I kind of gathered.. but I know RobRam is a genuine fan of this idea.
Cassandra Pentaghast - Walking Tall
Débuté par
Maria Caliban
, mars 26 2014 12:53
-
Ce sujet est fermé
- Show only BioWare posts
Retour en haut
#21527
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:37
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
The problem with Leliana as Divine is this...
Her reforms are too radical to take root. Eirene was kind enough to post a wall 'o text (which are always informative and witty reads) about how radical reforms do more harm to their patron cause than good.
I want mages to be autonomous. I want mages to have as much freedom as they can possibly have in a place like Thedas. Leliana's ending provides that in the short term, but will inevitably backfire in the long term. Especially since this is Thedas we're talking about. If relative freedom for mages means sacrificing the relationship with Cassandra then so be it.
"We must look beyond ourselves..."
To readdress this..
In all honesty, I'd actually rather they kill my character than this. After ME3, they probably think we fear character death, but I don't. I fear meaninglessness and loneliness (which was the real crime in how Shepard went out).
Anyways... the Inquisitor just isn't all that interesting alone. I would lose all motivation if he continued in this state. Even the silent Warden had some interesting things about him, no matter where he was or what group he was with. Hawke was full of personality as well. The Inquisitor is lifeless without Cassandra. To some extent, without these companions in general. They did a great job at creating a team here.. but the protagonist... well... I don't really know who he is without the people who placed so much faith in him.
#21528
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:48
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
To readdress this..
In all honesty, I'd actually rather they kill my character than this. After ME3, they probably think we fear character death, but I don't. I fear meaninglessness and loneliness (which was the real crime in how Shepard went out).
Anyways... the Inquisitor just isn't all that interesting alone. I would lose all motivation if he continued in this state. Even the silent Warden had some interesting things about him, no matter where he was or what group he was with. Hawke was full of personality as well. The Inquisitor is lifeless without Cassandra. To some extent, without these companions in general. They did a great job at creating a team here.. but the protagonist... well... I don't really know who he is without the people who placed so much faith in him.
It's not that bad. I imagine they still have a romantic relationship. Just not sexual. They probably spend as much time as they can with each other. The Inquisitor often takes trips to the Grand Cathedral and Victoria to Skyhold.
When the minds and hearts of thousands of people hang in the balance shirking it for personal happiness or contentment would be wrong.
Tbh I imagine it was probably the same with her and Regalyan before the Conclave. She was a Seeker and he was a Knight-Enchanter (head canon). They had their own things going on, but spent time together when they could.
#21529
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:51
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
It's not that bad. I imagine they still have a romantic relationship. Just not sexual. They probably spend as much time as they can with each other. The Inquisitor often takes trips to the Grand Cathedral and Victoria to Skyhold.
When the minds and hearts of thousands of people hang in the balance shirking it for personal happiness or contentment would be wrong.
You're making too much out of it now, I think.
I see leading the Seekers as even more important than a Divine. This is where the real groundwork of mage issues will be handled. Especially important when the Seekers hinge on her, while with a Divine, there are always options.
But it is that bad. They didn't do a good job at making my character feel interesting in his own right (ymmv).
#21530
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:54
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
You're making too much out of it now, I think.
I see leading the Seekers as even more important than a Divine. Especially when the Seekers hinge on her, while with a Divine, there are always options.
But it is that bad. They didn't do a good job at making my character feel interesting in his own right (ymmv).
I don't. The Seekers tried to usurp the Chantry and is what lead to the war. I have no strong feelings about them either way. IMO they're only a necessity if Leliana's your canon ending.
#21531
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:55
Jaron Oberyn
-
- Members
- 6 755 messages
I don't. The Seekers tried to usurp the Chantry and is what lead to the war. I have no strong feelings about them either way. IMO they're only a necessity if Leliana's your canon ending.
How so? I've had mostly Leliana divine endings w/o seekers being rebuilt, and don't see any need for the seekers.
#21532
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:56
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
I don't. The Seekers tried to usurp the Chantry and is what lead to the war. I have no strong feelings about them either way. IMO they're only a necessity if Leliana's your canon ending.
I think there's blame to be spread.
Either way, it's a good idea... a great idea really.. but one that won't ever see it's potential without her. No one else will have her ideas to fix them..whatever they may be. I completely trust that she would make them awesome.
