859 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Ready for the grind on why this is actually a terrible argument?

[DeinonSlayer]

And why is that?

The reasons have been outlined for you many, many times, David. You're perfectly free to disagree with them, but do us a favor and don't pretend you've never heard it before.

[Bob from Accounting]

There's always a chance someone might have some new reasons. Unlikely, but it's polite to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[von uber]

Removing the colours and randomising response positions would help, making people think rather than flagging 'CHOOSE BLUE!' 'CHOOSE RED!'.

[DeinonSlayer]

And to pre-empt David's stock answer to that, it worked in DA:O. People could inspect their options and choose the polite-respectful/whatever option if they so wished without it consistently appearing as the first choice in the list. You didn't see people whining on the boards that they couldn't sit back and let the game think for them.

And no, lack of a color-coded morality meter did not mean DA:O had no themes.

[Bob from Accounting]

Removing the colours and randomising response positions would help, making people think rather than flagging 'CHOOSE BLUE!' 'CHOOSE RED!'.

 

Tell me, do you 'not think' when faced with a choice? Do you immediately 'flag' red or blue?

[von uber]

And to pre-empt David's stock answer to that, it worked in DA:O. People could inspect their options and choose the polite-respectful/whatever option if they so wished without it consistently appearing as the first choice in the list. You didn't see people whining on the boards that they couldn't sit back and let the game think for them.

And no, lack of a color-coded morality meter did not mean DA:O had no themes.

 

Yes, I have noticed this as I play through. It certainly makes you read and consider more carefully rather than 'damn I need me some renegade points so I can keep old camera arse loyal'.

[Jorji Costava]

And to pre-empt David's stock answer to that, it worked in DA:O. People could inspect their options and choose the polite-respectful/whatever option if they so wished without it consistently appearing as the first choice in the list. You didn't see people whining on the boards that they couldn't sit back and let the game think for them.

And no, lack of a color-coded morality meter did not mean DA:O had no themes.

 

The problem was just as much that ME (especially ME2) actively encourage the player to reflexively choose one color or the other every time, since if you didn't do so, you were potentially closing off valuable dialogue options later on (this is part of why I'm reluctant to pile on players who do just choose the top of the wheel every time; they know the game is going to actually punish you for not doing so). ME3 tried to correct this, but by then it was too little too late, since what options are available to you at critical moments in ME3 (especially Rannoch) depends so much on whether or not you were able take certain to red or blue options in ME2.

 

EDIT: Fixed wording

[Barquiel]

*facepalm. You're actually going to try and justify this? With that?

Then please tell me how Shepard is supposed to reach the second squadmate? The Yahg threw the table in between Shepard and the other squad mate. There is no way, Shepard is going to dive backwards when Liara is closer. And if Shepard would have dove the other way, she would have been hit with the table too. Replay that scene and take a close look. A little common sense is your friend here...

[DeinonSlayer]

This exchange, for example. The "polite" option is the third one in the list.

(For context, this scene comes from the City Elf origin. The human pictured is a Grey Warden named Duncan. He arrived in the Alienage, a "ghetto" for elves that you live in, minutes after another group of humans (including the Arl (Governor's) son) was driven out. The Arl's son was knocked out by your cousin with a wine bottle for harassment (to put it lightly) of the local girls, whom he views as subhuman playthings. He comes back later, backed up by a squad of soldiers, with very ugly results.)

[SlottsMachine]

You know what's funny? We have these players on this forum who tend to be Renegade and dislike Liara. Might be a few Paragon players who dislike Liara, but they overwhelmingly seem to be Renegade. Anyway, these people preach that they're strong, that it's they right and destiny to 'dominate' the supposed weak.

 

And look how quickly that collapses. Look how quickly they curl into a ball and demand 'fairness.' You have to give me what Liara romances got because that's what's 'fair.' Because it just isn't right if things aren't fair. Things have got to be fair.

 

Isn't that funny? I think that's very funny.

 

 

Making up arguments to counter again, eh? 

[Ryzaki]

@Crutch
Almost exactly how my canon plays out. Way more powerful scene, IMO, than blabbing about the sabotage in the truck and having a "there must be another way!" talk with Mordin.

 

Same. Plus my Shep is thinking over the decision to the last moment.

[DeinonSlayer]

Same. Plus my Shep is thinking over the decision to the last moment.

My Shepard never draws on him, but he does challenge Mordin for his change of heart. He comes clean with the sabotage as soon as he and Mordin are alone. Even if you fully intend to cure it, there's no need to dump gasoline on the fire by revealing to Wrex/Wreav what the Dalatrass wanted you to do. There's more than enough bad blood already.

[PMC65]

Then please tell me how Shepard is supposed to reach the second squadmate? The Yahg threw the table in between Shepard and the other squad mate. There is no way, Shepard is going to dive backwards when Liara is closer. And if Shepard would have dove the other way, she would have been hit with the table too. Replay that scene and take a close look. A little common sense is your friend here...

 

I have always found these types of threads depressing as poo. Yes, poo.

 

As a fan of Liara and Ashley's, it sometimes feels that it would be best avoiding this site altogether. Something I do quite often, but then there are posters that I like ... and cool Mass Effect things happen that I want to share.

