859 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Don't think it's an import bug, as I've never had it not happen (although it was a while since I last played through this sequence). I think it's the writers' way of signaling to players new to ME that Liara Matters to Shepard, but I always found it annoying the breathy way mShep says "Liara" as if he's seen just seen the love of his life for the first time in a thousand years or something.

 

That is exactly what it seemed like to me, yeah.

 

Whether or not it was a bug -- and it may indeed have been one, I don't know -- things like this probably exacerbate the problem. That is, it is one thing to present the player with a character, and quite another to tell the player how to feel toward that character, or to control their behavior toward her. Players who dislike Liara will probably dislike her more, and even players who don't dislike her don't want to be made to act like they're in love with her when they're not.

[Darks1d3]

@eyezonlyii You're wasting your time. He's just going to try to turn the argument into something else entirely in an attempt to make it look like you're the one who is wrong.

[eyezonlyii]

Do you understand the fact that a 'completely different relationship' and a 'difference in tone' are not the same thing as you seem to have deluded yourself into thinking?
 
Also, Liara point-blank says all five are connected to the Broker in some form or another.

A difference in tone IS a different relationship or have you deluded yourself into thinking that the tone people respond to you with and the tone everyone responds to each other with equate the same level of relationship?

On your other point: the fact that she can disassociate herself from violence at one point, but then is completely overwhelmed later is a contradiction that as you have seen, people are upset about. Especially when she was so callous with her execution shots on Mars.

[von uber]

No, she doesn't.

 

Just because someone is a love interest does not mean they should have a completely different relationship with the player character.

 

Friends first. Lovers second.

 

 

And what if you are lovers first (like my Shep is)?

[Bob from Accounting]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Liara had built up a facade of coldness by ME 2 which collapses at the conclusion of Lair of the Shadow Broker, where she has a catharsis. Hence the crying.

[eyezonlyii]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Liara had built up a facade of coldness by ME 2 which collapses at the conclusion of Lair of the Shadow Broker, where she has a catharsis. Hence the crying.

Only to build it back up before Mars right?

[von uber]

 Especially when she was so callous with her execution shots on Mars.

 

Yes, indeed she is. But I suspect that is more for those who are new to ME to give them an idea that she is not to be messed with.

 

[Bob from Accounting]

And what if you are lovers first (like my Shep is)?

 

Shepard isn't.

[von uber]

Shepard isn't.

 

Mine is.

[Darks1d3]

So David, you went from "she never hurt innocents" to "she may have killed innocents, but she redeemed herself at the end of LoTSB".

[Bob from Accounting]

Only to build it back up before Mars right?

 

Is this really that complicated of an issue? I didn't think so. But apparently to you, it is.

 

Enemies are enemies. And despite what you might have once again deluded yourself into thinking by reading fan fiction or something, Shepard and Liara and everyone kills them.

 

They kill them. They shoot them. They stab them. The blow them apart. This has been happening from day one. Do you understand that simple concept? Do you understand what killing is? You think Shepard and Liara were having picnics with their foes in ME 1?

 

Liara kills the Cerberus troopers. And guess what? Immediately afterward, she's warm and friendly to Shepard.

 

If you're just now thinking it's a 'contradiction' to kill people and be friendly and good, then you've either been blind or foolish. This has been going on since the very beginning.

[Bob from Accounting]

So David, you went from "she never hurt innocents" to "she may have killed innocents, but she redeemed herself at the end of LoTSB".

 

When did I ever say such a thing?

 

But in a sense, that's more or less true. Liara herself never kills an innocent, but she does build up a facade that becomes accepting of it by ME 2. Not something I approve of, but thankfully, neither does Shepard. Who explicitly calls her out on it several times.

 

And yes, the facade collapses at the end of LotSB.
 

[General TSAR]

Was anyone else peeved about the Alliance air support comment the bimbo made on Thessia? 

[Bob from Accounting]

Mine is.

 

You can 'head-canon' whatever fantasy you like. But surely you understand why you can't expect BioWare to accommodate that?

[themikefest]

What Liara sort of reminds me of is that rather bland gal who showed up in all those old Clint Eastwood movies (what's-her-name). Outlaw Josie Wales, that Dirty Harry sequel, etc. Never had much personality in any of those movies, but she was always, always cast as his romantic interest. I think Eastwood dating her was the reason she got work.

Sondre Locke. They were a couple for several years. I didn't like her that much.

[themikefest]

Was anyone else peeved about the Alliance air support comment the bimbo made on Thessia? 

Yes. There should've been a renegade interrupt for Shepard to tell her off.

[eyezonlyii]

Is this really that complicated of an issue? I didn't think so. But apparently to you, it is.
 
Enemies are enemies. And despite what you might have once again deluded yourself into thinking by reading fan fiction or something, Shepard and Liara and everyone kills them.
 
They kill them. They shoot them. They stab them. The blow them apart. This has been happening from day one. Do you understand that simple concept? Do you understand what killing is? You think Shepard and Liara were having picnics with their foes in ME 1?
 
Liara kills the Cerberus troopers. And guess what? Immediately afterward, she's warm and friendly to Shepard.
 
If you're just now thinking it's a 'contradiction' to kill people and be friendly and good, then you've either been blind or foolish. This has been going on since the very beginning.

I love how flustered you get.

[Bob from Accounting]

A weakness of mine. Not a great deal of paitence when I hear something of such ignorance.

[von uber]

You can 'head-canon' whatever fantasy you like. But surely you understand why you can't expect BioWare to accommodate that?

 

Bollocks. My Shep had a continous romance from ME1 > ME2 > ME3.

They were lovers, it's not 'headcanon'.

[DeinonSlayer]

That is exactly what it seemed like to me, yeah.
 
Whether or not it was a bug -- and it may indeed have been one, I don't know -- things like this probably exacerbate the problem. That is, it is one thing to present the player with a character, and quite another to tell the player how to feel toward that character, or to control their behavior toward her. Players who dislike Liara will probably dislike her more, and even players who don't dislike her don't want to be made to act like they're in love with her when they're not.

Annoying though it is, I'm inclined to think Mshep's greeting for Liara is a bug. MShep has two very distinct ways of greeting Tali when you first meet her. If you romanced her, he simply says her name in the same awed voice he uses for Liara on Mars. If he didn't romance her, he just says something casual along the lines of "Glad you could make it, Tali." I think MShep (and possibly FShep) uses the Liaramance greeting every time.

[von uber]

Like the SCCCHHTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEE bug?

[Bob from Accounting]

You're going to have to learn to deal with the plain and simple fact that the developers aren't going to give you an entire new relationship with a character because you romance them. Much of the dialogue is going to the same, and that's really just the end of it.

[eyezonlyii]

We can still put in our input for future projects.

[von uber]

You're going to have to learn to deal with the plain and simple fact that the developers aren't going to give you an entire new relationship with a character because you romance them. Much of the dialogue is going to the same, and that's really just the end of it.

 

How is an ongoing, imported romance 'an entire new relationship'?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You're going to have to learn to deal with the plain and simple fact that the developers aren't going to give you an entire new relationship with a character because you romance them. Much of the dialogue is going to the same, and that's really just the end of it.

 

No we don't have to learn and deal with it. We can actually express our hope and interest to have BW make the romances like... well, their own romances in other games, like Dragon Age, and KotOR... 

 

You say we should just accept things the way they are. Why should we? Why can't we ask for more? Why can't we expect better? Why can't we expect greater?