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Liara hate


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#151
FlyingSquirrel

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What I thought was odder was how she went from being the woman who was perfectly calm before and after the premeditated murder of Nyxeris; who glibly announced that she'd kill all five of the people she suspected to be the Observer if Shepard refused to help... then come Thessia, she "can't be that callous" when you recommend she try to shut out the destruction and focus on the objective.

 

Liara's transition between games never made a whole lot of sense to me. I can accept that she got drawn into the whole information-trading business through her mission to recover Shepard's body and her later plans to rescue Feron. But she talks about wanting "revenge" against the Broker - after explicitly saying she *doesn't* want revenge against Saren if Shepard raises the subject and even says she feels sorry for Saren, and he was the one who got her mother indoctrinated and killed. Then she seems to revert back to her earlier form in ME3 outside of a few scenes (like executing the Cerberus troops when she first shows up - I had expected her to be in full "dark, haunted ME2 Liara" mode when I saw that, but then she shifts gears for no discernible reason).



#152
Bob from Accounting

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Liara did not even meet Saren until Virmire, and even then, she doesn't speak to him or fight him.

 

We don't know what happened between her and the Broker, aside from him capturing her friend.

 

Really, this all seems to boil down to 'I'm unable to conceive of Liara treating different people differently.'



#153
Barquiel

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The BSN is not a good sample size for the fanbase at large (as evidenced by various statistics, polls and surveys)...but even here it isn't exactly widespread hate. Just the same few people discussing the same old topics over and over and over again for 2 years now.

Sure, there are some legitimate complaints (for example Shepard always hugging Liara on Illium...and yes, some squaddies didn't get the screen time they deserved in ME3), while others are sheer nonsense (stalker!!!!, Shepard not blaming Liara/Tevos after Thessia or the complaints that Liara rescued Shepards body). But it's just us fans, hardcore players or whatever you want to call the non-casual players who complain about these things.


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#154
kipac

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Popular people with huge fanbase bound to have lots of haters.
As for me, I never really liked nor hated Liara, probably because I don't really like Asari in general except for Aria.
Other than Aria, they are all kind of similar.

#155
FlyingSquirrel

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I do think some of the complaints about Liara being "forced" into too many scenes are a little exaggerated. Every Mass Effect game has mandatory squadmates at the beginning with at least one who dies or otherwise gets written out in the first couple hours (1: Kaidan, Ashley, Jenkins; 2: Jacob, Wilson, Miranda; 3: Anderson, James, Liara, VS). Given the need to accommodate all the possible character deaths, either Liara or the VS was going to have an outsize role at first unless they were going to start Shepard off with two newcomers instead of just one (James).

 

Past that, most of the "forced" missions with a single squadmate are the homeworld-specific ones. Liara is mandatory on Thessia, but so are Tali on at least 2 of the Rannoch missions, Garrus on Palaven's moon once you find him, and EDI on Cronos Station (which is sort of her homeworld, I guess).

 

The only segments where I thought there really should have been an option to avoid Liara were (a) Eden Prime, where she actually doesn't contribute much since Shepard is the one with the cipher and the ability to understand the protheans; and (B) her time capsule, where some of the autodialogue feels wrong if she and Shepard haven't been especially good friends beforehand.

 

(Actually, is it possible to avoid *anybody's* requests for a visit to Shepard's cabin without gumming up the queue for others? If Traynor asks before James, for example, and I never invite Traynor, does that mean I never get the "Invite James" prompt on Shepard's console? Though that still doesn't account for the lack of variety in how those scenes unfold - they should have had more lines that were unique to how Shepard had interacted with each character up to that point.)



#156
Iakus

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(Actually, is it possible to avoid *anybody's* requests for a visit to Shepard's cabin without gumming up the queue for others? If Traynor asks before James, for example, and I never invite Traynor, does that mean I never get the "Invite James" prompt on Shepard's console? Though that still doesn't account for the lack of variety in how those scenes unfold - they should have had more lines that were unique to how Shepard had interacted with each character up to that point.)

 

I'd have settled for an opportunity to invite up Ash, pre-Cronos station.



