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Liara hate


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#351
Barquiel

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By "archive," I was referring to the temple. And you are arguing that nothing, not the beacon, not the numerous artifacts stashed away in that temple, could have helped in any way before then. Even though we've spent weeks in the narrative hauling ass to the far ends of the galaxy in search of anything with Prothean writing on it to assist with the Crucible project. Keep telling yourself that.

I haven't "made up" anything. Shiala has the cipher, and is capable of sharing it with others. We had an opportunity to pick her up on Feros much, much earlier, but didn't (a very stupid move we, the player, are granted no control over). These are uncontested facts in the narrative. If EDI says that Shepard is the only one with the Cipher, the only one who could have helped, she's either wrong, pacifying the grief-stricken Shadow Broker with a comforting lie, or the writers ignored it - none of which erases this fact. It's no more complicated than that. Frankly, for all the field use he sees in my typical playthrough, I'd have liked the option to send Javik off to the Crucible (I like talking to the guy, but only one of my four Shepards could make biotic explosions happen and I didn't feel like dragging Liara everywhere I wasn't already forced to).

Activated or not, the Asari were clearly able to derive information from the beacon. Every single squadmate you bring to the temple makes this observation. You can't argue it would have been useless when they've already done quite well for themselves by making use of it. They didn't withhold it because it was useless; they withheld it because it would be a huge scandal to reveal they were hoarding Prothean tech to themselves, a practice they outlawed for everyone else. We can call out just about every politician in the game for their bullshit, so why are the Asari exempt? EmoShep whines that "Thessia fell, and That's On Me!"

Why does Shepard claim personal responsibility for the fall of Thessia (which fell before we even got there), potentially after callously brushing off the genocides of four other species for which (s)he actually was responsible? Why do we automatically agree with Tevos' whinging about how she "never thought this day would come" when Shepard has been screaming from the mountaintops about it since day one?

I'd recommend you read Crutch's post too.

There are not "numerous artifacts" in the temple. There is one hidden artifact ...the beacon. Maybe you should try to listen to the dialogue instead of spacebarring through conversations. And I've never claimed that there is no other useful date stored in the beacon. All advanced galactic civilizations are based on Prothean technology (to quote Nihlus). It's one of the first things we've learned in ME1 and it seems that the Asari got their prothean technology from the beacon in the temple. They shared some of the technology they found ("rather than hoard resources, the asari bartered freely"), but obviously not everything.

But let's assume for the moment that the prothean technology stored on Thessia is somehow more advanced than the prothean technology stored on Mars or Sur'kesh. Maybe the asari have "Bigger, better eezo cores" because of their beacon and didn't share it with the rest of the galaxy before the war. And? Asari scientists are working on the crucible since the coup attempt (so virtually the same time as anyone else). I guess they didn't tell everyone that they found the blueprints for their "Bigger, better eezo cores" in a prothean beacon, but they obviously shared every information that could help constructing the crucible before the matriarchs reveal the existence of the beacon to Tevos. Revealing the existence of the beacon wouldn't have changed everything, as much as the usual asari haters want to believe it. Vendetta said it was programmed to withhold the information about the Catalyst until the Crucible was built. The crucible is supposedly finished during the assault on cronos station. This doesn't leave any room for speculation.

EDI doesn't say Shepard is the only one with the Cipher. She says "You would have needed Shepard's cipher to comprehend it"...and that is true/confirmed by other characters. Yes, "You would have needed Shepard's or Shiala's cipher to comprehend it" would have been more accurate, but many players never met Shiala. I guess the writers didn't want to confuse new players (Shiala? Who?). And what is Javik supposed to do at the crucible construction site? Troll the crucible scientists? I don't have the DLC...but as far as I know, he's not exactly a scientist/engineer. The Crucible is not even of Prothean design.

Our squadmates are talking nonsense when they enter the temple. What do we know about the beacon at that time? We only know what Tevos told us about it (There is an artifact on my homeworld. It could be useful). Yes, the Asari were able to derive information from the beacon. But neither Shepard/our squadmates nor the player knows what exactly they found. The beacon was a boost, but it was not essential. People forget, for example, that the mars cache wasn't just a singular beacon a la Athame temple but an entire research base with ships. Humanity hit the motherlode of prothean finds compared to every other race. ("In 2148, prospectors exploring near the Deseado Crater found the sourceof these disturbances when they unearthed a subterranean Prothean ruin, containing a malfunctioning mass effect core and several starships,as well as refined element zero") But the asari are the most advanced race because they learned everything from a prothean beacon which they couldn't even properly activate? Right...

