34723 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

 

I love Cassandra's ending dialogue in this scene.

 

"Maybe you could ask him... Command him to finish it."

[The Baconer]

As for Cassandra, I think her path in rebuilding the Seekers fits her character quite well; she seems to believe the Seekers can be better, she's aware of the potential dangers that can transpire with too much power, and she doesn't want to hide behind secrets or clandestine knowledge like the previous incarnation of the organization did with the Rite. Given that the Seekers would likely be independent when Leliana becomes the new Divine, it may allow Cassandra to avoid having to make any concessions as well.

 

A lack of independence is certainly not to blame for the Seekers' failures.

 

 

In addition to changing the Chantry, it's kind of shocking to me that we can potentially oust the Wardens and Seekers. That sounds disastrous.

 

I mean, those specific organizations aren't exactly necessary, but their rites and mission purpose are.

 

Since their introduction to the series, the Seekers have only managed to be a toxic influence at every turn. While it is necessary to have someone who "watches the watchmen" so to speak, I see no reason to turn to the Seekers or a group trying to emulate them to do this. Better to use their book for kindling and start fresh.

[Br3admax]

The neutrality of the Ostwick Circle and the ties the Trevelyans have with the Chantry are certainly part of the backstory for the human main character, but it's still up to the player to decide how their character views magic and their upbringing. It's why you can even tell Cassandra you hated it when she asks you about your life in the Free Marches. 

In no way shape or form, does that address what I said. The poster I was commenting on, said they view magic as a curse because they were forced away from a family that:

 

A ) Would have told them to join the Chantry anyway(hence my point)

B ) Wouldn't make them leave their household because of magic, but because of the order in which their birth took place. 

 

My point being, no one would ever teach them to view magic as a curse because it forced them away from their family. Magic does not do that. You can hate the Free Marches all you want, but that's because of the Inquisitor's feelings, not what actually happened. The simple fact is, Lord/Lady Trevelyan went to the Conclave as a representative of Ostwick who do not shun magic and from all other dialogue, clearly had the choice of leaving the Circle or not. Josephine is actually surprised by the fact the mage Trevelyan would even bring magic up as an excuse as to why people don't accept them, and questions why they didn't attend noble parties. Certain things, are set in stone. 

[Milan92]

I suppose that could also explain why everyone still treats a mage trevelyan as a noble, instead of just a mage.

[Andres Hendrix]

Downplaying something to make it stand out more. I forget the term used to describe it, I just call it reverse-hyperbole.

It is called an oxymoron; it’s just a very bad use of one. Most oxymorons are idiomatic, thus they do not come off as “blatant” contradictions. You are the one asking for the aforementioned to use clear speech-- remember? XD  I just think you have this new(status quo)-left hang up, that all “beliefs must be respected” and you don’t want to go all the way and say you think someone’s belief is stupid. lol

If you are worried about clear language read Orwell. http://www.orwell.ru...english/e_polit

[azarhal]

 

I love Cassandra's ending dialogue in this scene.

 

"Maybe you could ask him... Command him to finish it."

 

I'm pretty sure the ending dialogue is "Pretend you don't know this about me".

[BioWareMod03]

Hi everyone. If you have personal disagreements please take them to pms and do not derail the thread with them. Thank you.

[Call Me Jord]

I hope Varric doesn't go too far away after leaving the Inquisition.

 

I'm going to need new romance novels to give to Cassandra as gifts.

 

Or I could make a Training Dummy out of Iron for her. Nothing says "I love you" more then making sure your battle-worn partner keeps up with her day to day sword training!

[o Ventus]

I'm pretty sure the ending dialogue is "Pretend you don't know this about me".

That's literally 1 line after what I typed.

[Merela]

I think...we need more art.

 

 

Source: http://fenharelshear...een-of-my-heart

 

 

Source: http://diredude.tumb...-you-so-perfect

 

 

Source: http://zyca.tumblr.c...ing-with-all-my

 

 

Source: http://chaotichero.t...st/104448516227

 

 

Source: http://fxreldenking....skicker-reading

 

Source: http://romanimp.tumb...ra-in-that-ball

 

 

Source: http://magetemplar.t...-love-cassandra

[LobselVith8]

In no way shape or form, does that address what I said. The poster I was commenting on, said they view magic as a curse because they were forced away from a family that:

 

A ) Would have told them to join the Chantry anyway(hence my point)

B ) Wouldn't make them leave their household because of magic, but because of the order in which their birth took place. 

 

Being separated from their family and placed in a Circle Tower is sufficient enough for someone to feel that their magical ability is a curse, as it's a term that's been used by some Andrastians in the previous games.

 

My point being, no one would ever teach them to view magic as a curse because it forced them away from their family. Magic does not do that. You can hate the Free Marches all you want, but that's because of the Inquisitor's feelings, not what actually happened. The simple fact is, Lord/Lady Trevelyan went to the Conclave as a representative of Ostwick who do not shun magic and from all other dialogue, clearly had the choice of leaving the Circle or not. Josephine is actually surprised by the fact the mage Trevelyan would even bring magic up as an excuse as to why people don't accept them, and questions why they didn't attend noble parties. Certain things, are set in stone. 

 

What happened to them can be why the player chooses that dialogue option when speaking with Cassandra; it's entirely up to the player to determine who their protagonist is, and their feelings on certain matters. It's not as though the player is mandated that they must choose that particular dialogue option for certain reasons, after all; there's enough intentional ambiguity that it leaves plenty of room for the player to decide their own reasoning.