 

So I'll leave my latest goody here for all the fellow positive fans  ... I filmed it yesterday at Monsterpalooza for my family and friends that also enjoy the characters in Mass Effect.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=rfEJ17CNqlQ

[Ryzaki]

My Shepard never draws on him, but he does challenge Mordin for his change of heart. He comes clean with the sabotage as soon as he and Mordin are alone. Even if you fully intend to cure it, there's no need to dump gasoline on the fire by revealing to Wrex/Wreav what the Dalatrass wanted you to do. There's more than enough bad blood already.

 

My Shep usually draws on him. Even the paragons D: (And alot of them fire ;_ Mine does the "don't go up there mordin!" unless renegade who flat out tells him no.

 

And true I'm surprised that didn't lead to yet another argument but I guess at the point it's cured Wrex doesn't give a damn anymore.

[CrutchCricket]

Then please tell me how Shepard is supposed to reach the second squadmate? The Yahg threw the table in between Shepard and the other squad mate. There is no way, Shepard is going to dive backwards when Liara is closer. And if Shepard would have dove the other way, she would have been hit with the table too. Replay that scene and take a close look. A little common sense is your friend here...

 

Your argument: " In a spit-second decision where instict and emotion are the only things fast enough to fire, I'm not going to try and save my LI because it isn't easy. Instead I'm going to save this random blue chick I may not even like."

 

Seems legit.

 

Should I even bother going into the massive flaws in positioning in that scene? Namely, why is Liara so close she looks like she's about to hug you while the second squadmate is at the appropriate distance such that no single attack would compromise both of you? Or how about the fact that Liara could and should've gone "lol nope" with her biotics, showing off badassery in combat in what's supposed to be her DLC? Congrats on undoing a game's worth of implausible character development Bioware, in the end Liara still needs me to save her ass?

 

But don't let details get in your way. Liara is perfect and any and all attention given to her is only the right and flawless way of the universe. The rest of us simply don't "get it" right?

[Bob from Accounting]

I have always found these types of threads depressing as poo. Yes, poo.

 

As a fan of Liara and Ashley's, it sometimes feels that it would be best avoiding this site altogether. Something I do quite often, but then there are posters that I like ... and cool Mass Effect things happen that I want to share.

 

So I'll leave my latest goody here for all the fellow positive fans  ... I filmed it yesterday at Monsterpalooza for my family and friends that also enjoy the characters in Mass Effect.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=rfEJ17CNqlQ

 

Take heart. There's nothing to be upset over. The vast majority of people who claim to 'hate' Liara do so out of nothing more than an attempt to 'get back' at BioWare over not getting what they wanted. It clearly has nothing to do with her character. They're no more powerful or dangerous than infants shrieking in a crib.

 

There have been no end of posters generous enough to provide us with flawless evidence such as this:

 

 

Or how about the fact that Liara could and should've gone "lol nope" with her biotics, showing off badassery in combat in what's supposed to be her DLC? Congrats on undoing a game's worth of implausible character development Bioware, in the end Liara still needs me to save her ass?

 

We can see how far the depths of this delusions go.

 

[themikefest]

Take heart. There's nothing to be upset over. The vast majority of people who claim to 'hate' Liara do so out of nothing more than an attempt to 'get back' at BioWare over not getting what they wanted. It clearly has nothing to do with her character. They're no more powerful or dangerous than infants shrieking in a crib.

And what is it that I wanted BOB?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Take heart. There's nothing to be upset over. The vast majority of people who claim to 'hate' Liara do so out of nothing more than an attempt to 'get back' at BioWare over not getting what they wanted. It clearly has nothing to do with her character. They're no more powerful or dangerous than infants shrieking in a crib.

 

No.

 

This is a silly and nonsensical point you keep bringing up over and over again, without any evidence.

 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

[Bob from Accounting]

The evidence is piled on by you and those like you every day. Every single day.

 

Post upon post upon post of whining 'Liara got this! Why didn't my love interest get this?' I could probably pull up ten examples posted within the last half hour. Post upon post upon post of accusations of 'favoritism.'

 

People weren't satisfied with their love interest content. They're powerless. 'Hating' Liara is the only weapon to have to punish BioWare for apparently valuing Liara over whoever they value.

 

Incredibly childish and ineffective, obviously. But...there you go.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Shepard's purpose is to save everyone's ass, even Liara's. 

 

The entire cutscene is implausible. It's the "confrontation conversation" with the boss where the boss gets to explain his motives to the peon protagonist. Just shoot the f***er! Did you go in there to kill him, or to have tea with him? Do you really care about his motives? No. You went in there to kill him. So do it. In before David says "that's not heroic."

[themikefest]

The evidence is piled on by you and those like you every day. Every single day.

 

Post upon post upon post of whining 'Liara got this! Why didn't my love interest get this?' I could probably pull up ten examples posted within the last half hour. Post upon post upon post of accusations of 'favoritism.'

 

People weren't satisfied with their love interest content. They're powerless. 'Hating' Liara is the only weapon to have to punish BioWare for apparently valuing Liara over whoever they value.

 

Incredibly childish and ineffective, obviously. But...there you go.

Again, you don't speak for me. Stop assuming something that doesn't apply to me. I hated Liara long before I met Samantha(my LI) so your argument is crap in that department.

[Bob from Accounting]

Of course, there's another big reason as well. As one of the most 'Paragon' characters, and certainly the most mandatory one (perhaps alongside EDI), Liara makes an excellent target for players frustrated that the narrative frowns on 'evil' choices. They 'hate' her as a means to punish BioWare for Renegade choices not panning out the way they wanted them do.