#157
DeinonSlayer

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The BSN is not a good sample size for the fanbase at large (as evidenced by various statistics, polls and surveys)...but even here it isn't exactly widespread hate. Just the same few people discussing the same old topics over and over and over again for 2 years now.
Sure, there are some legitimate complaints (for example Shepard always hugging Liara on Illium...and yes, some squaddies didn't get the screen time they deserved in ME3), while others are sheer nonsense (stalker!!!!, Shepard not blaming Liara/Tevos after Thessia or the complaints that Liara rescued Shepards body). But it's just us fans, hardcore players or whatever you want to call the non-casual players who complain about these things.

I've yet to see you explain why we shouldn't have the option to challenge Tevos. I think it's beyond stupid that Shepard can berate Admiral Raan for "violating" a treaty the Quarians aren't even signatories to (Farixen - seriously, we're bitching about having too many dreadnoughts in a Reaper invasion?), but you don't see me calling for it to be removed from the game simply because I disagree. We can confront Liara about the Asari hiding the beacon, why not Tevos?
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#158
themikefest

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If T'soni,Tali and Garrus are mandatory for their homeworlds, why isn't James mandatory for his, Earth? I know Shepard is human, but some play a colonist or spacer so some wouldn't  call Earth their home.


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#159
sH0tgUn jUliA

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She's garbage her voice pissed me of and her face reaction  think about this she's a gold digger she really dosent care about you so much until you mention the vision.Now she hooked to you:) http://youtu.be/Ys4sHKj6nAE?t=5m12s :) proof she dosent know jack crap, and she winning like a little baby this is how you play  also wtf is she even in the games apart her being a romance option or the two fingers expert.take that away then what she sucks at combat low health  and thats why bioware made her the shadow broker which is just straight up bull.So now people won't say whats her f***ing purpose.shes the only alien to romance in me 1 thats why most people picked.screw the asari they suck damn this character got on my nerve.

Your Shepard is an ass.

 

SdJWqw4_zps9f915634.jpg



#160
Sir DeLoria

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Well, I find Liara to be incredibly dull and uninteresting. Her conversations about her mom and childhood couldn't be more boring.

But I don't hate or particularly dislike her, I just hate the way BW treats her.

#161
eyezonlyii

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If T'soni,Tali and Garrus are mandatory for their homeworlds, why isn't James mandatory for his, Earth? I know Shepard is human, but some play a colonist or spacer so some wouldn't  call Earth their home.

 

I don't mind the mandatory missions so much, except I wish that everyone would have gotten one. James should have been mandatory all through Mars, Kaidan at Grissom, and Ashley on Jacob's mission to see the other side of Cerberus personnel. (ideally, I would have had the ME2 squad mates mandatory on their own missions, but oh well).

 

I'm big enough to admit that my dislike (even that is too strong of a word) for Liara come to her large amount of screen time and the written tone of the relationship. I actually have the same problem with Garrus. We had a professional relationship in ME, and while I was glad to see him in ME2, the line "There's no Shepard without Vakarian" would have named a different squad mate. 


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#162
Barquiel

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Because...
- The matriarchs on Thessia informed Tevos of the existence of the beacon during the war (as she tells you after Rannoch)...and she immediately contacts Shepard. You have no cause to blame her. She simply didn't know the beacon existed before the war and contacts Shepards as soon as she has received the intel.
- If the asari had revealed the beacon sooner, then it's likely Shepard would never have been sent to retrieve it (that only happened because it was urgent and dangerous), so it would never have activated. EDI flat out tells Liara that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing because every scientist studying it would have needed Shepard's cipher to comprehend it. Vendetta also said it was programmed to withhold the information for fear of the Reapers learning of the Catalyst's intended use before the Crucible was completed.

This is all laid out in dialog, and requires nothing more than reading/listening to pick up. No inference, just statements.


