of damaging message that "all women are bi to some point (while all men are only either 100% straight or gay)"?

[Maria Caliban]

Only female LIs?

I have little investment in what BioWare does with male love interests. I am far more likely to defer to straight women, gay men, and bisexual men and women in how male LIs should be handled.
 

Wouldn't it look like perpetuation of damaging message that "all women are bi to some point (while all men are only either 100% straight or gay)"?

Are you imagining some hypothetical situation where all of Dragon Age: Inquisition's romances are under my power?

Because that's an odd thing to take from my saying I prefer bisexual female LIs in a conversation about fan fiction.

[syllogi]

Eh, yeah the mods won't be good either way.  There will definitely be issues with voice acting (female will use male voice set and vice versa).  Then there is going to be weird clipping issues during any type of romance scene.   That's in addition to dialog not fitting your gender.

 

And I'm sorry about Cassandra *hugs*

 

This is kind of why I'm somewhat neutral on mods making homosexual characters available for straight romance...I don't imagine that the modders have access to the voice actors or have that level of expertise with the toolset to make it feel "authentic", if that makes any sense.  I understand why others find it offensive, though, since compulsory heterosexuality is a real thing.

 

And thank you for your support.  It really sucks that yet another female character that I really, really like and connected to will be off limits for romance, but by now I'm very familiar with the drill. 

[AresKeith]

Lots of people complain about the lack of realism in games, ie. no sword sheats, no quivers, yadda yadda yadda. A romance option that is inaccessible because of orientation? Blasphemy!

Actually I think quivers are in the game (unless Sera's character kit was all LIES

Sword sheath's too to an extent

[wickedgoodreed]

The difference is this:
 
Making a lesbian character be into your male pc doesn't necessarily imply that you have anything against their homosexuality, just that you like that character
 
But making a black character white does imply that you have a problem with their blackness, and that is not ok and should not be promoted through modding/fanfic/fanart etc.

I disagree. To me making a lesbian character sexually interested in men implies that one doesn't respect her identity. You have a problem with who she is and you solve it by changing her into something she's not in order to fulfill your desires.

And whether motivated by homophobia or not, doing so reinforces harmful messages that lesbians secretly desire men or can/should be "cured."

[Alan Rickman]

Is it an image of a male Inquisitor snuggling with Sera or is it an image of a well-hung Qunquisitor spraying down Sera's DD breasts while her mouth hangs open in some sort of horrid 'sexy' facial contortion? My experience is that when a lesbian character has sex with a man in fan art, it's often done in a way I find gross and objectifying.

 

You need to stop browsing Rule 34, and for the love of god do not read any comments.

 

If I could draw even one bit, I'd be flooding the interwebs with incredibly sappy, lovey-dovey Sera/Dudequisitor porn.

[Ziggy]

I disagree. To me making a lesbian character sexually interested in men implies that one doesn't respect her identity. You have a problem with who she is and you solve it by changing her into something she's not in order to fulfill your desires.

And whether motivated by homophobia or not, doing so reinforces harmful messages that lesbians secretly desire men or can/should be "cured."

 

Yeah idk, I do see that perspective and problem. But I like fanfic with straight characters depicted as lesbian and don't see how you can argue that you "must respect a characters identity" without keeping straight characters straight as well. Which would make me sad. 

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

I disagree. To me making a lesbian character sexually interested in men implies that one doesn't respect her identity. You have a problem with who she is and you solve it by changing her into something she's not in order to fulfill your desires.

And whether motivated by homophobia or not, doing so reinforces harmful messages that lesbians secretly desire men or can/should be "cured."

 

I think you are being overdramatic. These mods exist solely to make characters available to people who can't have them in the vanilla game. It's not about sending some homophobic message into the world about curing gays. They are characters, not people, they don't have real identities and they can change in future games based on what Bioware writers decide.

 

The only thing these modders are doing is taking the pen from Bioware and adjusting the characters to fit their own PERSONAL fantasies. They are not putting ads on TV about how they fixed Bioware's game and fixed the gay people to be straight.

 

I don't do it myself, but I'm not about to tell people what they should or should not do with their game, just because other people out there in the world might feel offended.

[wickedgoodreed]

These characters and mods don't exist in a cultural vacuum.

[MisterJB]

God I hate those. It's like people denying the characters being the people that they are. 

Personally, it never bothered me much, one way or the other.

Probably because before playing RPGs, I watched Anime and making a character whose sexuality has been extablished be attracted to a different gender is par for the course.

Then there is the gender bending, the male pregnancies, etc.

[Sporothrix]

Yeah idk, I do see that perspective and problem. But I like fanfic with straight characters depicted as lesbian and don't see how you can argue that you "must respect a characters identity" without keeping straight characters straight as well. Which would make me sad. 

 

It's barely comparable though. There is no equivalent of "corrective rapes" on straight people, or "straight reparative therapies". Not to mention overwhelming majority of characters in any media are straight.

[Roamingmachine]

I don't feel this is exactly character assassination
 

Pants...on Isabella *gasp, wheeze* Pants are from the devil we must rid the world of them! >_< Seriously, can't imagine her actually wearing full pants outside her ship. Onboard its a different matter. No sane person would work on a sailing ship without at least knee-length shorts unless they like their legs covered in scabs and tar

As for the whole mod issue....It's like rule 34. Don't think about it and don't go there unless you actually want to. And even then you will propably ignore the stuff that aren't your particular fetish. The Aryan mod for Isabella might make my eye twitch but so long as people who use it keep it private, I have no problem with them having it. Even if its existence makes me facepalm.

