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[The Baconer]

I've never seen the scene with a dwarf before, because dwarves, but was he standing on the love stool before the smooch of victory? AGAIN!?

 

How else can a poor Dwarf whisper sweet nothings directly into her ear, without the use of strategically placed boxes?

 

 

You're condemning a relatively benign thousand year old group, because of Kirkwall. And I call you an idealist.

 

Kirkwall and the mess they made of the war (costing who knows how many lives), and their dishonesty, and their corruption, and the possible ruin of the Templar Order, but who's counting?

[Xilizhra]

Kirkwall and the mess they made of the war (costing who knows how many lives), and their dishonesty, and their corruption, and the possible ruin of the Templar Order, but who's counting?

Hey, they deserve thanks for that last one.

[raging_monkey]

This thread always so livly

[BellPeppers&Beef023]

Just finished my first game. Given the limited options i was always going to favour Cassandra as my inquisitor's LI. Found her an amazing companion, though walking the fine line with my Mage Inquisitor who wasn't completely happy with Chantry made for some interesting work. Romance content was ok(wasn't as amazing as my Hawke's experience with Isabela in DA2), seemed a bit spread thin for my liking.

 

Some people have complained that the romance content was a little bare-bones after poetry-reading. Personally, I would have preferred if the subsequent cutscene conversations (eg. on the battlements after the elven temple) would automatically take on a different tone if Cassandra is romanced (I assume that everyone will get scene on the battlements whether Cass was romanced or not). Choosing any option other than the "heart" option during that scene leads to a very platonic response, which is a little wierd.

[Xilizhra]

Fair enough. I already said my views here. I'll repeat them. You don't seem to understand. I LIKED Lambert. I find him complicated and put in an odd situation, much like Loghain. You probably should have cut off the conversation with me, if you felt that strongly about it. 

 

And again, thinking he's so bad is another reason I call you an idealist. You're looking for a pretty high standard for Seekers. When to me, Lambert was relatively moderate.

Cole heard his thoughts. Lambert is nothing more than a bigoted vindictive power-hungry *******.

[Xilizhra]

His best friend was a magister. The Black Divine. That tells me a lot about him, and how he once thought.. and how he became who he is.

He had a history that made him as bad as he was. That doesn't make him any less bad.

 

 

He's no cardboard cutout villain. And if he is, then this setting is getting sillier by the minute. I'd rather not think so.

No one in real life is a cardboard cutout villain either, and yet many, many people are deeply evil. Lambert was like one of them, and I don't think anyone is better-qualified to determine that than Cole.

[raging_monkey]

He had a history that made him as bad as he was. That doesn't make him any less bad.
 
 

No one in real life is a cardboard cutout villain either, and yet many, many people are deeply evil. Lambert was like one of them, and I don't think anyone is better-qualified to determine that than Cole.

agreed

[Dr. Doctor]

I've never seen the scene with a dwarf before, because dwarves, but was he standing on the love stool before the smooch of victory? AGAIN!?

I can't remember but I think that she bends down a little to kiss Cadash, similar to the animations used in the "let's spend time together" scene.

Of course I maintain that Cole follows the Inquisitor around with a stool for when he needs to be a bit taller.

[Xilizhra]

Cole doesn't understand basic things, like when to perform Euthanasia. And I don't think he knows what to make of Templars  and who they serve (and by extension, doesn't understand Lambert).

He figured out the euthanasia thing. And what he knew about Lambert was that he enjoyed hurting people, didn't acknowledge mages as people, and wanted to overthrow the Chantry and establish a Seeker dictatorship. I think that's enough to show him as having become as twisted and evil as any of the magisters he despised.

 

 

As for Lambert's history, I'm at a loss. What are you talking about? He was just a Templar, who had moderate views on mages, and a best friend who was a mage. He became disillusioned when that best friend jumped into the social-darwinian fabric of Tevinter, and embraced blood magic.

And thus he went down his own dark path.

[Br3admax]

He figured out the euthanasia thing. And what he knew about Lambert was that he enjoyed hurting people, didn't acknowledge mages as people, and wanted to overthrow the Chantry and establish a Seeker dictatorship. I think that's enough to show him as having become as twisted and evil as any of the magisters he despised.

 

 

And thus he went down his own dark path.

I don't think you actually read the book. 

[Xilizhra]

I don't think you actually read the book. 

I did read the book, but my memory's imperfect. Which is why that's not taken from the book--where Lambert's personal perspective was nearly always absent--but from the game. Which I think is higher canon.

[Xilizhra]

I didn't know he wanted to overthrow the Chantry. I thought he thought Justinia wanted to break the Accord. In his mind, he was responding to her. Not the other way around. If he cared about power so much, he would have already planted seeds and instigated his own movement before. Everything he did however was reactionary and emotional. However flawed.

It was speculated by Wynne that Lambert may have been behind Justinia's assassination attempt, and I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, what I'm going by is what was confirmed in-game.

[The Baconer]

Fair enough. I already said my views here. I'll repeat them. You don't seem to understand. I LIKED Lambert. I find him complicated and put in an odd situation, much like Loghain. You probably should have cut off the conversation with me, if you felt that strongly about it. 

 

And again, thinking he's so bad is another reason I call you an idealist. You're looking for a pretty high standard for Seekers. When to me, Lambert was relatively moderate.

 

The problems with the Seekers go far beyond Lambert, though, the fact that he was acting Lord Seeker is already a red flag. His basic goals and his reaction to the conclave are understandable (even respectable), but his attempts to contain the cure for Tranquility were nonsensical, indecisive. He had a one-track mind and approach to problems, something that does not lend itself to the idea of the Seekers at all. Possibly the worst of all was his prideful ambition and desire to make the Chantry an extension of Seekers' will, something confirmed both in his own POV and by Cole in DA:I.

[Br3admax]

 

It's not absent. He has monologues and everything.

The game also isn't a "higher canon" than the books. They all exist in DA and operate under the same principles. 

[Xilizhra]

That sounds kind of ridiculous to me.  Although not entirely impossible. I just don't understand why he would do that. He played the part of an investigator.. not some mastermind. He was minding his business until Wynne's tranquil plan came along. Then he went crazy.

I think that's what led him to want to overthrow the Chantry; he thought it couldn't maintain control well enough. Also, of course, the Tranquil cure threatened to reveal the dirty secret of the Seekers.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Not really when you factor in a certain Ancient Darkspawn being able to influence/control them.

Considering what happnes in the ending if you exile them, I'd say exiling them will doom Thedas if another blight occurs. Hope you spared the architect.

[The Baconer]

Finally, we can agree on things. Yes, he had a one track mind. Yes, he was counterproductive. 

 

All I'm just disagreeing on is that the Seekers don't need to be canned for it. I accept these flaws and wish to work past them. I meant no offense when calling you an idealist.. it's just that your approach speaks of something with an eye for less flaws. I don't understand it.. and I know I can't argue with it.

 

My strong feelings regarding the Seekers is not so much borne from their flaws as it is from them accomplishing literally the opposite of what their order was created to do, bringing much harm to the people of Thedas and the men under their command. For a force with such a claim to prestige as the Seekers, and a task so important, I find their actions unacceptable.

 

Even if I were of the mind to reform them, I would want them to barely resemble what they were before.