FFS, when you can elaborately define your relationship with every other character (right down to telling Thane and Samara to stop whining about their problems) why does Shepard HAVE to feel affection for Liara?
What makes her so special that we can't be allowed to choose how to define our relationship with her?
Don't kid yourself. There are plenty of characters you haven't been able to define your relationship with much at all. It's always been that way. It will always be that way.
Don't kid yourself. There are plenty of characters you haven't been able to define your relationship with much at all. It's always been that way. It will always be that way.
Sure, I can agree with you there. But there's no other character Shepard shows overt affection to (well, at least not before ME3's autodialogue kicks in). So what makes Liara so special that Shep has to care for her?
WRONG!
It wasn't just the entire trilogy...
It was "all fiction."
Can I headcanon not having an awkwardly long, intimate hug with her in her office?You're perfectly free to...'head-canon,' as you say, Shepard speaking to Tali afterwards.
Wow. What a brilliant and eloquent argument.
But no. I'd hate to see a developer terrified of writing including that may include love, affection, friendship, trust, or any other emotion because players might not feel the same way. A terrible and tragic waste of narrative potential.
I'm glad to have characters to Liara moving the plot along whether the player 'likes' it or not. After all, nobody's putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play the game. We wouldn't get content such as well...Lair of the Shadow Broker otherwise.
Why thank you. I thought that was eloquent myself.
But I ask you. What part of "role playing game" don't you understand?
If this was a predefined character who loved Liara no matter what, and you had no dialogue options I'd have no problem with a scripted hug or scripted anything else. I did have a problem with a scripted flirt with Jacob that occurred when I just wanted to learn more about Jacob, but you wouldn't get that unless you played femShep in ME2. I didn't like it. I didn't have romantic aspirations for Jacob. So why should I expect other players to like being forced to have special feelings toward Liara? Shouldn't that be their choice? It's a role playing game.
My goodness gracious, make it a little more clearer, why don't you, that is all a case of petulant angst over Shepard being close to Liara when you don't like her. It isn't quite evident enough to me yet.
However much you might dislike it, it's no error in writing.
So why should I expect other players to like being forced to have special feelings toward Liara? Shouldn't that be their choice? It's a role playing game.
Oh, you certainly aren't obligated to like it. I would, however, expect a mature adult to be able to express their dislike without having to resort to sadly immature accusations of 'favoritism' and 'bad writing.'
But as to answer your question, it's really quite simple. Because characters are not equal.
My goodness gracious, make it a little more clearer, why don't you, that is all a case of petulant angst over Shepard being close to Liara when you don't like her. It isn't quite evident enough to me yet.
However much you might dislike it, it's no error in writing.
You couldn't be more wrong. I like Liara. I romanced Liara almost every time I played the game. It doesn't mean I think it's fair that others who didn't romance Liara have defacto feelings like a long lingering kiss with Liara forced on them, when they are clearly involved with another character in the story. This is NOT a movie. Such an action should cause an issue with their current love interest especially if he or she is there to witness it, don't you think? Especially if there was tongue involved.
My goodness gracious, make it a little more clearer, why don't you, that is all a case of petulant angst over Shepard being close to Liara when you don't like her. It isn't quite evident enough to me yet.
However much you might dislike it, it's no error in writing.
Buddy, you're the last person who should be talking about petulant angst....
The kiss is specific to those who romance her. Those who don't have the option to draw her into (another) hug when she starts crying, or say "it's just nerves."You couldn't be more wrong. I like Liara. I romanced Liara almost every time I played the game. It doesn't mean I think it's fair that others who didn't romance Liara have defacto feelings like a long lingering kiss with Liara forced on them, when they are clearly involved with another character in the story. This is NOT a movie. Such an action should cause an issue with their current love interest especially if he or she is there to witness it, don't you think? Especially if there was tongue involved.
You couldn't be more wrong. I like Liara. I romanced Liara almost every time I played the game. It doesn't mean I think it's fair that others who didn't romance Liara have defacto feelings like a long lingering kiss with Liara forced on them, when they are clearly involved with another character in the story. This is NOT a movie. Such an action should cause an issue with their current love interest especially if he or she is there to witness it, don't you think? Especially if there was tongue involved.
If the developers thought they could write a satisfying and meaningful story over a mandatory romance, sure it would.
Of course, it wouldn't be wise to have other love interests only to have them dropped. Thankfully, Shepard diving for Liara doesn't invalidate other love interests.
You know what's funny? We have these players on this forum who tend to be Renegade and dislike Liara. Might be a few Paragon players who dislike Liara, but they overwhelmingly seem to be Renegade. Anyway, these people preach that they're strong, that it's they right and destiny to 'dominate' the supposed weak.
And look how quickly that collapses. Look how quickly they curl into a ball and demand 'fairness.' You have to give me what Liara romances got because that's what's 'fair.' Because it just isn't right if things aren't fair. Things have got to be fair.
Isn't that funny? I think that's very funny.
