I rather like the religions in Thedas and would be interested in roleplaying believers of each one. I have my own religion in real life, but I'm happy to have my Dwarf Inquisitor venerate the Ancestors and the Stone. I would love to play with an Andrastian Dalish Inquisitor. The irony sounds fun.
while the Andrastian Dalish was a good jibe at Lob, I don't really see it as being at all realistic. An atheist dwarf would be more plausible to me than an Andrastian Dalish.
Guest_Dobbysaurus_*
The same way I feel about the religions on Earth. I couldn't care less.
I rather like the religions in Thedas and would be interested in roleplaying believers of each one. I have my own religion in real life, but I'm happy to have my Dwarf Inquisitor venerate the Ancestors and the Stone. I would love to play with an Andrastian Dalish Inquisitor. The irony sounds fun.
I'm with you. Religion is nice to roleplay interesting characters. However, to do that, I'd like to know more about each religion's theological aspects.
We know more about the Chantry, but it isn't enough. They burn their dead and believe that once the Chant of Light is sung across the world the Maker will come back. They supposedly hold the belief that the Maker isn't present in every day moments, according to their most orthodox theology, yet several people (like Elthina) talk about the Maker as if he influenced an event such as the end of the Fifth Blight. Why do people say "thank the Maker", if he's not present according to their religion? Or maybe the orthodoxy is not as such, and only in Ferelden were uptight about it?
Questions, questions, to make a nice Andrastian character that isn't a Catholic with another name.
while the Andrastian Dalish was a good jibe at Lob, I don't really see it as being at all realistic. An atheist dwarf would be more plausible to me than an Andrastian Dalish.
It is rather possible. The possibility of conversion was one of the factors that had the Dalish close their borders. I can see a Dalish elf deciding that the Maker and Andraste made their freedom possible while the Creators did not and if one should run into proof of the Dalish starting the war, that would be enough to shake one's faith in the People's ability to retain history and lore.
Are you saying Medevial europe had no people capable of rational thought? You also encounter Petrice. You also encounter dwarves who stubbornly hold to belligerent beliefs about the caste system, you also encounter a mage who thinks he can bring his wife back by combining pieces of women who look like her, you also encounter horribly repressive regimes and people thoughout the myriad cultures of Thedas. Just because they are rational thinkers, doesn't mean they are educated.
Petrice isn't unintelligent. You might not agree with her, I don't. But she's an intelligent enough person, definitely. She understands her goals and seems to rationalize her actions well enough inside of those goals. But the point wasn't that everyone in Thedas is intellectually evolved, it's that it's very common to meet people on the other side of the spectrum from what you're listing. Sure, there are people that are unintelligent, also. It just doesn't follow that there's nearly no people capable of rational thought outside fervent religious belief to believe your PC couldn't stand a good chance at being so.
It is rather possible. The possibility of conversion was one of the factors that had the Dalish close their borders. I can see a Dalish elf deciding that the Maker and Andraste made their freedom possible while the Creators did not and if one should run into proof of the Dalish starting the war, that would be enough to shake one's faith in the People's ability to retain history and lore.
but here is your catch 22, if they were no longer practicing the dalish beliefs, they would no longer be dalish. They would just be a tattoed CE.
It is rather possible. The possibility of conversion was one of the factors that had the Dalish close their borders. I can see a Dalish elf deciding that the Maker and Andraste made their freedom possible while the Creators did not and if one should run into proof of the Dalish starting the war, that would be enough to shake one's faith in the People's ability to retain history and lore.
Well, the Dalish do know about Andraste and don't speak ill of her, so maybe an open-minded Dalish Inquisitor? The problem is that such a character shouldn't have much access to Chantry lore and dogma, so he or she shoukd have ended up building their own version of Andrastianism.
Wow, seeing the potential now. Put that Andrastian Dalish and Leliana brainstorming together and a new Andrastian heresy may be born! Like the Cathars or the Bogomils. The date wouldn't be too far from the equivalent period in Medieval Europe. A pity, I doubt the game will allow the character to create a new religion, or branch of the religion 
Petrice isn't unintelligent. You might not agree with her, I don't. But she's an intelligent enough person, definitely. She understands her goals and seems to rationalize her actions well enough inside of those goals. But the point wasn't that everyone in Thedas is intellectually evolved, it's that it's very common to meet people on the other side of the spectrum from what you're listing. Sure, there are people that are unintelligent, also. It just doesn't follow that there's nearly no people capable of rational thought outside fervent religious belief to believe your PC couldn't stand a good chance at being so.
