34723 réponses à ce sujet

[Solrest]

I'm all for Cassandra's DA:I looks. I found Aveline attractive too, I don't agree with this "they look manly" business. Also concerning her age, she's from a family of dragon hunters in a fantasy universe. I could easily see her holding up as a frontline fighter well in to middle age.

[Finnn62]

 

Wow, Cassandra looks even cuter with no make-up, imo   She looks good with make-up, but, imho, most people look better without. Personally, I'd hope we get to see her with no make-up at some point in-game, but I won't be too disappointed if not. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well, I generally agree. Characters shouldn't be designed to fit one model of attractiveness.

 

I'm not suggesting she should be made more attractive, but just that maybe a few traits could be tweaked so everything fits together a bit better. Otherwise, I quite like her reptilianess.

 

Except for one problem. 

 

Why is it that only the straight male love interest that is being designed to go against the norm ?

 

Why is it that the straight female love interest feature a masculine strong bearded male ? That's a traditional trope that no one seems to have issue with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual male love interest is a very handsome, dashing, well dressed and well groomed male ? That is a traditional gay male stereotype that again, not many people have issues with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual female love interest is hot and tomboyish ? This is once, again, a lesbian female stereotype that people mostly get and don't mind.

 

Why is it for the other love interests, we can have traditional tropes and traditional stereotypes that no one takes issue with or do not seek to change except for the straight male one ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is being challenged but not the rest ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is viewed as politically incorrect or in need of redefinition but not the rest ? 

 

In some cases as we have seen with some posters on this topic, why is it that the declaration of preference for traditional stereotype of straight male love interest results in being shamed on, being dismissed whereas the stereotypes for other sexualities are celebrated ?

[HK-90210]

Also, since the discussion's getting a bit heated:

 

Rule #1:

 

Be respectful and courteous
The BioWare Forum is a safe and constructive space to discuss BioWare Edmonton/Montreal developed video game content and related items. In order to keep this a fun place for all community members, there are a few ground rules that must be followed for all methods of communication.

It is okay for users to disagree with one another, but opinions must be expressed in a reasonable and polite manner. It is important to maintain an atmosphere of civility and respect, so that all voices may be heard.

 

 

Just my two cents. Keep trying, by all means.

[Super Drone]

I think Cassandra looks gorgeous just the way she is and I am consumed with jealousy for those who find it easy to roleplay a straight male in videogames.

just, y'know, getting it out there

 

I do find it kinda tragic that so many girls like her while so many guys don't.

 

 

Her "type" (austere and brittle, the "Veronica" romance that you have to "tame" or "defrost" part of the romance arc) is never my type, but it always seems to be the designated hetero female. I wish they'd switch it up every now and again.  

[Aimi]

Why is it that the homosexual female love interest is hot and tomboyish ? This is once, again, a lesbian female stereotype that people mostly get and don't mind.

what.

First of all, "hot" is subjective, so I dunno what it's even doing there. I think Cassandra is hot. I'm more ambivalent about Sera. YMMV.

Although my self-esteem would like to thank you for describing the stereotypical lesbian as "hot".

Secondly, "tomboyish"? What exactly about her is "tomboyish"? Her clothing style isn't overtly "male" in any way, shape, or form. "Personality" isn't going to get you anywhere. She wears plenty of makeup. Her hair, while messy and poorly cut, is still longer than most men wear theirs. I see a lot of things in Sera's design; I don't see "tomboy".

[Solrest]

Except for one problem. 

 

Why is it that only the straight male love interest that is being designed to go against the norm ?

 

Why is it that the straight female love interest feature a masculine strong bearded male ? That's a traditional trope that no one seems to have issue with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual male love interest is a very handsome, dashing, well dressed and well groomed male ? That is a traditional gay male stereotype that again, not many people have issues with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual female love interest is hot and tomboyish ? This is once, again, a lesbian female stereotype that people mostly get and don't mind.

 

Why is it for the other love interests, we can have traditional tropes and traditional stereotypes that no one takes issue with or do not seek to change except for the straight male one ? Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is being challenged but not the rest ? Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is viewed as politically incorrect or in need of redefinition but not the rest ? 

 

My argument towards what you're saying is entirely based around Cassandra being an established character not newly created for the game. Yes her appearance doesn't perfectly match how she looked in DA2's graphic setting, but it still seems like a natural transition to me given the updated graphics. Keep in mind that she's not a young as she was in Dawn of the Seeker, and is definitely more mature than a lot of previous romancable companions. What you prefer could only exist within the confines of a newly created character. It certainly doesn't work for Cassandra.

[HiroVoid]

Iron Bull's a big muscle dude, Blackwall's old, and Solas is bald.  Each of these characters have something that makes them unusual from the norm LI's.  I personally enjoy this better than each LI being molded on the same stereotype of 'pretty boy' or 'rugged Aragorn-type'.  This goes the same for women with Cassandra where I'm glad she's different than the usual 'sexy wearing hardly any clothes', 'shuddering violet', etc.  There's nothing really wrong with those types, but I prefer having something different for a change.

