Oh I agree with you on most points (minus Cerberus. I just can't reconcile ME Cerberus with ME2 Cerberus. I think I'll headcanon from now on that they are just two separate organizations who just happen to share a name).
Not necessarily the actions (which I don't have a moral or ethical issue with), but the actual history and description of group and how it was retconned is irksome.
If all of the leading ladies can come together and dance under a waterfall, then maybe we should too...
That's... certainly something isn't it.
Oh I agree with you on most points (minus Cerberus. I just can't reconcile ME Cerberus with ME2 Cerberus. I think I'll headcanon from now on that they are just two separate organizations who just happen to share a name).
I have the same view on Cerberus and it results in me feeling very bipolar about them. In ME1 they weren't supposed to be anything more than these crazy mooks who did unethical, stupid things under the thin guise of pro-human advancement, ME2 doesn't even really make an attempt to address the ME1 Cerberus as much as it just ignores it. Because of that whenever TIM speaks of pragmatism I see it through the prism of ME1 Cerberus and it simply sounds as if he's being self righteous or just plain ignorant; which is a shame because TIM and the ME2 Cerberus are interesting (maybe even needed by the universe) by themselves, but they are weighed down by their past selves.
From now on I'm thinking I'm just going to have to avoid all the ME1 Cerberus stuff.
I have the same view on Cerberus and it results in me feeling very bipolar about them. In ME1 they weren't supposed to be anything more than these crazy mooks who did unethical, stupid things under the thin guise of pro-human advancement, ME2 doesn't even really make an attempt to address the ME1 Cerberus as much as it just ignores it. Because of that whenever TIM speaks of pragmatism I see it through the prism of ME1 Cerberus and it simply sounds as if he's being self righteous or just plain ignorant; which is a shame because TIM and the ME2 Cerberus are interesting (maybe even needed by the universe) by themselves, but they are weighed down by their past selves.
From now on I'm thinking I'm just going to have to avoid all the ME1 Cerberus stuff.
Especially jarring when you play Sole Survivor Shep.
Cerberus was, at the very least, an Alliance black ops organization. So, I ask again, why do humans get let off the hook for a var more heinous act than the Asari?
I have the same view on Cerberus and it results in me feeling very bipolar about them. In ME1 they weren't supposed to be anything more than these crazy mooks who did unethical, stupid things under the thin guise of pro-human advancement, ME2 doesn't even really make an attempt to address the ME1 Cerberus as much as it just ignores it. Because of that whenever TIM speaks of pragmatism I see it through the prism of ME1 Cerberus and it simply sounds as if he's being self righteous or just plain ignorant; which is a shame because TIM and the ME2 Cerberus are interesting (maybe even needed by the universe) by themselves, but they are weighed down by their past selves.
From now on I'm thinking I'm just going to have to avoid all the ME1 Cerberus stuff.
I have no problem head canon Me1 and Me2 versions of Cerberus. It falls apart with ME3 amount of stupidity even I can't stand.
If the Asari told Shepard and friends sooner the temple could have been made more secure or Vendetta could have been moved to a safer location, like how Kai Leng moved him to Cerberus HQ. Upon discovery of the Crucible requirement, Vendetta could have been moved to the still under construction Crucible to smooth things out or hacked like what Cerberus did.
At the end of the day the Asari government: 1) broke the Council law they themselves added, 2) because of this steps that could have been taken to secure Vendetta were never implemented. What make's this all frustrating is that it is heavily implied the Asari did this for purely political reasons when all the races are facing complete extinction. Sure maybe the Councilor is unaware of the beacon (although I have trouble believing that), but that does not excuse the Matriarchs or whomever was in charge of all this secrecy. What makes it worse is that Shepard is railroaded into being sad for the Asari when he had the option to be callous towards the other extinct or dwindling races he was involved with.
I'm a big fan of sentient, blue skinned, bipedals in the Mass Effect universe; but the Asari government is responsible for the crime of standing idle and letting politics dominate their course of action in ME3. It's frustrating that the Matriarchs are some how immune to Shepard calling them out on their crap like he can with every other dumb, self serving politician in this game; instead the only option we have is to feel varying degrees of deep sadness for them.
The Asari had Asari Commandos guarding the temple. Do you know about Asari Commandos? 5 of them killed 100 Bloodpack mercs on a slave raid until they were relieved. That was the Serrice Guard. The Turians say that "Asari Commandos are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't too many of them." How could the temple have been made more secure than it was being guarded by Asari Commandos?
It wouldn't have mattered. You're not getting it. What ever was there was taken out by plot. Kai Lame cloaked, got inside, and killed the scientists and waited for Shepard.
How did Cerberus find out about the temple? Was it because Bioware was too lazy to have Councilor Tevos or Irissa take a walk with Shepard somewhere other than the obviously bugged Udina's office? Again failure by reason of plot.
Trust me, if the temple had been revealed earlier, Cerberus would have been there, or something else would have gone wrong at the critical moment. There would have been a Cerberus mole on the Crucible project among those scientists you rescued with Jacob who would have tipped off TIM that a Prothean Beacon was moved to a secure site nearby. TIM would have found out.
Cerberus was, at the very least, an Alliance black ops organization. So, I ask again, why do humans get let off the hook for a var more heinous act than the Asari?
They really don't though. The whole series is about how humanity is looked down/feared/not trusted as a whole by the other species. Plus the fact that everyone knows about Cerberus. That's the difference. Other races' dirty laundry was aired out minus the Turian bomb. Everyone knows the Salarians developed the genophage,, everyone knows about the Geth and Quarians and everyone sees the Krogan situation. There is deserved ill will from previous actions.
The Asari are generally seen as the perfect apex of civilization with the flaw of they don't live in the now.
