34723 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackrising]

I disagree entirely with the concept that because something is more common it automatically makes it worse. Just because 90% of the time racial slurs are used against a minority does not mean that if a racial slur is used against someone of the majority it is "less wrong". It is just as wrong. 

 

Where on Earth does that train of logic even lead? Hate crimes against the majority are less bad than hate crimes are against the minority? Assaulting someone for being the more common sexuality is less of a hate crime than assaulting someone of a less common sexuality?

 

No. I don't care "what flies" or not, treating people differently solely based on their race, gender or sexuality is wrong no matter what, and all equally wrong, no matter who is doing it to who. 

 

Sorry about the major diversion from the topic, but I really hate hypocrisy and double standards. And believing that some forms of racism, sexism or sexual discrimination are somehow "less wrong" is a position that I take serious issue with. 

 

First off, I was not talking about hate crimes or violence. That is a whole other category and wrong no matter the circumstances.

 

I also do get your point of view, but let me elaborate on mine.

 

It is not so much a matter of 'less wrong' and more a matter of 'less damaging'.

The problem I see with your train of thought is that you do not consider that the playing ground is inherently uneven. What matters is the amount of power every party involved holds. The majority has it, the minority doesn't. And a giant stomping down on a rabbit is bound to be more effective than the rabbit nibbling on the giant's leg.

 

Let's look at a discriminating statement and apply it to both a straight person and a gay person. (Note: I am using the topic of homophobia here because it is the one I am most familiar with. You may exchange it with any other minority and get the same results.)

"Gay people are unnatural!/ Straight people are unnatural!"

 

So, a straight teenage boy gets told his sexuality is unnatural. What do you think his reaction is gonna be? Is he gonna break down, get suicidal because of it? No, he won't. He's gonna shrug it off. Why is that? Because our entire society is modeled after him, after what people perceive as the 'norm'. He is accepted everywhere he goes, nobody in his environment is gonna fault him for being straight. He has all the rights and all the privilege and some person insulting him certainly is no skin off his back. He and people like him have not been systematically oppressed or discriminated against time and time again. Hell, he's probably gonna find the whole incident funny. What a weird person, telling him something so ridiculous.

 

Now let's switch to the viewpoint of another teenage boy, except this time he's gay and someone tells him his sexuality is unnatural. What is HIS reaction gonna be? I can tell you right now, he's not gonna laugh it off. He's not gonna go on and live his life, because unlike the straight teenager, he HAS experienced discrimination before and probably a lot of it. If you belong to a minority, you WILL get discriminated at some point in your life. This teenage boy sees the 'norm' all around him - in every TV show, in every book he reads, in every moment of his life -  and the accepted 'norm', the way people expect you to be, is not him. Now let's imagine his family is not happy with his lifestyle. Let's imagine his parents kicked him out for being the person he is, because that kind of situation is unfortunately still far more COMMON than anybody would like. Him and people like him HAVE been systematically oppressed and discriminated against time and time again. What do you think he's gonna feel like?

 

And what situation do you think has done more damage to the person involved?

 

I am ready to fully agree with you as soon as the playing ground has been leveled. But until then, until minorities have the same exact rights and are no longer discriminated against for the sole reason of being who they are, until the power distribution is even, you will have to excuse me for feeling far less sympathetic towards the majority than the minority.

[WoolyJoe]

First off, I was not talking about hate crimes or violence. That is a whole other category and wrong no matter the circumstances.

 

I also do get your point of view, but let me elaborate on mine.

 

It is not so much a matter of 'less wrong' and more a matter of 'less damaging'.

The problem I see with your train of thought is that you do not consider that the playing ground is inherently uneven. What matters is the amount of power every party involved holds. The majority has it, the minority doesn't. And a giant stomping down on a rabbit is bound to be more effective than the rabbit nibbling on the giant's leg...

 

...I am ready to fully agree with you as soon as the playing ground has been leveled. But until then, until minorities have the same exact rights and are n...o longer discriminated against for the sole reason of being who they are, until the power distribution is even, you will have to excuse me for feeling far less sympathetic towards the majority than the minority.

 

This. This. And this again.

 

But, I'm afraid, there's not enough time in the day for anybody to argue on the BioWare Forums.

 

Live and learn.