Yes, "we can call out just about every politician in the game for their bullshit", including Tevos before the Thessia mission. But we can't blame her after the Thessia mission...or the AY monastery if you play it after Priority:Thessia (Shep and Tevos talk a bit about the evacuation efforts on Thessia). That alone should tell you how stupid it would be to blame her for something she isn't even personally responsible for.


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#352
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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I rather like Eyez from Accounting

I think I win. God from Accounting


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#353
von uber

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It is strange how the salarians are smart to sit out the war, but the asari stupid for helping.
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#354
sH0tgUn jUliA

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It is strange how the salarians are smart to sit out the war, but the asari stupid for helping.

The toads were up to something, I'm telling you. They're the next game's villains. They're going to try and take over the galaxy with the uplifted Yahg. Everyone's fleets are decimated after the war. Palaven will be under the heel of the Salarian Dictatorship with Yahg patrolling the streets. As will Earth.



#355
TheOneTrueBioticGod

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It is strange how the salarians are smart to sit out the war, but the asari stupid for helping.

Well, Sur'Kesh never got hit. The Salarians played it well, never committed more than two fleets, developed and copied the advanced technology from the other races like the Normandy's stealth drive, and afterwards have the money to loan in rebuilding efforts and will effectively own the galaxy. 

Of course, the Asari aren't stupid for helping, but I don't remember anyone saying that. It's more nonsensical blabbering about how they are evil for not sharing the beacon, and less that. 



#356
Invisible Man

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invisible man from accounting... hmm, that's the kind of name thing that gets people arrested.
"are you kidding... his name is evil, you'll have your warrant by morning."

as for the asari issue. the asari government should have known what kind of information the temple was housing (maybe not the whole doomsday superweapon thing though), they've been pulling off information from the thing for millennia, and it's more than just a beacon, did you see how big that device was, the temple was built on top it, the statue was just covering the very tip of it. you can get a glimpse of it when the floor starts collapsing. if it was just a simple beacon a forklift could have moved it.

#357
sH0tgUn jUliA

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The one on Mars was every bit as big if not bigger because humans are special. I'd imagine the one near or on Palaven was every bit as big. The one the toads had was every bit as big too. It's just that they chose not to participate UNLESS you sabotaged the genophage cure which meant no Krogan support.



#358
Axdinosaurx

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Well if you didn't let Kaidan live or buy Javik she was the only biotic sqaudmate, probably why she got used so much.



#359
Farangbaa

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She got used so much because she's the best squadmate ;)



#360
von uber

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My point (which was badly put) was the different levels of critiscm that is involved between the two, even though the salarians cheerfully stand by and watch the galaxy burn (unless you neuter the krogan, how delightful).

#361
KaiserShep

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The one on Mars was every bit as big if not bigger because humans are special. I'd imagine the one near or on Palaven was every bit as big. The one the toads had was every bit as big too. It's just that they chose not to participate UNLESS you sabotaged the genophage cure which meant no Krogan support.

 

One of the weird problems with this choice is that there's always some krogan support, and only clan Urdnot seems to be subtracted. The plot requires that the turians agree to help, and that in turn requires some krogan. In a setting where consequence would be weighed more heavily, sabotaging the genophage with Wrex in charge would more than likely derail the entire war effort.



#362
AlanC9

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There have been RPGs where you can just screw up and fail the main plot. I don't know if that would work for Bio's plot-driven style, though.

#363
DuskWanderer

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I'll leave the racial secret of the asari to those talking about it, but I will say this about the Liara hate:

 

 

Here are the reasons I despise Liara.

 

1.) She's a cliche - Seriously, how many games have we had with characters like her. Naive virginal girl gets rescued by guy and wants to bang him. It's as old as time itself.

 

2.) She's boring - Going from the cliche, she plays her attitude dreadfully straight. She's a naive newcomer. She doesn't tell jokes or have snarky one-liners, she has all of the personality of a VI.

 

3.) She's everywhere - This is the problem in ME3, but seriously, everywhere I go, she's constantly there. I'm in my cabin, she's coming in. I had a rough night, Liara's coming in the door. It would have been one thing if she did that to a romanced Shepard. But I didn't, I never speak to her. So why am I doing it?

 

4.) We can only say nice things to her - We never get a chance to tell Liara to shut the hell up. At best, we can tell her that Javik is right about the asari being a group of frauds.

