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My strong feelings regarding the Seekers is not so much borne from their flaws as it is from them accomplishing literally the opposite of what their order was created to do, bringing much harm to the people of Thedas and the men under their command.
Even if I were of the mind to reform them, I would want them to barely resemble what they were before.
That's essentially what Cassandra's intends, being completely open with other seekers rather than keeping secrets from them.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
My strong feelings regarding the Seekers is not so much borne from their flaws as it is from them accomplishing literally the opposite of what their order was created to do, bringing much harm to the people of Thedas and the men under their command. For a force with such a claim to prestige as the Seekers, and a task so important, I find their actions unacceptable.
Even if I were of the mind to reform them, I would want them to barely resemble what they were before.
So you still think the task is important.. but your solution is to rid us of them. I'd understand if you didn't think it was important.
This is much like the issue I have with getting rid of Wardens.
That's essentially what Cassandra's intends, being completely open with other seekers rather than keeping secrets from them.
Even Cassandra, bless her heart, doesn't really have a truly conclusive answer as to how she would fix them. It further turned me off of the idea, in fact.
So you still think the task is important.. but your solution is to rid us of them. I'd understand if you didn't think it was important.
At its core, their mandate is to preserve the order and balance of the Circle system for the safety of Thedas. It means enforcing a system that works to the overall benefit of both the Mages and the Templars, even if it means acting in spite of the objections of both groups. This is a task that by no means requires the specific ideology or tenants of the Seekers as they are. They are not like the Wardens, who are objectively vital in ending Blights (which is why I would never banish them).
Guest_StreetMagic_*
At its core, their mandate is to preserve the order and balance of the Circle system for the safety of Thedas. It means enforcing a system that works to the overall benefit of both the Mages and the Templars, even if it means acting in spite of the objections of both groups. This is a task that by no means requires the specific ideology or tenants of the Seekers as they are. They are not like the Wardens, who are objectively vital in ending Blights (which is why I would never banish them).
I think a group that is unable to be mind controlled, and who can weaken and instill fear in mages/templars alike is pretty important to that task. Better than just some other random group that tries to do that.. it'd be all bark and no bite. The Seekers have the bite.
The only reason I see for getting rid of Seekers is you don't care to control the factions at all. If you want total mage freedom and rampant mage hunters,like before the first Inquisition. Which would be the opposite of restoring order... sooner or later.
I think a group that is unable to be mind controlled, and who can weaken and instill fear in mages/templars alike is pretty important to that task. Better than just some other random group that tries to do that.. it'd be all bark and no bite. The Seekers have the bite.
The skills are definitely useful (in fact, a practice I would like to see studied more extensively), but hardly mandatory. Their resistance to mind control meant little in the end, as the Seekers were undone by plain ol' human corruption, ambition, and insanity. Most likely the product of too much authority with no accountability.
The only reason I see for getting rid of Seekers is you don't care to control the factions at all. If you want total mage freedom and rampant mage hunters,like before the first Inquisition. Which would be the opposite of restoring order... sooner or later.
I see it is as the opposite. That there were really no checks and balances limiting the Seekers themselves allowed them to hijack the Templars and further destabilize the situation. Having someone in the middle of the mages and the Templars (which the Seekers had kind of fallen out of anyway) is a necessity, but at the same time it defeats the purpose if they represent a volatile element themselves.
Erotica was a recurring theme in the metaphysical poetry of Donne. If you know his work, why would you say otherwise? It does not make sense. Read his major works, like "The Ecstasy". He tied in his supposed love of a higher power, with erotic passions. I’m not talking “down” to you, it’s just ludicrous that someone would claim to know Donne’s work, and what metaphysical poetry is, and not know how the erotic was a prevailing theme in those works. Those two links are evidence, so you can add to your understanding of Donne, and metaphysical poetry.
What I said was a simple comment in passing, you made this into a thing by saying “Metaphysical? The poem that Cassandra reads is just a fancy way to describe a good f**k. At least, that's how it sounds.” Which is actually hilarious taking into account what Donne wrote, and what all the literay theorists wrote of Donne’s erotic poetry thereafter. lol
I never said nor implied that it wasn't a big part of Donne. I never even said anything about Donne until you brought him up after my initial post. I also didn't say I know Donne's work, I said I know OF his work, in that I've discussed him in English classes and dabbled over some of his work. By no means whatsoever does mean I have a deep and intimate knowledge of his poetry, themes, and subtext. And you say that my phrases aren't idiomatic, when you insist on misinterpreting every single thing I say and completely twisting the point of my posts into something else entirely. Seriously, are you doing this sh*t on purpose or are you legitimately unable to take messages at anything but their literal extremes?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
The skills are definitely useful (in fact, a practice I would like to see studied more extensively), but hardly mandatory. Their resistance to mind control meant little in the end, as the Seekers were undone by plain ol' human corruption, ambition, and insanity. Most likely the product of too much authority with no accountability.