Never claimed Petrice wasn't intelligent, I just don't think she is logical or reasoned thinker. Rational thought sure, most people are capable of rational thought, but it is a bigger jump from rational thought to throwing off the chains of your entire belief system just cause. Especially when there isn't much of a chance that you will be exposed to atheistic beliefs. I guess it boils down to, I don't think it would seriously ever occur to any of the dinizens of Thedas we could play in DAO, that there wasn't a god or gods.
while the Andrastian Dalish was a good jibe at Lob, I don't really see it as being at all realistic. An atheist dwarf would be more plausible to me than an Andrastian Dalish.
The entire premise of the Dalish is keeping true to their cultural and religious views. I'm not sure I see the point to wanting to play as a Dalish who is simply Dalish in name only; it's akin to wanting to play as a member of the Chantry clergy who doesn't believe in the Maker. To each their own, I suppose.
Well it could be the elf simply adopted an Antivan attitude about Faith, they would consider themselves their Nationality or in this case Culturally first, aka they would be Dalish via birth and being raised among them, but their faith wouldn't be construed in that manner.
Zevran presented an interesting perspective on that matter given he claims to be an Andrastian and yet he doesn't overly abide by their belief system nor does he overtly even praise their God, would be considered a follower of Andraste in name only? It comes down to just what labels you want to attach to cultural identity and faith. And just how far you want to hold those labels to consider the people with them to be said thing or no.
but here is your catch 22, if they were no longer practicing the dalish beliefs, they would no longer be dalish. They would just be a tattoed CE.
Isn't that a No True Scotsman fallacy? I'm not saying it makes much sense (although it would be really funny if the other characters had the correct reaction), but Dalish and City Elves have much more differences than just their religions.
Hmm... I more see it as a Dalish Inquisitor converting over time. I would have a more open-minded Dalish Inquisitor with a curious mind and respect for Andraste like Velanna. I can see him changing over time thanks to exposure to Andrastianism and texts he wouldn't normally have access to. You guys would be right to say it wouldn't make sense for him to start as an Andrastian. Converting from one religion to another would be quite interesting to roleplay.
Well, the Dalish do know about Andraste and don't speak ill of her, so maybe an open-minded Dalish Inquisitor? The problem is that such a character shouldn't have much access to Chantry lore and dogma, so he or she shoukd have ended up building their own version of Andrastianism.
Isn't that a No True Scotsman fallacy? I'm not saying it makes much sense (although it would be really funny if the other characters had the correct reaction), but Dalish and City Elves have much more differences than just their religions.
Not really, the dalish are their religion. Their belief structure is what defines them and is part of every level of their society far more then any of the other religions on Thedas. In short, the dalish faith and the dalish people are basically the same thing.
The elven faith doesn't; she's regarded as a shemlen prophet to a foreign faith. Velanna speaks highly about her, but the elven Warden can state that Andraste simply used their people for her own ends, so it's not necessarily a universal perception.
The PC can spew all sorts of interesting and inaccurate things in both games
Especially Snarky Hawke.
Isn't that a No True Scotsman fallacy? I'm not saying it makes much sense (although it would be really funny if the other characters had the correct reaction), but Dalish and City Elves have much more differences than just their religions.
Never claimed Petrice wasn't intelligent, I just don't think she is logical or reasoned thinker. Rational thought sure, most people are capable of rational thought, but it is a bigger jump from rational thought to throwing off the chains of your entire belief system just cause. Especially when there isn't much of a chance that you will be exposed to atheistic beliefs. I guess it boils down to, I don't think it would seriously ever occur to any of the dinizens of Thedas we could play in DAO, that there wasn't a god or gods.
