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They're tatooting the symbols of gods in their skin so as to preserve the old ways.
It is, undeniably, a religious rite and incompatible with the worship of any other gods.
I don't see how. If one saw the Maker as existing, but as less hostile to other faiths than the Chantry sees him, I don't see how it'd be incompatible to revere both the Maker and the Creators, for instance.
I don't see how. If one saw the Maker as existing, but as less hostile to other faiths than the Chantry sees him, I don't see how it'd be incompatible to revere both the Maker and the Creators, for instance.
For one, the very assumption of the existence of a Maker speaks out against the Creators. Either one made the world, or the others did. At most, one could reconciliate the faiths by claiming both are different names for the same divine entity but you can't claim both exist.
Regardless, to emblazon the symbol of a god on your face it's a rather obvious and religious statement. Otherwise, Dalish could tatoo symbols of other aspects of their culture. If anything, Human societies are far more acceptant of agnoistic views than that of the Dalish.
For one, the very assumption of the existence of a Maker speaks out against the Creators. Either one made the world, or the others did. At most, one could reconciliate the faiths by claiming both are different names for the same divine entity but you can't claim both exist.
It's actually extremely easy to say that they both exist, because the Maker claims to have made the world and the Creators do not. And religious syncretism has melded less compatible faiths before IRL.
Regardless, to emblazon the symbol of a god on your face it's a rather obvious and religious statement. Otherwise, Dalish could tatoo symbols of other aspects of their culture. If anything, Human societies are far more acceptant of agnoistic views than that of the Dalish.
It might be to a human, but it's just a part of Dalish culture. In many European countries that have a state religion, it's not at all uncommon to be registered as a member of a specific religion while not actually having any real faith. For your statement to have any weight to it, I'd need to hear of Dalish actually being put down for being atheistic/agnostic in dialogue.
It might be to a human, but it's just a part of Dalish culture. In many European countries that have a state religion, it's not at all uncommon to be registered as a member of a specific religion while not actually having any real faith. For your statement to have any weight to it, I'd need to hear of Dalish actually being put down for being atheistic/agnostic in dialogue.
you realize there's, like, five Atheists in Thedas, right? Not counting the thousands of versions of the Warden, Hawke, and the Inquisitor made by hardline Atheist players who bristle at the idea of making characters who are anything other than hardline Atheists.
It's a Medieval setting. There are devout and not devout, but most people are going to more or less believe in a supernatural origin for things. There's no compelling evidence to convince people otherwise (No Thedosian Richard Dawkins running around), and the compelling reason to believe is Magic and Demons and sh*t.
you realize there's, like, five Atheists in Thedas, right? Not counting the thousands of versions of the Warden, Hawke, and the Inquisitor made by hardline Atheist players who bristle at the idea of making characters who are anything other than hardline Atheists.
It's a Medieval setting. There are devout and not devout, but most people are going to more or less believe in a supernatural origin for things. There's no compelling evidence to convince people otherwise (No Thedosian Richard Dawkins running around), and the compelling reason to believe is Magic and Demons and sh*t.
You may wish to quote JB there, as I was responding to what he said about humans being more tolerant of agnostics.
You may wish to quote JB there, as I was responding to what he said about humans being more tolerant of agnostics.
No. You're the one who said the Dalish would let Atheists join them (which I do in fact think is a dubious claim, though an Elf is an Elf to some clans I'm sure).
I was just pointing out that Thedas is a Medieval world that has never heard of evolution or Chaos Theory. There's like five Atheists. The vast majority of City Elves joining them are going to be embittered Andrastians with very little in the way of Religious Conviction. But they will likely still be Andrastians. Who will then be pressured, if not outright forced, to accept The Creators.
Can we not turn this into an atheism debate thread? These things only lead to lockdown.
Edit: Because, you know, off topic.
No. You're the one who said the Dalish would let Atheists join them (which I do in fact think is a dubious claim, though and Elf is an Elf to some clans I'm sure).
I was just pointing out that Thedas is a Medieval world that has never heard of evolution or Chaos Theory. There's like five Atheists. The vast majority of City Elves joining them are going to be embittered Andrastians with very little in the way of Religious Conviction. But they will likely still be Andrastians. Who will then be pressured, if not outright forced, to accept The Creators.
The transition shouldn't be too difficult if they aren't going around saying that all mages should be imprisoned or that the Dalish are heathens. If they sought out the Dalish, clearly they're willing to learn.
Can we not turn this into an atheism debate thread? These things only lead to lockdown.
Mea Culpa.
I think using Coerce dialog options to make Cassandra abandon her beliefs is squicky. You shouldn't be able to make someone give up what they fought for for 20 years because you think she's hot and the religion gives you a frowny face.
Mea Culpa.
I think using Coerce dialog options to make Cassandra abandon her beliefs is squicky. You shouldn't be able to make someone give up what they fought for for 20 years because you think she's hot and the religion gives you a frowny face.
Ah, so I take it you're against rivalmance options in DA2 as well?
Ah, so I take it you're against rivalmance options in DA2 as well?
With the passion of 10,000 suns. I get that some people dig the Kiss-Kiss-Slap arc. I just see Abuse and unpleasantness.
I can't fathom why you'd want to be with someone who to holds the core of their being something you find abhorrent. Besides the fact that they're hot 
.
With the passion of 10,000 suns. I get that some people dig the Kiss-Kiss-Slap arc. I just see Abuse and unpleasantness.
I can't fathom why you'd want to be with someone who to holds the core of their being something you find abhorrent. Besides the fact that they're hot
I have no interest in romancing Cassandra, I just don't want to bolster the Chantry.
I have no interest in romancing Cassandra, I just don't want to bolster the Chantry.