The Asari had Asari Commandos guarding the temple. Do you know about Asari Commandos? 5 of them killed 100 Bloodpack mercs on a slave raid until they were relieved. That was the Serrice Guard. The Turians say that "Asari Commandos are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't too many of them." How could the temple have been made more secure than it was being guarded by Asari Commandos?
It wouldn't have mattered. You're not getting it. What ever was there was taken out by plot. Kai Lame cloaked, got inside, and killed the scientists and waited for Shepard.
How did Cerberus find out about the temple? Was it because Bioware was too lazy to have Councilor Tevos or Irissa take a walk with Shepard somewhere other than the obviously bugged Udina's office? Again failure by reason of plot.
Trust me, if the temple had been revealed earlier, Cerberus would have been there, or something else would have gone wrong at the critical moment. There would have been a Cerberus mole on the Crucible project among those scientists you rescued with Jacob who would have tipped off TIM that a Prothean Beacon was moved to a secure site nearby. TIM would have found out.
That would have been more believable though instead of...they were just there. In fact that could have been information found out during the coup (though technically it still could have been I guess).
Didn't TIM find out about the Temple from the bit of data he got from Mars?
The Asari had Asari Commandos guarding the temple. Do you know about Asari Commandos? 5 of them killed 100 Bloodpack mercs on a slave raid until they were relieved. That was the Serrice Guard. The Turians say that "Asari Commandos are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately there aren't too many of them." How could the temple have been made more secure than it was being guarded by Asari Commandos?
It wouldn't have mattered. You're not getting it. What ever was there was taken out by plot. Kai Lame cloaked, got inside, and killed the scientists and waited for Shepard.
How did Cerberus find out about the temple? Was it because Bioware was too lazy to have Councilor Tevos or Irissa take a walk with Shepard somewhere other than the obviously bugged Udina's office? Again failure by reason of plot.
Trust me, if the temple had been revealed earlier, Cerberus would have been there, or something else would have gone wrong at the critical moment. There would have been a Cerberus mole on the Crucible project among those scientists you rescued with Jacob who would have tipped off TIM that a Prothean Beacon was moved to a secure site nearby. TIM would have found out.
I understand that. I'm mostly complaining about Shepard's reaction to the whole thing. All the stuff with moving Vendetta has to do with how big of an impact the beacon revelation could have made on the war from an in game stand point. From a meta-game perspective yes Cerberus would have foiled us with their space ninja voodoo, because drama and tension make the story interesting. The main point though is Shepard's reaction to the whole thing.
Didn't TIM find out about the Temple from the bit of data he got from Mars?
Who knows? I think that's the reason given but I don't remember if the story ever addresses how he got that information (did the sexbot email it to him?) or why Shepard and friends don't have it.
Didn't TIM find out about the Temple from the bit of data he got from Mars?
Took his time to do anything with it then.
Who knows? I think that's the reason given but I don't remember if the story ever addresses how he got that information (did the sexbot email it to him?) or why Shepard and friends don't have it.
I only mentioned that because when talking with Hackett, Shepard says TIM downloaded some of it before Liara got the rest of it.
I only mentioned that because when talking with Hackett, Shepard says TIM downloaded some of it before Liara got the rest of it.
I think that's supposed to explain how he knows about the Crucible at all, and then is able to alter it to some up with control.
Took his time to do anything with it then.
Its possible he knew that he needed Shepard to activate the artifact since he/she has the cipher
I have the same view on Cerberus and it results in me feeling very bipolar about them. In ME1 they weren't supposed to be anything more than these crazy mooks who did unethical, stupid things under the thin guise of pro-human advancement, ME2 doesn't even really make an attempt to address the ME1 Cerberus as much as it just ignores it. Because of that whenever TIM speaks of pragmatism I see it through the prism of ME1 Cerberus and it simply sounds as if he's being self righteous or just plain ignorant; which is a shame because TIM and the ME2 Cerberus are interesting (maybe even needed by the universe) by themselves, but they are weighed down by their past selves.
From now on I'm thinking I'm just going to have to avoid all the ME1 Cerberus stuff.
Bioware probably should have just created a new organization for ME2.
They don't do anything with the group's ME1 actions even the Sole Survivor stuff and their butchery on our own people no less just poisons people's perception of the group. As you said it undermines their Mass Effect 2 characterization.
Not that the ME2 characterization didn't have big problems as well but at least they would have a fresh start.
Didn't TIM find out about the Temple from the bit of data he got from Mars?
This is pure speculation. If he got the information, it would have been stored in EVA. Then why didn't Shepard have it when EDI took over EVA? Was EDI holding out on Shepard? You can't trust those synthetics! Throw them out the airlock!
Yes I read your subsequent post. Still it's speculation. There is no in game proof that TIM got the information on Mars. It was plot voodoo.
This is an incredibly funny thread to read. Its amazing how for you will go to defend or break apart peoples opinions. Please continue.
some of these posters have degrees on argueing, no bs lol!
This is pure speculation. If he got the information, it would have been stored in EVA. Then why didn't Shepard have it when EDI took over EVA? Was EDI holding out on Shepard? You can't trust those synthetics! Throw them out the airlock!
Yes I read your subsequent post. Still it's speculation. There is no in game proof that TIM got the information on Mars. It was plot voodoo.
I take what they release with skepticism, but her fanbase is probably the biggest, that's why her character is bound to have a lot, the bigger you are.
Its one part this and one part crying over some other waifu getting more content than their waifu.
Its one part this and one part crying over some other waifu getting more content than their waifu.
To be fair, I think the latter is a valid complaint. I just also think that some of those who really hate her character take it a little too far. But, meh. It's still amusing to watch.
some of these posters have degrees on argueing, no bs lol!
I think that's only Dav... er I mean Bob, since he has a degree in omniscience.
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