 

Peace and love, peeps! 

[Ianamus]

 

 

-snip-

 

I see your point, and you are right about the damage being higher to someone of a minority in real life.

 

I simply make it a point to ignore all cultural considerations when dealing with these situations and view the issue solely on an instance-by-instance basis, since something that is considered a cultural norm may still be morally objectionable in my eyes.

 

I admit that it may not be looking at the bigger picture, but I try to look at everything from an even baseline by default in an attempt to be as fair as possible. Even though the world is definitely not as full of equality as I wish it was that should not alter my stance on what is or is not right, or exactly how bad something is.

 

I have been accused of being too "black and white" before, and perhaps this is the case.

[WoolyJoe]

On topic: So, Cassandra, huh? What's going on there then...?

[Blackrising]

 

 

 

I see your point, and you are right about the damage being higher to someone of a minority in real life.

 

I simply make it a point to ignore all cultural considerations when dealing with these situations and view the issue solely on an instance-by-instance basis, since something that is considered a cultural norm may still be morally objectionable in my eyes.

 

I admit that it may not be looking at the bigger picture, but I try to look at everything from an even baseline by default in an attempt to be as fair as possible. Even though the world is definitely not as full of equality as I wish it was that should not alter my stance on what is or is not right, or exactly how bad something is.

 

I have been accused of being too "black and white" before, and perhaps this is the case.

 

 

Your stance is not a bad one or a wrong one, not at all. I think we both have our points and when it comes to something as important as equality, it's probably impossible to find one way of acting or seeing things that can be seen as 100% right in every instance.

So, let's shake hands and toast to equality hopefully being achieved one day - with all that entails.

 

 

Uh, back on topic:

 

Dayum, dat Cassandra! So stabby. Much sexy. Very romance.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No, that her fans would resort to pictures like "Please don't be straight." I thought the Cassandra fans were more mature then that. You don't see the rest of us place pictures like "Please don't be gay."

Well, we'd be insulted and called terrible people if we did that. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And they broke up and she became single again 

Can't break up if they never got together. 

[Blackrising]

Well, we'd be insulted and called terrible people if we did that. 

 

Nah, we'd just be confused because you don't really have anything to worry about.

 

 

Can't break up if they never got together. 

 

Or if he got eaten by a dragon before they had a chance to do so.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Or if he got eaten by a dragon before they had a chance to do so.

That works too, though I prefer he lives since he was interesting. 

[Former_Fiend]

If Cassandra was a Tom Waits song, which Tom Waits song would she be?

[Blackrising]

If Cassandra was a Tom Waits song, which Tom Waits song would she be?

 

What'cha talkin' 'bout, Willis Former_Fiend?

 

EDIT: http://www.tomwaits..../262/Lie_To_Me/

[HunterX6]

I would have preferred if they kept her initial long hair like in the concept art. Maybe in DA:I you can help her decide in keeping it short or growing it long depending on your conversations with her? You know for those who prefer long hair or short hair. 

[Blackrising]

I would have preferred if they kept her initial long hair like in the concept art. Maybe in DA:I you can help her decide in keeping it short or growing it long depending on your conversations with her? You know for those who prefer long hair or short hair. 

 

Doubt that's gonna happen. Plus, I really like her short hair. It makes her look tough and strong and badass.

[HunterX6]

Doubt that's gonna happen. Plus, I really like her short hair. It makes her look tough and strong and badass.

Just hoping since I instead actually dislike the short hair on her.

[Blackrising]

don't worry, i probably won't be posting here ever again. thanks, if you decided to read this

 

Aww, don't get yourself down because of all this. The Bioware forum just...takes some getting used to. We are a bunch of very opinionated peeps here and things get heated pretty fast, but I wouldn't miss it for the world. If you got a tough enough skin, it's actually a really good platform for hearing other people's opinions. Those opinions might frustrate or anger you - and I've wanted to punch someone through my screen on more than one occasion - but sometimes it's really fun here. Somehow.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

don't worry, i won't be posting here ever again. thanks, if you decided to read this

Oh, don't let it bug you. Pretty much everyone here has said something that steps on someone else's toes. 

