You want me to believe that the Seekers of Truth didn't know what was really going on in a local Chantry and Templar divison? You'll have a better chance of convincing me the FBI has no idea what's going on in a Federal Prison. She doesn't say they didn't find anything else out, she says that they found it justified. More importantly, later it become clear the Seekers were completely self-serving. It's really not that surprising.
Cassandra Pentaghast - Walking Tall
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, mars 26 2014 12:53
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#19152
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:27
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Funnily, even though I don't like him much, I think the one person who would agree with me is Solas. That place has enough history for him to notice.
I think this codex sums it up:
The records say Corypheus has been trapped below theVimmarks since the days of the Tevinter Imperium. Can it be a coincidence that the darkspawn besiege this area more fiercely than anywhere else on the surface of Thedas? Or that Kirkwall, the closest city, suffers from endless plagues of violence, lunacy, human sacrifice, and blood magic?
If one studies Kirkwall's public records, it becomes hard to deny that some malevolent force has long shaped its history. Could a darkspawn, even a powerful mage, have such influence even as it slumbers?
—From a weathered journal bearing the Grey Wardens' seal
#19153
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:28
LobselVith8
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I have no faith in even their base methodology, which is why I'd rather replace them than build a new incarnation.
It's possible that a new organization could simply take the name of the Seekers of Truth, while being altogether different; similar to how the new Inquisition is quite different than it's previous incarnation. Cassandra seems to want to discuss with the surviving members what direction the Seekers should take, after sharing the discoveries she uncovered with them. Unless Cassandra becomes the new Divine, the Seekers wouldn't even be part of the Chantry anymore; the new group might start out simply with Cassandra and the remaining Seekers fighting against dangerous spirits from the veil tears, and trying to help people in need after the chaos that was unleashed because of the Breach.
#19154
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:28
The Baconer
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Well, I'll just say that's harsh. Condemned.
Why is it harsh? Thedas can't afford this type of behavior when so many lives are at stake. Their further performance in the war killed off whatever second chance I would have been willing to give them.
- Andres Hendrix aime ceci
#19155
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:28
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You want me to believe that the Seekers of Truth didn't know what was really going on in a local Chantry and Templar divison? You'll have a better chance of convincing me the FBI has no idea what's going on in a Federal Prison. She doesn't say they didn't find anything else out, she says that they found it justified. More importantly, later it become clear the Seekers were completely self-serving. It's really not that surprising.
They couldn't find out about a lot of what was going on, because it's demonic and underground in nature. See my post above. The whole place was crazy. It took Hawke to explore deeply to find out any of it.
#19156
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:33
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Why is it harsh? Thedas can't afford this type of behavior when so many lives are at stake. Their further performance in the war killed off whatever second chance I would have been willing to give them.
I already said my reasons why it's harsh. There are a lot more culprits. And more uncontrollable forces affecting things.
Now it's all the Seekers' fault apparently.
I can fault them for not being as strong an investigative arm as they espouse, but that isn't a reason for me to condemn. It's a reason to improve. There's a difference between making mistakes and doing something so disgustingly horrible as to be condemned.
#19157
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:36
The Baconer
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I already said my reasons why it's harsh. There are a lot more culprits. And more uncontrollable forces affecting things.
Which is a reason to begin inquiry. Scouting, investigation, questioning and the like. They had almost a decade to try anything at all but they chose to sit on their hands.
#19158
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:40
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Which is a reason to begin inquiry. Scouting, investigation, questioning and the like. They had almost a decade to try anything at all but they chose to sit on their hands.
So you value their basic obligation, right?
Then you don't condemn them as much as you think. It sounds like you want them to do their job well.
Which is why being so harsh works against that. To me anyways. People and systems fail. I don't need to throw them out because of it. You learn from experience. I think that's the only good thing about this Inquisition. It's an opportunity to review and learn. Not to just throw stuff away.
#19159
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 09:57
Shadow Quickpaw
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And having a circle tower in the middle of a massive Tevinter blood sygil wasn't helping matters at all. 
#19160
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 10:11
The Baconer
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So you value their basic obligation, right?
Then you don't condemn them as much as you think. It sounds like you want them to do their job well.
I'd like to see an example of them doing their jobs at all, let alone well.
Which is why being so harsh works against that. To me anyways. People and systems fail. I don't need to throw them out because of it. You learn from experience. I think that's the only good thing about this Inquisition. It's an opportunity to review and learn. Not to just throw stuff away.
Why? Their basic mandate does not actually need Seekers to be fulfilled. They consistently sabotaged themselves and the system they were supposed to maintain, and as a consequence, whatever power they had is shattered, their credibility soiled, and their remaining handful of members scattered about Thedas with no ties or organization. There's honestly little to even throw away, as they've already buried themselves.
Because of this rather extensive learning experience, I've decided to not have Cassandra exert herself putting all the pieces back together with gum and tape. We have the power and resources to build something new, to do the work the Seekers endeavored to do, and do it better. The previous order's legacy and shame will serve as a reminder not to repeat their failures.
#19161
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 10:25
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I'd like to see an example of them doing their jobs at all, let alone well.
Why? Their basic mandate does not actually need Seekers to be fulfilled. They consistently sabotaged themselves and the system they were supposed to maintain, and as a consequence, whatever power they had is shattered, their credibility soiled, and their remaining handful of members scattered about Thedas with no ties or organization. There's honestly little to even throw away, as they've already buried themselves.