"Everything you believe in is a lie and I'm going to undermine the organization you served loyally for two decades every chance I get... but you're gonna help me anyway cuz I gots the glowy hand" is perfectly valid.
"Everything you believe in is a lie and I'm going to undermine the organization you served loyally for two decades every chance I get... now get naked for me!" is squicky. Objectifying and squicky.
I don't see how. If one saw the Maker as existing, but as less hostile to other faiths than the Chantry sees him, I don't see how it'd be incompatible to revere both the Maker and the Creators, for instance.
I disagree. We only know the Maker through what the Chant says about Him. And the Chant says this:
"As there is but one world,
One life, one death, there is
But one god, and He is our Maker.
They are sinners, who have given their love
To false gods."
The theologies of the Elven Pantheon and the Chantry are incompatible. This verse proves it. The only way to combine them is to selectively choose which parts of their selective theologies you think are true, and which ones you believe are false.
But once you start doing that, do you really believe in either of them?
It's like saying you believe in God, but not the Bible. The Bible is how the world knows about God. Once you throw it out, you've created a new god with the same name and some similarities with the god that Bible-thumpers worship. But this God is not the same. He has no set boundaries and words by which we can know Him. He exists on the whim of those who worship him, and ceases to be a god at all, eventually.
*End off-topic tangent*
Edit: To make this post on topic: Cassandra believes in the Maker, and the Chant. I highly doubt you can bring her to accept any other worldview than that. She may accept it if your Inquisitor holds another view, but it's going to be a serious barrier to romance, IMO.
Notice how, hardened or not, Leliana is still a believer in the Maker? Cassandra served as the right hand of the Divine for 20 years. A few conversations with the Inquisitor are not going to shift her faith very far. Change aspects of it, sure. but you're not going to make her an atheist. This is my opinion, based on all the people I know who are of a deep religious faith, and intimate knowledge of those I have seen fall away from it. Those who leave their faith(not just their church, but their faith) behind either never had strong faith to begin with, or let their faith wither to the point where it was very hollow.
Cassandra doesn't strike me as the person to do either. So romancing her as an atheist Inquisitor, to me, seems like romancing Isabela as a celibate Hawke. It's going to cause issues.
Still depressed I can't romance Cassandra tbh, but at least we can be ~Best Friends~
His might sound kind of Warhammer 40k, but if the Fade is a reflection of the thoughts/emotions of races that dream couldn't that bring about the Maker? The Chantry preaches that when the Chant is heard across the four corners of the world then the Maker will return, what if it's generating enough of a presence in the Fade to manifest a Maker-like entity?
Reminds me of this. About 18 seconds in. I fail at posting youtube videos at specific times:
you know, we've had a lot of south park references through out the forum this week, i think its awesome that they all make sense when applied to the arguments, but at the same time depressed that a cartoon people dont take seriously has this much wisdom
Where is your evidence that they don't? I have examples like every City Elf who joins them is either converted(ex. Lanaya) or in the process of converting(ex. Pol).
Your examples are men and women who willingly joined the Dalish to become part of their culture. The notion that Who Knows brought up would also fit the Qunari during the New Exalted Marches, where the Qunari forced people to convert. There's a world of difference between something like that (as well as behavior of that sort, which is the issue some people have with the Andrastian Chantry), and the Dalish.
And no, the Dalish religion permanently shuns humans from them so they can reclaim their immortality. That's much nicer.
Someone forgot to tell that to the Dalish when they adopted the infant Aveline and took in Feynriel, who is technically human by WoG.
Also, no proof the Chantry invades. Dalish started the war by invading Orlais.
Simply because you hate the Dalish doesn't mean their historical account about the war of the Dales is wrong.
Simply because you hate the Dalish doesn't mean their historical account about the war of the Dales is wrong.
Must you always make the blanket assumptions when this pops up?
Must you always make the blanket assumptions when this pops up?
She already said she hated the Dalish before. I can post her comment here if you'd like.
She already said she hated the Dalish before. I can post her comment here if you'd like.
Please don't, this thread is off topic as it is. I you're so offended by what she has to say, report and ignore.
you realize there's, like, five Atheists in Thedas, right? Not counting the thousands of versions of the Warden, Hawke, and the Inquisitor made by hardline Atheist players who bristle at the idea of making characters who are anything other than hardline Atheists.
Assuming Cassandra doesn't have an issue with a protagonist who doesn't follow the Andrastian faith, it shouldn't even be an issue.
It's a Medieval setting. There are devout and not devout, but most people are going to more or less believe in a supernatural origin for things. There's no compelling evidence to convince people otherwise (No Thedosian Richard Dawkins running around), and the compelling reason to believe is Magic and Demons and sh*t.
What was it Morrigan said when Leliana brought up spirits and magic? She said, "The fact of their existence does not presuppose an intelligent design by some absentee father-figure." And since atheism existed for centuries in our world (long before Richard Dawkins was born), I can see the parallel in fictional Thedas.
I doubt Cassandra particularly cares whether or not the Dalish or the Chantry began a war 700 years ago. What would that have to do with the current crisis?
What she would care about? Stabbing inanimate objects. I'm thinking that in addition to a table, she'll be stabbing at least one cloth or tapestry in DA:I. Thoughts?
I doubt Cassandra particularly cares whether or not the Dalish or the Chantry began a war 700 years ago. What would that have to do with the current crisis?
What she would care about? Stabbing inanimate objects. I'm thinking that in addition to a table, she'll be stabbing at least one cloth or tapestry in DA:I. Thoughts?
Tapesties don't have enough substance to be really satisfying to stab. But I could see her going into the kitchen to shank a ham or a loaf of bread.
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