 

I'd reply to your post, but I see everyone has dropped the issue so I will do the same.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

well, sorry, it's just kind of hard for me to not be a little on the defensive when people in this thread are treating me as though i support hate crimes against straight people, or something (their words, not mine) just because of some silly picture that wasn't hateful at all

 

i'm not even angry or frustrated, i'm just... tired.

 

(alright, sorry, NOW i'm leaving, promise)

 

Wait, someone threatened you? That's serious business. If you are referring to my post, I should say I meant no malevolence towards you. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

oh, nooo no. no one threatened me. i'm talking about the few people blowing this way out of proportion, acting as though i was being hateful or intolerant towards straight people, or supporting hatred towards entire groups of people, when i wasn't at all

 

and i must say i was a little confused by people criticizing the wording of the original post, and then saying something along the lines of "she should be available to both genders" because... that still isn't straight. by saying she should be available to both genders, they're saying she should be bi, not straight, which means they're saying the exact same thing i said... yet they're attacking me for saying it plainly

this entire thread is just so confusing and i'm still slightly surprised about the fact that i was reprimanded for my original post, but whatever

 

maybe i'll still stay around here for a while, i dunno. i just hate conflict

Ah, okay. That's good. Glad nobody is threatening you. 

 

"Available to both genders" does not necessarily mean bisexual. Are you aware of the concept of playersexuality, where the character is attracted to the gender of the player character? So for example if male, the companion is attracted to males and if female, to females. An example is Merrill from Dragon Age 2 since she gives no hints to her sexual preference other than she likes Hawke. So I can validly say she is straight in my playthroughs since there is no evidence otherwise. Meanwhile another player can say she is lesbian or bisexual and be just as valid as my claim is.

[Milan92]

well, sorry, it's just kind of hard for me to not be a little on the defensive when people in this thread are treating me as though i support hate crimes against straight people, or something (their words, not mine) just because of some silly picture that wasn't hateful at all

i'm not even angry or frustrated, i'm just... tired.

(alright, sorry, NOW i'm leaving, promise)

Alright I admit that I probably was a bit too harsh with that whole image. So I apologize to you as well. The whole discussion got dragged on for too long and got blow out of proportion - while the only thing you wanted was to show your love for Cassandra. So I'll take the blame for this whole thing.

This whole thing has reminded me of the old Ashley straight v.s bi thing and I was one of the people that rooted for her to be bi. So it would make me a hypocrite if I was against Cass now.

I hope you guys will be able to romance Cass as a female too. In the end what matters is that we love her character

So please, dont feel like you have to leave this thread.

[Allan Schumacher]

Why are you still continuing when clearly a mod came through here and sweeped it out intentionally. Drop it. Or take it to PM. This thread doesn't need to be derailed any further.

 

 

This.

 

 

EDIT: A bit more happened since I posted this, but it's mostly just an endorsement to put this behind.  I look at the post as an enthusiastic post because they are interested in the character, that some took as problematic and it was addressed, and I'd prefer people continue talking about Cassandra (in so much as they can, given the information available to her) rather than the tangent.

[Milan92]

So, to come back to Cassandra. I think it would be interesting if Regalyan would show up. He seemed like a cool dude and it could provide some interesting interaction if one romanced Cassandra.

[Divine Justinia V]

As someone else said earlier, I'd love to hear about him during her person quest.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So, to come back to Cassandra. I think it would be interesting if Regalyan would show up. He seemed like a cool dude and it could provide some interesting interaction if one romanced Cassandra.

As long as he realized he missed his chance then we're fine. If he thinks he can turn that chaste kiss into something more, me and him are going to have problems.

[Milan92]

As long as he realized he missed his chance then we're fine. If he thinks he can turn that chaste kiss into something more, me and him are going to have problems.

 

That goes without saying

[WildOrchid]

This whole thing has reminded me of the old Ashley straight v.s bi thing and I was one of the people that rooted for her to be bi. So it would make me a hypocrite if I was against Cass now.

I hope you guys will be able to romance Cass as a female too. In the end what matters is that we love her character

 

 

Hmm, let's see...

 

 

I for one would approve if they keep make her straight.

 

I don't see you here supporting Cass being bi, in fact you wished she 'remains' straight (as if there was any proof of her being straight) Not sure if you were joking.

 

 

 

 

@i hate myself, don't let people let you down. Bsn has been like that for ages now. So, please keep posting!