 

5.) She's forced as the best friend/romance - I never talked to Liara through the whole on ME1 (since I didn't know where she was on the ship). Come ME2, when I first meet her, I'm hugging her. WTF! Kaidan I gave a handshake too, and that's perfectly fine. I go to see her at her apartment, and I find out she's pulled armor off of my (possible) corpse, and framed it as a trophy. Again, to someone I never even spoke to

 

6.) The other characters got shafted - I can count on one hand the characters I liked less than Liara: Wrex, Kai Leng, Asari High Command. There were so many interesting folks in the ME universe, and all of them got shafted so I could listen to some crazy blue ***** constantly talk to me.

 

 

Those are my reasons, in a nutshell


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#364
KaiserShep

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There have been RPGs where you can just screw up and fail the main plot. I don't know if that would work for Bio's plot-driven style, though.

It would have been interesting to see the plot play out after losing both the krogan and the turian fleets entirely.



#365
Bob from Accounting

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Archetypes are not 'cliches.'

 

Cliche is really just a very lazy word when you don't have any better argument than 'It's been done before, therefore it's bad.'

 

Everything's been done before.



#366
MassivelyEffective0730

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Archetypes are not 'cliches.'

 

Cliche is really just a very lazy word when you don't have any better argument than 'It's been done before, therefore it's bad.'

 

Everything's been done before.

 

No, archetypes and cliches are not the same. Archetype was never mentioned. Why the hell are you pulling archetype out of nowhere? No one said anything about archetypes. Only you did.

 

Cliche's on the other hand are phrases and opinions that are overused and lack original thought. Liara is a cliche character. Please don't pretend to be some profound intellectual literary professor David. It's too much to believe to your already impossibly long list of accomplishments that make a Renaissance man like Da Vinci look like a bored grandfather who shops at a hobby store.


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#367
wolfhowwl

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Archetype, cliche, whatever you want to call it some things are just atrocious.

 

The Mass Effect trilogy has not one but two shy, nervous virgins who want Shepard's dick.

 

It's an embarrassment.



#368
Bob from Accounting

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It's certainly an embarrassment that you resort to childish nonsense such as that to deride a possible romance. Perhaps your friends on Facebook or whatnot are impressed with that. Maybe we can have a conversation about this topic when you learn to speak like an adult.



#369
MassivelyEffective0730

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It's certainly an embarrassment that you resort to childish nonsense such as that to deride a possible romance. Perhaps your friends on Facebook or whatnot are impressed with that. Maybe we can have a conversation about this topic when you learn to speak like an adult.

 

This post is comedic gold.

 

I'll speak like an adult: Liara and Tali are waifu's who's purpose (not to insult anyone who romances them) was to go: Ahhhh Shepard-kun, save me/my people and I'll make love to you! Aguuuu!


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#370
grey_wind

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It's certainly an embarrassment that you resort to childish nonsense such as that to deride a possible romance. Perhaps your friends on Facebook or whatnot are impressed with that. Maybe we can have a conversation about this topic when you learn to speak like an adult.

Pot meet kettle.



#371
Bob from Accounting

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Really? I wasn't aware I cherry picked romances and derided them pathetically with "character wants Shepard's ****"



#372
MassivelyEffective0730

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Really? I wasn't aware I cherry picked romances and derided them pathetically with "character wants Shepard's ****"

 

No, but you do cherry pick statements, strawman arguments, dismiss evidence and counter-claims, make naturalistic fallacies, hold your views to be inherently superior and infallible, outright lie about your qualifications, insult and belittle nearly every other person you've ever encountered, attack people for their opinions, and act like a general smug snake. 


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#373
DeinonSlayer

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Debating whether Barq's last post was worth responding to... food first.

#374
rekn2

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No, but you do cherry pick statements, strawman arguments, dismiss evidence and counter-claims, make naturalistic fallacies, hold your views to be inherently superior and infallible, outright lie about your qualifications, insult and belittle nearly every other person you've ever encountered, attack people for their opinions, and act like a general smug snake. 

neckbeard


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#375
DeinonSlayer

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This post is comedic gold.

I'll speak like an adult: Liara and Tali are waifu's who's purpose (not to insult anyone who romances them) was to go: Ahhhh Shepard-kun, save me/my people and I'll make love to you! Aguuuu!

No insult taken (though, frankly, Tali's passivity at the end of the Rannoch arc is very out-of-character; the leaked script was closer to the mark).

I never saw her that way so much, but it's funny because Javik pretty much says what you're saying: "It seems your Quarian is pleased with your choice. Perhaps she will reward you with a reproductive ritual."

Liara, particularly ME1's "I'm here in this bubble! I'm trapped! I need help!" followed by immediately trying to get in Shepard's pants was... *sigh* Stopping here.
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