And think of how many times it vindicated them. Like I said earlier, we have a thousand years of unknown history here. It's hard to wrap one's head around, but their ways obviously worked out well enough. It might be more crucial than you realize. Human corruption can be combatted any day, but you couldn't go back on a decision like ridding the Seekers. Not easily and/or if the writers insist on it at least.
I see it is as the opposite. That there were really no checks and balances limiting the Seekers themselves allowed them to hijack the Templars and further destabilize the situation. Having someone in the middle of the mages and the Templars (which the Seekers had kind of fallen out of anyway) is a necessity, but at the same time it defeats the purpose if they represent a volatile element themselves.
I understand. I haven't figured out the problem myself (checks and balances). I've been thinking about it even before the game came out. Cassandra hasn't quite figured it out either (or rather, Gaider doesn't want to get into it yet). All I know is that it's a problem to be solved. I'd rather look at it like a scientific or math problem. Sit around long enough or hash it out with the right people, and you can come up with solutions. Ridding myself of them however is not my idea of problem solving.
And think of how many times it vindicated them. Like I said earlier, we have a thousand years of unknown history here. It's hard to wrap one's head around, but their ways obviously worked out well enough. It might be more crucial than you realize. Human corruption can be combatted any day, but you couldn't go back on a decision like ridding the Seekers. Not easily and/or if the writers insist on it at least.
I can't, though, there's no records or histories available to us, thus no context. Whether or not this is due to their secrecy or a lack of events as significant as the most recent one is anyone's guess. All we know is Cassandra stating that at some point, they turned from their original endeavor, and during the most recent crisis where their skills and judgement were needed the most, they instead chose to help set Thedas ablaze.
I understand. I haven't figured out the problem myself (checks and balances). I've been thinking about it even before the game came out. Cassandra hasn't quite figured it out either (or rather, Gaider doesn't want to get into it yet). All I know is that it's a problem to be solved. I'd rather look at it like a scientific or math problem. Sit around long enough or hash it out with the right people, and you can come up with solutions. Ridding myself of them however is not my idea of problem solving.
From that perspective, my view is that the Seekers represent an additional problem to be worked through, rather than a definitive solution to the more important one. To make things worse, Cassandra herself doesn't even seem to be trying to solve the right problem.
She expresses a desire to do "the Maker's work, in truth" and yet can't decide what that even is when pressed. But the Seeker's aren't supposed to be about figuring out what the true nature of "Maker's work". Their raison d'etre should be simple: to hold the Circle together and ensure protection unto the Maker's believers, with the problem solving being based on how to best do this. If we can't even be on the same page when it comes to that, I'm afraid even Cassandra might not be able to really fix the Seekers.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
She expresses a desire to do "the Maker's work, in truth" and yet can't decide what that even is when pressed. But the Seeker's aren't supposed to be about figuring out what the true nature of "Maker's work". Their raison d'etre should be simple: to hold the Circle together and ensure protection unto the Maker's believers, with the problem solving being based on how to best do this. If we can't even be on the same page when it comes to that, I'm afraid even Cassandra might not be able to really fix the Seekers.
She knows what that is. She's a firm believer in Andraste and the Chant of Light. That's what she means by wanting to follow the Maker's path. It doesn't necessarily mean she'll equate that with the Chantry, but she'll always try to seek the principles which Andraste fought for. The "spirit of the law" if you will. Things like magic serving a better purpose, fighting against slavery, etc.. This is why I think she's always approving of helping common people with simple matters. She has a simple faith, founded on simple virtues, when it comes down to it.
edit: Of course, that doesn't address the complexity here.. I'm just saying she has a good heart and would probably lead it towards something productive.
Love it when you fluster Cass
OMFG, THIS KILLED ME!
She knows what that is. She's a firm believer in Andraste and the Chant of Light. That's what she means by wanting to follow the Maker's path. It doesn't necessarily mean she'll equate that with the Chantry, but she'll always try to seek the principles which Andraste fought for. The "spirit of the law" if you will. Things like magic serving a better purpose, fighting against slavery, etc.. This is why I think she's always approving of helping common people with simple matters. She has a simple faith, founded on simple virtues, when it comes down to it.
edit: Of course, that doesn't address the complexity here.. I'm just saying she has a good heart and would probably lead it towards something productive.