[Zu Long]

Except for one problem. 

 

Why is it that only the straight male love interest that is being designed to go against the norm ?

 

Why is it that the straight female love interest feature a masculine strong bearded male ? That's a traditional trope that no one seems to have issue with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual male love interest is a very handsome, dashing, well dressed and well groomed male ? That is a traditional gay male stereotype that again, not many people have issues with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual female love interest is hot and tomboyish ? This is once, again, a lesbian female stereotype that people mostly get and don't mind.

 

Why is it for the other love interests, we can have traditional tropes and traditional stereotypes that no one takes issue with or do not seek to change except for the straight male one ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is being challenged but not the rest ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is viewed as politically incorrect or in need of redefinition but not the rest ? 

 

In some cases as we have seen with some posters on this topic, why is it that the declaration of preference for traditional stereotype of straight male love interest results in being shamed on, being dismissed whereas the stereotypes for other sexualities are celebrated ?

 

 

Because many of us current straight male players find her extremely attractive, and the people who don't seem to be a loud minority?

[Br3admax]

what.

First of all, "hot" is subjective, so I dunno what it's even doing there. I think Cassandra is hot. I'm more ambivalent about Sera. YMMV.

Although my self-esteem would like to thank you for describing the stereotypical lesbian as "hot".

They means what people would traditionally call feminine and attractive. Let's read between the lines and keep the lessons we learn in the Twilight Zone out of this. Though I do agree.

Secondly, "tomboyish"? What exactly about her is "tomboyish"? Her clothing style isn't overtly "male" in any way, shape, or form. "Personality" isn't going to get you anywhere. She wears plenty of makeup. Her hair, while messy and poorly cut, is still longer than most men wear theirs. I see a lot of things in Sera's design; I don't see "tomboy".

 

What? Plenty of males have longer hair than hers in Dragon Age, but I think they're talking more about her personality and I think cutting your hair with a knife is very far from the norm of women in most settings anywhere. 

[Finnn62]

Except for one problem. 

 

Why is it that only the straight male love interest that is being designed to go against the norm ?

 

Why is it that the straight female love interest feature a masculine strong bearded male ? That's a traditional trope that no one seems to have issue with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual male love interest is a very handsome, dashing, well dressed and well groomed male ? That is a traditional gay male stereotype that again, not many people have issues with. 

 

Why is it that the homosexual female love interest is hot and tomboyish ? This is once, again, a lesbian female stereotype that people mostly get and don't mind.

 

Why is it for the other love interests, we can have traditional tropes and traditional stereotypes that no one takes issue with or do not seek to change except for the straight male one ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is being challenged but not the rest ?

 

Why is it that the traditional stereotype of a straight male love interest is viewed as politically incorrect or in need of redefinition but not the rest ? 

 

In some cases as we have seen with some posters on this topic, why is it that the declaration of preference for traditional stereotype of straight male love interest results in being shamed on, being dismissed whereas the stereotypes for other sexualities are celebrated ?

 

It's not that I'm not bothered by the idea of the other stereotypes being followed, it's just that the characters themselves are so interesting... and I'm too focused on my happiness that the amazing Cassandra is available to a straight male dwarven inquisitor, to worry about why she's not a traditional stereotype romance, tbh   

[Black Jimmy]

Maybe they gave her massive guns and rock hard abs

<- Or this?

Tell me this wouldn't be an improvement.

 

Anyway, I'm hoping the changes aren't too drastic. Cass is smoking as is.

We have feminine (Leliana), Sexy, (Morrigan, Isabela) and Adorakable (Merril). Now let us have our tough as nails hardass superheroine.

[Aimi]

They means what people would traditionally call feminine and attractive. Let's read between the lines and keep the lessons we learn in the Twilight Zone out of this. Though I do agree.
What? Plenty of males have longer hair than hers in Dragon Age, but I think they're talking more about her personality and I think cutting your hair with a knife is very far from the norm of women in most settings anywhere.

So lemme get this straight: the complaint is that Sera is both stereotypically feminine and stereotypically not-feminine. Those things seem mutually exclusive to me. She must be pretty amazing to pull that off.

Leaving aside that bizarre logic error, though, I'm afraid I don't move in the same rarefied circles as you do, because these appeals to what "people" would "traditionally" think don't really chime with anything I know about people or traditions. If these opinions are so commonly held, it shouldn't be too hard for you to manage some specificity.

[AresKeith]

Maybe they gave her massive guns and rock hard abs

 

Yep, for all we know they gave her more muscle tone

[Merela]

It's not that I'm not bothered by the idea of the other stereotypes being followed, it's just that the characters themselves are so interesting... and I'm too focused on my happiness that the amazing Cassandra is available to a straight male dwarven inquisitor, to worry about why she's not a traditional stereotype romance, tbh   

 

M!Cadash x Cassandra fans united ! High-five !

 

<- Or this?