#21533
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:57
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
How so? I've had mostly Leliana divine endings w/o seekers being rebuilt, and don't see any need for the seekers.
Because sanctioned mages magically hold hands and singing disney numbers with the common rabble doesn't mean maleficar, demons, and dark magic stop existing. Since mages are free to do whatever they want there needs to be a contingency in place for when magic goes bad. More so than the other two endings.
- azarhal, Br3admax, Colonelkillabee et 1 autre aiment ceci
#21534
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 10:59
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
Because sanctioned mages magically hold hands and singing disney numbers with the common rabble doesn't mean maleficar, demons, and dark magic stop existing. Since mages are free to do whatever they want their needs to be a contingency in place when magic goes bad.
Not just when magic goes bad either.. but any kind of cults popping up (which are springboards for things like the Tevinter stuff we mentioned), as well as rampant mage hunters and ex-Templar types (if they don't become Seekers).
#21535
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:00
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
Not just when magic goes bad either.. but any kind of cults popping up (which are springboards for things like the Tevinter stuff we mentioned), as well as rampant mage hunters and ex-Templar types (if they don't become Seekers).
Yeah, I've said before that in Leliana's ending the Seekers end up essentially being the Witchers of the DA universe.
#21536
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:01
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
What's unnecessary are Templars. Circles could probably do well policing themselves. Having a stationary force stalking them is kind of lame. At least the Seekers are mobile and don't have that element of creepiness and getting off on being in power over people.
edit: Not to mention, the addiction..
#21537
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:09
Jaron Oberyn
-
- Members
- 6 755 messages
Because sanctioned mages magically hold hands and singing disney numbers with the common rabble doesn't mean maleficar, demons, and dark magic stop existing. Since mages are free to do whatever they want there needs to be a contingency in place for when magic goes bad. More so than the other two endings.
And there is, the mages govern themselves. It isn't as if people pretend these things don't exist now that they're free. There just isn't a 3rd party that will be handling these problems, it will be handled by people who know the issue best - mages.
#21538
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:10
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
And there is, the mages govern themselves. It isn't as if people pretend these things don't exist now that they're free. There just isn't a 3rd party that will be handling these problems, it will be handled by people who know the issue best - mages.
No one is governing mages (and/or magic) under Leliana's ending. No one is governing or helping normal people cope with it. No one is governing those who hate it either and would gladly kill these mages. Your only hope that it doesn't go belly up is the Seekers.
At least if I used some logic. I'm sure Bioware will make it work no matter what. 
"Magic was never a problem to begin with. It's all a big misunderstanding!"
#21539
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:16
Jaron Oberyn
-
- Members
- 6 755 messages
No one is governing mages (and/or magic) under Leliana's ending. No one is governing or helping normal people cope with it. No one is governing those who hate it either and would gladly kill these mages. Your only hope that it doesn't go belly up is the Seekers.
At least if I used some logic. I'm sure Bioware will make it work no matter what.
Mages are governing mages. Go look at the epilogue for Leliana.
#21540
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:18
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Guest_StreetMagic_*
-
- Guests
Mages are governing mages. Go look at the epilogue for Leliana.
Even that sounds problematic.
Mages govern mages in Tevinter too. It's ends up revolving around power level, and who has the biggest dick, instead of justice. And without the Chantry telling anyone what to do, why would all of those mages care about exercising caution anyways? They're not obligated to believe in any of it, now that they're free.
They don't need to be watched all the time, but someone should be able to come in and put a smackdown on even their most powerful mages, if necessary. And it shouldn't have to fall on lowly townsfolk and peasants to try it. Because they'll just get killed.
#21541
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 11:24
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
LOL, Jaron Oberyn, just stop. You're digging your own hole.
#21542
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 12:01
Br3admax
-
- Members
- 12 316 messages
Why should mages get to govern mages anyway? The kings and queens of Thedas should get to govern mages if the Chantry does not, and each of them should be able to rely on the Chantry for anti-magic soldiers. All this special-snowflakeness over mages makes my skin crawl. Have yet to see a single mage run society end well. It probably won't suddenly start now.
- azarhal aime ceci
#21543
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 02:05
azarhal
-
- Members
- 4 458 messages
The Magisterium is run by mages, not because of some coup or blood magic. It's because the nobility in Tevinter were always mages or had magical bloodlines. The same could be said for most of southern Thedas (whose nobility descend from Tevinter). Difference being in Tevinter it was more concentrated. So when 75% of your noble heirs are mages you get a nation like Tevinter.