You know what's funny? We have these players on this forum who tend to be Renegade and dislike Liara. Might be a few Paragon players who dislike Liara, but they overwhelmingly seem to be Renegade. Anyway, these people preach that they're strong, that it's they right and destiny to 'dominate' the supposed weak.
And look how quickly that collapses. Look how quickly they curl into a ball and demand 'fairness.' You have to give me what Liara romances got because that's what's 'fair.' Because it just isn't right it things aren't fair. Things have got to be fair.
Isn't that funny? I think that's very funny.
What on earth does alignment have to do with this? Also are you kidding me with the bolded?
Are you high?
Protip: Asking for a cooler option than LIARA! *hugs* or *longing tone* isn't asking for "fairness" it's asking for an alternative choice.
I'm merely pointing how that you would think Renegade players would have a different way of handling this than saying some variant of "Things have got to be fair!"
Do you really think that they'd brush it off just because Shepard has a nice little chat with them afterwards?
And what's with this strawman that emotional scenes with characters can't exist if there's a choice and it's not forced? That's ridiculous.
You know what's funny? We have these players on this forum who tend to be Renegade and dislike Liara. Might be a few Paragon players who dislike Liara, but they overwhelmingly seem to be Renegade. Anyway, these people preach that they're strong, that it's they right and destiny to 'dominate' the supposed weak.
And look how quickly that collapses. Look how quickly they curl into a ball and demand 'fairness.' You have to give me what Liara romances got because that's what's 'fair.' Because it just isn't right it things aren't fair. Things have got to be fair.
Isn't that funny? I think that's very funny.
That isn't true at all.
I don't expect to you know since you just joined this forum a month ago, but when ME3 came out there was a backlash against Liara. People were mad about the content distribution and the handling of her character. This was motivated by the feeling that their waifu/favorite character/whatever had lost out to Liara and the feeling of "forced friendship," alignment didn't have anything to do with it. It was likely that most of those people were Paragons because a large majority of the fanbase are Paragons.
Do you really think that they'd brush it off just because Shepard has a nice little chat with them afterwards?
And what's with this strawman that emotional scenes with characters can't exist if there's a choice and it's not forced? That's ridiculous.
If you're willing to shove any emotional storytelling to optional content and keep the 'main' story free of it, sure.
Unfortunately, there's a high price for that. Too high.
Do you really think that they'd brush it off just because Shepard has a nice little chat with them afterwards?
And what's with this strawman that emotional scenes with characters can't exist if there's a choice and it's not forced? That's ridiculous.
Don't you see that scene where Morrigan tells you you're like a sister to her can only exist if you're forced to be friends with Morrigan! There's no way in the game you can mutually despise each other. Somehow that makes the sister dialogue less significant. For..reasons.
And there's the False Dilemma fallacy. Not forcing an unromanced Shepard to automatically hug Liara in her office now means we're removing all emotion from the narrative?If you're willing to shove any emotional storytelling to optional content and keep the 'main' story free of it, sure.
Unfortunately, there's a high price for that. Too high.
And there's the False Dilemma fallacy. Not forcing an unromanced Shepard to automatically hug Liara in her office now means we're removing all emotion from the narrative?
Please. You think me to believe that such whining would stop at the removal of a hug? It wouldn't, and it hasn't. The very same people would be complaining about the existence of LotSB and Liara being a mandatory companion at all. And they do.
Well, BW could do like TW2 and give us one LI, plus the opportunity to mess around (people do this, and also can choose not to). One LI for male, and one LI for female. But then we have the players who want a SS relationship, so do we put that as a check box in the character creation screen and get that out of the way. Then they can script things to their heart's content around the check boxes. I guess they don't have to worry about stepping on anyone's toes this way.
In before Bob from Accounting says "that's just silly."
I don't expect to you know since you just joined this forum a month ago...
Heh...
You know what's funny? We have these players on this forum who tend to be Renegade and dislike Liara. Might be a few Paragon players who dislike Liara, but they overwhelmingly seem to be Renegade. Anyway, these people preach that they're strong, that it's they right and destiny to 'dominate' the supposed weak.
And look how quickly that collapses. Look how quickly they curl into a ball and demand 'fairness.' You have to give me what Liara romances got because that's what's 'fair.' Because it just isn't right if things aren't fair. Things have got to be fair.
Isn't that funny? I think that's very funny.
...
Who exactly are you attacking here? This doesn't seem to describe anyone.
Laughing at someone else's misfortune sounds pretty Renegade to me.
There are people who complain about any of the ME1 squad being present - nobody's saying complaints would vanish completely. Still, Liara wouldn't receive anywhere near the degree of criticism she presently gets if the most prominent issues were resolved; it'd probably be closer to the level of complaints directed at auto-friend Garrus (which is substantially less).Please. You think me to believe that such whining would stop at the removal of a hug? It wouldn't, and it hasn't. The very same people would be complaining about the existence of LotSB and Liara being a mandatory companion at all. And they do.
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