Because of this rather extensive learning experience, I've decided to not have Cassandra exert herself putting all the pieces back together with gum and tape. We have the power and resources to build something new, to do the work the Seekers endeavored to do, and do it better. The previous order's legacy and shame will serve as a reminder not to repeat their failures.
Consistently?
This is the same nonsense people level at the Chantry as a whole. They forget that they only start in the middle of the Dragon Age. And not appreciate that Chantry issues have been going on for a thousand years. Suddenly we come on the scene and everything is "consistently" the worst thing ever.
If you want to get rid of everything, fine.. knock yourself out. It's your game. But don't try to say it's always been a problem. Because if it wasn't working pretty well, it would have fallen apart a lot sooner. And if you truly do think it never worked well, then what does that say about your own Inquisition, when the systems set in place by the first one was apparently broken to begin with. Now you're the special snowflake with the right of it and all the answers in the world. Right.
I suggest just sticking with simple hate. You don't have to justify it. Not to me anyways 
#19162
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:09
MisterJB
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That romance scene, just... 
"Alright, Cass. You want corny, you'll have more corniness than you could possibly take."
- Andres Hendrix et Steelcan aiment ceci
#19163
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:14
Andres Hendrix
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That romance scene, just...
"Alright, Cass. You want corny, you'll have more corniness than you could possibly take."
I liked the second poem (the one she reads), it kind of reminded me of the metaphysical poets like John Donne.
- rda aime ceci
#19164
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:22
Br3admax
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They couldn't find out about a lot of what was going on, because it's demonic and underground in nature. See my post above. The whole place was crazy. It took Hawke to explore deeply to find out any of it.
Absolutely none of that has anything to do with investigating the Tower, their jurisdiction. Again, the fact that Kirkwall is awful has nothing to do with letting the Chantry collapse on itself there.
- Shadow Fox et blahblahblah aiment ceci
#19165
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:25
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Absolutely none of that has anything to do with investigating the Tower, their jurisdiction. Again, the fact that Kirkwall is awful has nothing to do with letting the Chantry collapse on itself there.
Kirkwall's situation puts the Templars on extra edge. There's a reason why Meredith sees demons and blood magic everywhere. Because she's partly right. And thus, her policies are defined accordingly.
Other than that, I find it a little unfortunate that we as players never really see the Circle much. I don't know how to comment on all of it. So I keep most of my focus on the city.
#19167
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:31
o Ventus
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I liked the second poem (the one she reads), it kind of reminded me of the metaphysical poets like John Donne.
Metaphysical? The poem that Cassandra reads is just a fancy way to describe a good f**k. At least, that's how it sounds.
- Obvious_Shining aime ceci
#19168
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:32
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Metaphysical? The poem that Cassandra reads is just a fancy way to describe a good f**k. At least, that's how it sounds.
As did the Romance poets (maybe Donne the least of them though.. he wasn't technically Romance, I think).
#19169
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:34
o Ventus
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As did the Romance poets (maybe Donne the least of them though.. he wasn't technically Romance, I think).
I wouldn't call them metaphysical either. At least, not those specific poems about f**king.
#19170
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Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:36
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I wouldn't call them metaphysical either. At least, not those specific poems about f**king.
I prefer the word erotic.
F*cking is so pedestrian.
#19171
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:37
The Baconer
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Consistently?
This is the same nonsense people level at the Chantry as a whole. They forget that they only start in the middle of the Dragon Age. And not appreciate that Chantry issues have been going on for a thousand years. Suddenly we come on the scene and everything is "consistently" the worst thing ever.
I'm going by what Cassandra tells us after reading the Big Book of Seekers, not just the failings we've been able to see personally.
If you want to get rid of everything, fine.. knock yourself out.
I suggest letting a single institution wither on the vine. How you're interpreting "GET RID OF EVERYTHING" from that, I do not know.
Because if it wasn't working pretty well, it would have fallen apart a lot sooner.
That doesn't really mean anything, though. Was it because of the Seekers that the Circle system worked for so long? I mean, the original Imperium lasted a little longer than the Chantry has before it collapsed, but people aren't going to cite its length as a reason why Tevinter's society is admirable to worthy of replicating. Most people, anyway.
And if you truly do think it never worked well, then what does that say about your own Inquisition, when the systems set in place by the first one was apparently broken to begin with.
Well, nothing if we're going to ignore context.
#19172
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:39
Milan92
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You could definitely see her getting turned on by the poem she read.
- Obvious_Shining aime ceci
#19173
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:45
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I suggest letting a single institution wither on the vine. How you're interpreting "GET RID OF EVERYTHING" from that, I do not know.
Because it's the same argument I see when talking with people who have issues with the Chantry as a whole. All idealists. No appreciation for the concept of "work in progress". Where things must reach a perfect expression, else it gets thrown out entirely.
It's why I hate the Qunari too. It's just the same idealism under a different guise. All emphasis on how things should "be", and not what they can become.
I know when I'm about to run into a brick wall, so I just call it what it is. We're not going to get anywhere with each other, I think. But I don't wish to take away your fun.. just to be clear. Have at it.
#19174
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:48
Andres Hendrix
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Metaphysical? The poem that Cassandra reads is just a fancy way to describe a good f**k. At least, that's how it sounds.
You have got to be kidding me...Learn what metaphyical poetry was, and who Donne was before you post! XD lol
http://www.newyorker...-donnes-erotica
http://www.poetryfou...org/poem/173355
#19175
Posté 06 décembre 2014 - 11:54
Xilizhra
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lol, You really need to change your name to NaCl. You so salty for absolutely no reason.
Salty? Hardly. I got what I wanted.