 

I feel like you're trying to pigeonhole the protagonist into a particular set of views, which doesn't fit how Inquisition invites the player to come to their own opinions about these matters. It's why the main character has a myriad of options, including how to respond to Cassandra about her own choices, about the Chantry, and whether or not to rebuild the Seekers or become the new Divine.

 

I'm also not certain what Josephine's views have to do with how the human mage feels about their past, or being separated from their family and placed in a Circle Tower.

[The Baconer]

What do you think is toxic about them?

 

What isn't toxic about them? In their complacency they allowed events at Kirkwall to unfold in the manner they did. In their deception and hypocrisy they made a mess trying to control the cure for Tranquility and escalated the turmoil at the White Spire. They went rogue, bringing war to the very people they were supposed to protect. Their corruption almost dragged the Templar Order into ruin alongside their own fraudulent institution. The list of named Seekers that we know is literally longer than their list of accomplishments.

 

In my mind, their biggest pitfalls (which are just as likely to hamstring any "reformed" Seekers of Truth) is their lack of accountability, and that in practice they are just Templars working above their pay grade. The Seekers should be wielded as a scalpel, not a blunt instrument. Meatheads like Lambert will obviously have their uses, but they should never be near the office of Lord Seeker at any point.

[Call Me Jord]

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

-Disgusted noise intensifies-

[Andres Hendrix]

I hope Varric doesn't go too far away after leaving the Inquisition.

 

I'm going to need new romance novels to give to Cassandra as gifts.

 

Or I could make a Training Dummy out of Iron for her. Nothing says "I love you" more then making sure your battle-worn partner keeps up with her day to day sword training!

He probably goes back to Kirkwal. There is one operation at the war table that helps with the reconstruction efforts (mostly it involves getting rid of the red lyrium). If I had it my way, my Inquisitor would run off with Varric and live the life of an adventure with Hawke’n friends, instead of remaining in the Inquisition as a tool for the Divine’n chantry.
 

[Br3admax]

The Seekers could have gone through and cleared the Tower out from top to bottom and reform the Templar position there. It's definitely their fault it got so bad there. 

[LobselVith8]

A lack of independence is certainly not to blame for the Seekers' failures.

 

I was thinking more along the lines of Cassandra being able to mold the Seekers of Truth into a better organization without having to capitulate to anyone who thinks she should comprise the integrity of the new organization, similar to how Cassandra established the Inquisition into a neutral organization because she didn't agree with the directives of the Chantry at the time. In the event that Leliana becomes Divine and the mages create the College of Enchanters, an independent Seekers of Truth can focus on helping people.

 

What isn't toxic about them? In their complacency they allowed events at Kirkwall to unfold in the manner they did. In their deception and hypocrisy they made a mess trying to control the cure for Tranquility and escalated the turmoil at the White Spire. They went rogue, bringing war to the very people they were supposed to protect. Their corruption almost dragged the Templar Order into ruin alongside their own fraudulent institution. The list of named Seekers that we know is literally longer than their list of accomplishments.

 

In my mind, their biggest pitfalls (which are just as likely to hamstring any "reformed" Seekers of Truth) is their lack of accountability, and that in practice they are just Templars working above their pay grade. The Seekers should be wielded as a scalpel, not a blunt instrument. Meatheads like Lambert will obviously have their uses, but they should never be near the office of Lord Seeker at any point.

 

Cassandra does acknowledge the flaws with the previous organization, and is concerned about whether a new chapter might make the same mistakes, but it's possible a new incarnation of the Seekers could be quite different than the previous one that governed the Order of Templars and the Circles of Magi.

[Br3admax]

The Tower wasn't the main problem though. The whole city was a mess. Which, in turn, made the Templars the way they were.

 

The whole story/game was meant to frustrate everyone, I think.

Doesn't matter. The city weren't the ones fighting. They were the ones being killed. Kirkwall being an absolute shithole doesn't change that the problems that Meredith made happen, only happened because the Grand Cleric and the First Enchanter blocked her all the way, while the Divine sat and twiddled her thumbs. The Seekers could have gotten the Templars and the mages to work proper and didn't. They were in Kirkwall and allowed these things to happen. 

[The Baconer]

Kirkwall is the Seekers' fault? I'll you tell what I told Cassandra: That it was inevitable. She's being way too hard on herself. That place was a clusterf*ck. Planted on a hive of demonic activity.

 

We don't know that it was inevitable (well, really wasn't). Either way, their decision to do literally nothing when this is the exact stuff Seekers are supposed to address, especially when it mattered the most, condemns them.

 

 

Cassandra does acknowledge the flaws with the previous organization, and is concerned about whether a new chapter might make the same mistakes, but it's possible a new incarnation of the Seekers could be quite different than the previous one that governed the Order of Templars and the Circles of Magi.

 

I have no faith in even their base methodology, which is why I'd rather replace them than build a new incarnation.

[Br3admax]

Saying that they could have helped is one thing. Calling them the problem or toxic is another matter entirely. You said it yourself right there: Divine, Grand Cleric, First Enchanter, Meredith, etc.. The list goes on. There are more factors in this. The Seekers wouldn't magically fix anything, any moreso than Hawke or Thrask. It was a powderkeg.

Cassandra openly admits they were in Kirkwall. And did absolutely nothing. I will never excuse that. I may not disband the Seekers, but it's pretty obvious why someone would.