And just because there are some stupid lines of dialogue doesn't mean we need them in every conversation. Cerberus is backed by some powerful entities in the Alliance/the Alliance military-industrial complex. Does that mean we need the option to confront every alliance admiral we meet? I don't remember the Farixen dialogue, but the quarians fleet does act in Council Space. There are probably some restrictions.
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#163
eyezonlyii

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Because...
- The matriarchs on Thessia informed Tevos of the existence of the beacon during the war (as she tells you after Rannoch)...and she immediately contacts Shepard. You have no cause to blame her. She simply didn't know the beacon existed before the war and contacts Shepards as soon as she has received the intel.
- If the asari had revealed the beacon sooner, then it's likely Shepard would never have been sent to retrieve it (that only happened because it was urgent and dangerous), so it would never have activated. EDI flat out tells Liara that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing because every scientist studying it would have needed Shepard's cipher to comprehend it. Vendetta also said it was programmed to withhold the information for fear of the Reapers learning of the Catalyst's intended use before the Crucible was completed.

This is all laid out in dialog, and requires nothing more than reading/listening to pick up. No inference, just statements.


And just because there are some stupid lines of dialogue doesn't mean we need them in every conversation. Cerberus is backed by some powerful entities in the Alliance/the Alliance military-industrial complex. Does that mean we need the option to confront every alliance admiral we meet? I don't remember the Farixen dialogue, but the quarians fleet does act in Council Space. There are probably some restrictions.

Maybe then if there was some sort of contrition on her part, then people would be more assuaged. Something to indicate that she would be looking into matters more and making sure that (should the galaxy survive) nothing like this will ever happen again.



#164
themikefest

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You should still be able to say something to the councillor of how stupid her government was in withholding that info. Had it been revealed earlier, there is a possibilty that Vendetta could've helped with the building of the crucible and maybe have it completed earlier which would've/could've saved lives.


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#165
Sir DeLoria

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I do hope the Asari government is appropriately punished for a severe offence to council law and endangerment of the war's outcome.

#166
themikefest

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I do hope the Asari government is appropriately punished for a severe offence to council law and endangerment of the war's outcome.

I can think of a lot of different punishments I like to handout to the Asari. I believe that if the next game is a sequel, that it will be forgotten because after the galaxy has rebuilt itself, punishment to the Asari will be an after thought. Or they could just have someone in the game say that the individuals responsible for not telling have been dealt with and the game moves forward.


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#167
ImaginaryMatter

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I do hope the Asari government is appropriately punished for a severe offence to council law and endangerment of the war's outcome.

 

I think you're out of luck for that one. Apparently the Asari can't do wrong.



#168
eyezonlyii

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I think you're out of luck for that one. Apparently the Asari can't do wrong.


Actually its like how the engines from futurama bend space around the ship, the plot and council laws bend around the Asari.
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#169
AlexMBrennan

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can think of a lot of different punishments I like to handout to the Asari.

Well, you sure manage to be surprisingly ignorant of history.



#170
Hadeedak

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Well, you sure manage to be surprisingly ignorant of history.

 

 

Crude real world analogy that may or may not be analogous to the hypothetical situation!

 

Take a shot! Take another for the analogy he's drawing!


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#171
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I do hope the Asari government is appropriately punished for a severe offence to council law and endangerment of the war's outcome.

 

Like the Salarians refusing to aid if you cure the genophage? The Krogan demanding a cure before they give aid? the Quarians starting their own private war? And so on.


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#172
Barquiel

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I think you're out of luck for that one. Apparently the Asari can't do wrong.


If anything Mac Walters (or John Dumbrow, I'm not sure) had his fun diminishing the Asari during the Thessia mission.

Oh the asari "cheated" their way to the most advanced race because they learned everything advanced from a prothean beacon!. Because the humans didn't?

Their tactics are so useless against the Reapers! This in spite of the fact that several planet description for asari colonies say that Asari cities are hard for the Reapers to conquer. They used hit and run tactics to defend some of their worlds. Hackett and Anderson also use hit and run tactics like the asari.

The asari military is so weak! The Asari contribute even more war assets than the Turians, and double the Salarians...