[sharkboy421]

I have to admit I was quite bummed that Cass will be straight only.  When Bioware announced that there would be orientations for LIs I was very disheartened but I had hoped that since Cass was going to be a LI from the start that maybe she would still be available to both genders.  (I may be mistaken but I beleive when DAI was still going for a 2013 release it was planned to follow DA2's model for LIs.)

 

I do understand the want for characters to have their own set indentities and don't cater to the players every whim and fancy, but I guess in this case I would have prefered to lose a little bit of that for just a few more choices I could make.  I really liked in DA2 that Hawke could romance anyone, regardless of gender.  I was really hoping DAI would follow suit.  While I was dissappointed that Sera and Dorian were exclusive it didn't hit me quite like it did with Cass.  Cass was a character I already knew and liked while Sera and Dorian were new.  I'm sure I'll come to love them just as much but right now I just don't know them well enough.

 

To me, it was the overall personality of Anders, Merrill, Fenris and Isabella that made them attractive or not and I had hoped that in DAI I would get a similar freedom.  I'm just a little bit saddened this won't quite be the case with DAI.  Though I'm sure the bro(sis?)mance with Cassandra will be quite awesome.

[Ianamus]

The difference is this:

 

Making a lesbian character be into your male pc doesn't necessarily imply that you have anything against their homosexuality, just that you like that character

 

If someone is putting in the effort to create a mod that changes a characters sexuality then obviously they have an issue with their homosexuality or heterosexuality, or they wouldn't be changing it. 

 

"I really like this character so I want them to be a different sexuality so I can romance them" is no different from "I really like this character so I want them to have an appearance that is attractive to me". Both show an equal lack of respect to the character in question, in my opinion. 

[ReelRipper]

I remember watching some footage of a modded DA: O where much of the characters designs were altered especially Leliana who looked amazing(very similar to her appearance in the trailer I might add). I never use mods although if it fixs bugs or enhances my experience I'm game but not so I'm able to bed one of the characters or some of those more freakier ones that make me feel a little sick.

 

[Maria Caliban]

If someone is putting in the effort to create a mod that changes a characters sexuality then obviously they have an issue with their homosexuality or heterosexuality, or they wouldn't be changing it.

"I really like this character so I want them to be a different sexuality so I can romance them" is no different from "I really like this character so I want them to have an appearance that is attractive to me". Both show an equal lack of respect to the character in question, in my opinion.

Yeah, queer fans don't make characters gay/bisexual because we hate heterosexuality or straight people.

[Ianamus]

I think this is where we really disagree. In principle, I have no objection to a fan changing any aspect of a character. Gender, race, sexual orientation, species, SEL, personality, class and abilities, etc.

I do, however, judge fan creations the same way I do any piece of artwork or literature. A beautification mod that makes Vivienne white is sending the message 'White women are more attractive than non-white ones.'

 

It's a strange grey-area, I guess. 

 

I do often look at and enjoy rule 63 or alternate-universe interpretations of characters, which can change anything about a character from their gender to altering their personality slightly. 

 

But changing the race of a character seems to cause a lot more contention. It's impossible to draw an image of a non-white character making them white without people harassing you about white-washing, regardless of whether it is an alternate interpretation of that character or not. 

 

I must admit that I'm on the fence about the latter. And my conclusion is that I either say that any alteration to a character is acceptable, including the Isabela race-lift mods, or that none are. Otherwise I feel like a hypocrite. 

 

 

Yeah, queer fans don't make characters gay/bisexual because we hate heterosexuality or straight people.

 

 

I know, but I feel that if it were a gay character like Dorian or Sera being made bisexual/straight it would result in a lot of "homophobic" remarks from some of the queer fans. 

 

It's tricky. Again, I feel like it's walking on a fine line. Is it acceptable to go altering all characters sexualities in fan interpretations or not?

 

The idea of the first homosexual companions in a modern Bioware game being made straight or bisexual in fan work does aggravate me, and therefore I feel that It would be hypocritical for me to accept the same thing happening to Cassandra or Cullen. 

[colabottle]

Cassandra once held the position of Sera and Josephine: characters that are new that people have yet to meet and see in action.  Making Cassandra bisexual ensures that those that would have preferred Josephine would likely have not gotten the romance that they enjoy.  So, as stated, it ends up being a wash.

 

Why can't Cass and Josephine both be bi? Why does there have to be an equal amount of women that men and women can romance? You haven't followed that in other games apart from Dragon Age 2, with most bioware games having far more women that can be romanced by men. So it seems to be they only have to be equal to stop men getting less female love interests than women do.

[Sporothrix]

If someone is putting in the effort to create a mod that changes a characters sexuality then obviously they have an issue with their homosexuality or heterosexuality, or they wouldn't be changing it. 

 

"I really like this character so I want them to be a different sexuality so I can romance them" is no different from "I really like this character so I want them to have an appearance that is attractive to me". Both show an equal lack of respect to the character in question, in my opinion. 

 

Having in mind everything I said earlier, I don't really think that such mods imply anything like that. Referring to Sera as an example, of course someone who's homophobic may want to use such mod to "fix that lesbian", but all he'll get from it is most likely silent protagonist and the lesbian referring to him as to female. I think most people who use such mods simply don't like playing as different gender, and they want to experience romance with character they like.

 

BTW, so you think that prior to introduction of same sex romances in ME, people who used such mods were heterophobes?

[Tenebrae]

Yeah, queer fans don't make characters gay/bisexual because we hate heterosexuality or straight people.

 

Is that so, then why assume the worst about all modders/fanfiction writer who chose to turn gay/lesbian characters straight/bisexual?

 

Seems quite hypocritical to me.
 

I personally don't like it when people mess with character canon , so this is just general curiosity.