Yes, given her beliefs in general, but I still think the question regarding the Seekers shouldn't confound her as it does. Faith can be useful, and beneficial in many respects, but the Seekers above all need to be concerned with earthly matters, as that is the nature of the work they must do. If I were to entertain reforming the Seekers with anywhere near the amount of power they had before, I'd need an answer more focused and practical... and less punny.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yes, given her beliefs in general, but I still think the question regarding the Seekers shouldn't confound her as it does. Faith can be useful, and beneficial in many respects, but the Seekers above all need to be concerned with earthly matters, as that is the nature of the work they must do. If I were to entertain reforming the Seekers with anywhere near the amount of power they had before, I'd need an answer more focused and practical... and less punny.
Fair enough. I'll tell you when I figure it out. I value the practical too.. and I'm glad we agree (seeing that I called you an idealist before. hah. Maybe you're not). But I do love her sense of faith.
Love it when you fluster Cass
This made my day 
Would have been even more lovely if Cullen is replaced with the Inquisitor xD
Fair enough. I'll tell you when I figure it out. I value the practical too.. and I'm glad we agree (seeing that I called you an idealist before. hah. Maybe you're not). But I do love her sense of faith.
For sure. I think it is a quality that makes her the best candidate for Divine, at least in my mind.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
For sure. I think it is a quality that makes her the best candidate for Divine, at least in my mind.
I'm not removed enough to appreciate the decision. She's a good romance. It's not the kind of thing I wish for my character. Or if I did, I'd rather they'd have just killed me in the Cory fight. Cue King Cailan. "Glorious!"
I hate the idea of my character's personal life ending like this though. Your girlfriend becomes the pope. Lame.
I'm not removed enough to appreciate the decision. She's a good romance. It's not the kind of thing I wish for my character. Or if I did, I'd rather they'd have just killed me in the Cory fight. Cue King Cailan. "Glorious!"
I hate the idea of my character's personal life ending like this though. Your girlfriend becomes the pope. Lame.
Sometimes I do wish Cassandra is not as good a character and romance option as she turns out to be, or if there is an equally awesome character and romance option such that I would be just as fulfilled for not pursuing Cass.
Guess its our turn to experience the pain of a King Alistair/not-human noble romance, eh?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Sometimes I do wish Cassandra is not as good a character and romance option as she turns out to be, or if there is an equally awesome character and romance option such that I would be just as fulfilled for not pursuing Cass.
Guess its our turn to experience the pain of a King Alistair/not-human romance, eh?
If it is our turn, then I'd rather it'd be violent and tragic.
I don't like losing from arbitrary political realities and manipulative tugging on morality and emotions. Just kill me and make it messy.
If it is our turn, then I'd rather it'd be violent and tragic.
I don't like losing from arbitrary political realities and manipulative tugging on morality and emotions. Just kill me and make it messy.
Unfortunately, after Haven, there was not one point where I feel my Inquisitor is threatened or in danger. And retroactively, I knew he was in no danger at Haven, because it was too early. Heck, he was even named Alec Trevelyan! Destined to die by Sean-Beanitis!
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Unfortunately, after Haven, there was not one point where I feel my Inquisitor is threatened or in danger. And retroactively, I knew he was in no danger at Haven, because it was too early. Heck, he was even named Alec Trevelyan! Destined to die by Sean-Beanitis!
It's not danger I fear. It's powerlessness. Player powerlessness, if you will. I don't want to be the victim of those kind of writer-controlled forces. But if I have to be, I'd rather it end quickly. What a Divine Cass kind of does is that it sort of makes me feel consistently powerless, if I put myself in the character's shoes. Death is powerlessness too, but final.
Leliana was confirmed not to leave the Hero of Ferelden. I find it extremely unlikely that Cassandra will leave the Inquisitor.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Leliana was confirmed not to leave the Hero of Ferelden. I find it extremely unlikely that Cassandra will leave the Inquisitor.
Leliana is different, however. I can't come to a conclusion from that. It'd be nice, but I don't know what to expect from Bioware anymore.
Leliana is different, however. I can't come to a conclusion from that. It'd be nice, but I don't know what to expect from Bioware anymore.
If by different, you mean amazing and better in every way...
Sorry. But I'm quite happy with what was done with Leliana in DAI.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
If by different, you mean amazing and better in every way...
Sorry. But I'm quite happy with what was done with Leliana in DAI.
Uh.. not what I meant.
I'm glad you're happy, but I don't know why any of this matters. I only meant she's a different person, with her own way of doing things.
Uh.. not what I meant.
I'm glad you're happy, but I don't know why any of this matters. I only meant she's a different person, with her own way of doing things.
Sorry, that was just me babbling.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Sorry, that was just me babbling.
No prob. I like them both. I don't want either to be Divine. I think their individual/personal lives are more interesting.
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