#173
DeinonSlayer

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Because...
- The matriarchs on Thessia informed Tevos of the existence of the beacon during the war (as she tells you after Rannoch)...and she immediately contacts Shepard. You have no cause to blame her. She simply didn't know the beacon existed before the war and contacts Shepards as soon as she has received the intel.
- If the asari had revealed the beacon sooner, then it's likely Shepard would never have been sent to retrieve it (that only happened because it was urgent and dangerous), so it would never have activated. EDI flat out tells Liara that revealing the beacon earlier wouldn't have changed a thing because every scientist studying it would have needed Shepard's cipher to comprehend it. Vendetta also said it was programmed to withhold the information for fear of the Reapers learning of the Catalyst's intended use before the Crucible was completed.

This is all laid out in dialog, and requires nothing more than reading/listening to pick up. No inference, just statements.


And just because there are some stupid lines of dialogue doesn't mean we need them in every conversation. Cerberus is backed by some powerful entities in the Alliance/the Alliance military-industrial complex. Does that mean we need the option to confront every alliance admiral we meet? I don't remember the Farixen dialogue, but the quarians fleet does act in Council Space. There are probably some restrictions.

Confirmation bias. The other squadmates are far less charitable in their assessment of the situation while in the temple proper. For instance, Tali: "Given the temple's age and the amount of time the asari have had to study it, it would only take a few scientific advances to give the asari an edge over the other races. Which, I'd like to add, you now have." Garrus: "If they made a breakthrough every couple of centuries, the Asari would practically be running the galaxy, which they pretty much do." Even EDI says something similar there.

As for your second point, I can tell you right now EDI is either flat-out wrong, or simply lying to assuage Liara's grief, for one very simple reason: Shepard isn't the only one with the cipher. Shiala had it first. Feros is accessible earlier in the game (there's a war asset to recover there, can't remember what). We could have scraped her up along with however many Thorian-tainted colonists she'd need in close proximity to keep the indoctrination in check and sent her off to the Crucible project. The cipher makes her a unique asset, and beacon or no beacon, she'd accomplish a hell of a lot more working there, even doing basic translation, than she achieves by plinking husks from some rooftop in a dead city. If Shepard is any example, she could give the Cipher to any scientist who needed it. Javik, too, would have been a more-than-adequate substitute.

For the entire game up to this point, we've had fetch quest after fetch quest scouring the galaxy looking for what are, basically, potsherds to assist in figuring out the Crucible (seriously, one of the fetch quests is to find a statue whose only value is as a translation aid). Don't try to tell me there's no value to a completely intact Prothean beacon. In the very least, having it (and Vendetta along with it) off Thessia would have prevented Cerberus from getting their hands on it, but they didn't want to give up the secret; they didn't want the scandal (it was they who made it a crime to withhold Prothean artifacts), they wanted to stick their heads in the sand and pretend they would be immune to what happened to Palaven and Earth. Had the Asari government revealed the beacon sooner, the battle for Earth, and all casualties incurred therein, would have been averted.

So, yeah, I'd have liked the option to bring this up to Tevos rather than groveling before her. Shepard may well have caused four species to go extinct by this point in the narrative, and with each of them came dialogue choices (or autodialogue, in the case of the Hanar) basically spitting on the graves (lie to Wrex about shooting Mordin, shoot Wrex, and lie to C-Sec about why he attacked; deny the Geth were alive to begin with; "the Quarians were stupid"). Why, then, is Shepard emotionally devastated and claiming personal responsibility for the fall of Thessia when the Asari get hit?


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#174
von uber

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Wasting your time Barquiel; some people really have a bee in their bonnet over the Asari (whilst ignoring the flaws in the other races - or if not ignoring, being certainly much less vocal). It's very strange.


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#175
eyezonlyii

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Wasting your time Barquiel; some people really have a bee in their bonnet over the Asari (whilst ignoring the flaws in the other races - or if not ignoring, being certainly much less vocal). It's very strange.


I think it's because the flaws of the other species are confronted in the narrative.

Turian bomb on Tuchanka
Quarian/Geth war (as scrubbed as the presentation is)
Humanity and Cerberus
Protheans and Empire
Salarians and Genophage
Krogan are a walking example
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