Tell me this wouldn't be an improvement.

I have to admit, that's one impressive moustache.

[Black Jimmy]

Yep, for all we know they gave her more muscle tone

I would not be unhappy with this

 

Oe hey, maybe they shave some hair off.

[Br3admax]

So lemme get this straight: the complaint is that Sera is both stereotypically feminine and stereotypically not-feminine. Those things seem mutually exclusive to me. She must be pretty amazing to pull that off.

Um....what?

Leaving aside that bizarre logic error, though, I'm afraid I don't move in the same rarefied circles as you do, because these appeals to what "people" would "traditionally" think don't really chime with anything I know about people or traditions. If these opinions are so commonly held, it shouldn't be too hard for you to manage some specificity.

WHAT?

[Zu Long]

 

Um....what?

WHAT?

 

 

Seemed pretty clear to me. Where did she lose you?

[GodBrandon]

They made her even hotter? I'm hype now

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Because many of us current straight male players find her extremely attractive, and the people who don't seem to be a loud minority?

 

If this statement that many straight male find a woman like Cassandra attractive, then there would be some form of result we can expect. The result being that there would be a lot more men in a relationship with women that look like Cassandra and Cassandra's phenotypical features (muscular, scarred, old, short haired) would be the standards of beauty.

 

However, this is not the case. This has never been the case and this will most likely not be the case. For the simple reason of biology.

 

Typically straight males prefer women with longer hair, body with more curves, younger because she makes a better mate and typically straight females prefer the protector and provider male, the tough and good looking guy who can defender her because he makers for a better mate.

 

Most straight humans instinctively follow this and this is why we see the sexual preferences that we do in the average straight human being of both sexes. 

 

As such the notion that this is the loud cry of a small minority is an intellectually dishonest one.

 

It certainly does not invalidate your choice to prefer the non-typical woman.

 

I myself like intelligent, rational women who are not fat, race, ethnicity, hair length, hair color, skin complexion be damned. Intelligence is not a quality that is a high priority for mate selection. However, I have the sense to know that my preference are not the norm and to not shame those who like women who look cute and pretty as a "vocal minority" or "man-child". 

 

Cheers. 

[Br3admax]

Seemed pretty clear to me. Where did she lose you?

Where the way someone keeps their hair somehow compared to the way their face naturally formed. The way Sera keeps her hair is a personality choice. The way Cassandra's jawline grows is something her genealogy chose. 

[Aimi]

Um....what?
WHAT?

...yeah, okay, this isn't going to get anywhere. I don't want to go down the quote war rabbit hole any more than you do, and judging by your last post we were both inferring things from the other's posts that weren't meant to be inferred. How about we go back to what I was originally talking about - Ishten's opinion. Just sticking to the basics, this is what I have to say on the topic:

1. It's perfectly fine for Ishten to have a personal definition of "attractive" that Cassandra doesn't live up to.
2. Plenty of people have opinions that differ from his about Cassandra's attractiveness. Unf.
3. Ishten's more general complaints about "stereotypical" attractiveness among Inquisition's love interests are unwarranted, and the insinuation of unfair treatment for heterosexual men is silly.

You want to object to anything in that?

[Zu Long]

If this statement that many straight male find a woman like Cassandra attractive, then there would be some form of result we can expect. The result being that there would be a lot more men in a relationship with women that look like Cassandra and Cassandra's phenotypical features (muscular, scarred, old, short haired) would be the standards of beauty.

 

However, this is not the case. This has never been the case and this will most likely not be the case. For the simple reason of biology.

 

Typically straight males prefer women with longer hair, body with more curves, younger because she makes a better mate and typically straight females prefer the protector and provider male, the tough and good looking guy who can defender her because he makers for a better mate.

 

Most straight humans instinctively follow this and this is why we see the sexual preferences that we do in the average straight human being of both sexes. 

 

As such the notion that this is the loud cry of a small minority is an intellectually dishonest one.

 

It certainly does not invalidate your choice to prefer the non-typical woman.

 

I myself like intelligent, rational women who are not fat, race, ethnicity, hair length, hair color, skin complexion be damned. Intelligence is not a quality that is a high priority for mate selection. However, I have the sense to know that my preference are not the norm and to not shame those who like women who look cute and pretty as a "vocal minority" or "man-child". 

 

Cheers. 

 

I base it on the number of fans, both here, and on other message boards as well as twitter who have expressed attraction to Cassandra as opposed who those who have expressed disappointment. The former outnumber the latter by a significant margin. That's a readily available fact. However, many of the people who dislike her appearance have, perhaps feeling the weight of the difference in numbers, or simply being extremely disappointed, posted in great quantity and insistence how unsatisfied they are.

 

This is not shaming, but rather pointing out what seems to me to be the obvious answer to your questions: the reason many of us don't complain about the fact that she is "non-traditional" is because we find her attractive anyway.

 

I apologize if you felt slighted, but I felt I was simply being direct and truthful. As far as calling you a man-child, I said no such thing.