In the south mages have had a 1,000 years of conditioning. This along with the fact that mages can't hold political power (with few exceptions) makes me confident that the south will never become another Tevinter.
Hessarian let a few mundanes join the "senate" in his post-Andraste's death reforms...and his reforms of the systems beside worshiping the Maker (the population was already embracing it, they were losing faith in the Old Gods before the First Blight even) and converting the temple of the Old Gods into Circles* were not as drastic as Leliana (beside all the cultist dying). Things less or more reverted back to where they were pre-Hessarian once he died beside the Old God worshiping part.
* Cassandra says that the Seekers created the Circles. Hessarian's ruling period included hunting heretics and cultist, I always had the impression he backed the first Inquisition.
What's unnecessary are Templars. Circles could probably do well policing themselves. Having a stationary force stalking them is kind of lame. At least the Seekers are mobile and don't have that element of creepiness and getting off on being in power over people.
edit: Not to mention, the addiction..
There are a war table missions that tells you why you need Templars, well warriors protecting mages, they don't need the lyrium: few mages are fighters, a few people can kill a few mages easily. Even Tevinter mages use normal fighter slaves as bodyguards.
#21544
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 02:38
Dr. Doctor
-
- Members
- 4 331 messages
The issue with Templars is that when you cultivate a culture that hates magic (it is dangerous though) you tend to get recruits who get it into their head that they're the only ones preventing a new Tevinter from popping up.
The Order is there to protect normal folk from magical weirdness, but they sometimes forget that they're supposed to do the same for the Circle mages as well.
There is a reason why they don't just kill every Mage they come across.
The Order is there to protect normal folk from magical weirdness, but they sometimes forget that they're supposed to do the same for the Circle mages as well.
There is a reason why they don't just kill every Mage they come across.
#21545
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 02:44
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
-
- Guests
The issue with Templars is that when you cultivate a culture that hates magic (it is dangerous though) you tend to get recruits who get it into their head that they're the only ones preventing a new Tevinter from popping up.
The Order is there to protect normal folk from magical weirdness, but they sometimes forget that they're supposed to do the same for the Circle mages as well.
There is a reason why they don't just kill every Mage they come across.
I mean yeah. This was the message of DA:I from the Templar perspective. Honestly though, Seekers and Templars are redundant. IMO abolish the Templars or at least 'Circle Templars' and go ferret out evil in the world. Let the sanctioned mages take care of their own with minor oversight. Things get out of hand then send in the Seekers to handle it.
I think these anti-magical Orders do more harm than good when they take extreme preventative measures.
#21546
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 03:40
Colonelkillabee
-
- Members
- 8 467 messages
Any mail variant armor for Cassandra is a coat.
Yea, and they suck.
#21547
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 04:26
Shadowwisher
-
- Members
- 44 messages
To each their own, i like the Mail variants for Cassandra
#21548
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 04:28
Cespar
-
- Members
- 2 954 messages
Because you're a dwarf. According to the Chantry, they're not even from the Maker. lol.
I'm sure she says it.. but that part above is actually true. Why you decided to make a Carta thug into a Chantry warrior, and follow a church who thinks you're a freak of nature, and who somehow taps into the magic of the Fade and lyrium over other dwarves is beyond me.
Whatever we were before, we're now the inquisition. But obviously the people that were in this thread at the beginning aren't here any more, and now the thread trolls people who don't follow their view, instead of just talking about Cassandra.
#21549
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 05:48
azarhal
-
- Members
- 4 458 messages
Whatever we were before, we're now the inquisition. But obviously the people that were in this thread at the beginning aren't here any more, and now the thread trolls people who don't follow their view, instead of just talking about Cassandra.
I was here at the beginning, so was Master Warder, Milan92 and StreetMagic...and probably others who don't post as often.
- Cespar et AWTEW aiment ceci
#21550
Posté 28 décembre 2014 - 05:50
Colonelkillabee
-
- Members
- 8 467 messages
To each their own, i like the Mail variants for Cassandra
No I mean stats wise, they suck. Which matters at the moment due to the difficulty I'm on at the beginning, and even a breeze will kick my ass, lol.