Well, "I don't think what you're telling me seems plausible", is a default theory that basically anyone could come to. Making up a new set of gods you think exist is unlikely, but not impossible. Coming to the conclusion that a religion you haven't probably encountered or have little knowledge of yet is even less plausible. I honestly find it extremely hard to believe that 0% of any population this size would reject the concept of religion. It's something that's basically always been around, so I have a hard time understanding why it seems so unlikely in this world, that's a lot more advanced than our world was during atheism's earliest recordings.
The PC can spew all sorts of interesting and inaccurate things in both games
Especially Snarky Hawke.
I don't think the protagonist can know for certain, but it's more an issue about how an elf can view Andraste, not what the absolute truth of the universe is.
No my point was that within universe the PC can basically express whatever the gamer controlling them wishes them to express.
I wouldn't take it as indicative of any viewpoint beyond their own, that's all i am saying.
Well, "I don't think what you're telling me seems plausible", is a default theory that basically anyone could come to. Making up a new set of gods you think exist is unlikely, but not impossible. Coming to the conclusion that a religion you haven't probably encountered or have little knowledge of yet is even less plausible. I honestly find it extremely hard to believe that 0% of any population this size would reject the concept of religion. It's something that's basically always been around, so I have a hard time understanding why it seems so unlikely in this world, that's a lot more advanced than our world was during atheism's earliest recordings.
Ok, here then- Did we meet any atheist in DAO? Any other characters that were products of the backgrounds our characters could come from who espoused a non belief in any kind of supreme beings or being?
I didn't see it. The idea that your character could be that rare person who completely rebels against everything he has been exposed to isn't impossible, but not being impossible doesn't truly make it likely.
No my point was that within universe the PC can basically express whatever the gamer controlling them wishes them to express.
I wouldn't take it as indicative of any viewpoint beyond their own, that's all i am saying.
The entire premise of the Dalish is keeping true to their cultural and religious views. I'm not sure I see the point to wanting to play as a Dalish who is simply Dalish in name only; it's akin to wanting to play as a member of the Chantry clergy who doesn't believe in the Maker. To each their own, I suppose.
I think it depends on whether or not you think being Dalish is only about religion. Their culture is quite distinct, even if you don't necessarily believe in the religion in a practical way, as opposed to a series of allegories. Their hunters, nomadic lifestyle, structure favoring mage leaders and history are all very unique to them. Personally, I would think all of these things would be very culturally important to a Dalish person, regardless of the religion. Andrastrians don't really have this in common, because the Chantry is spread across nearly the entirety of Thedas. Their history and culture still varies wildly in comparison, more so influenced by nationality than by their connection to the Chantry.
That's not accurate; the player is confined to say things that make sense in the context of the narrative. It's not like the player can break the fourth wall or anything like that. I'm not seeing why you're taking such an issue with an elf not having a positive view about Andraste.
No i don't give two ****s about what random pixels believe about other pixels, I am pointing out that belief in context is only what is presented via Player option, the choices in question come from the context of the narrative but in so far as how they are presented via the PC. Respectful, Blasphemous, Sultry, Violent, Arrogant, Egoistical, Evil, Apathetic, Whatever.
It comes down to the choice the gamer makes, and thus i wouldn't view it again as anything but indicative of that PC choice.
Its about the way i don't measure individual belief for that of cultural belief or racial belief.
Unless if it happens to cross lines that make it so, but the example provided obviously doesn't fit said criteria.
I think it depends on whether or not you think being Dalish is only about religion. Their culture is quite distinct, even if you don't necessarily believe in the religion in a practical way, as opposed to a series of allegories. Their hunters, nomadic lifestyle, structure favoring mage leaders and history are all very unique to them. Personally, I would think all of these things would be very culturally important to a Dalish person, regardless of the religion.
Andrastrians don't really have this in common, because the Chantry is spread across nearly the entirety of Thedas. Their history and culture still varies wildly in comparison, more so influenced by nationality than by their connection to the Chantry.
Ok, here then- Did we meet any atheist in DAO? Any other characters that were products of the backgrounds our characters could come from who espoused a non belief in any kind of supreme beings or being?
I didn't see it. The idea that your character could be that rare person who completely rebels against everything he has been exposed to isn't impossible, but not being impossible doesn't truly make it likely.
I think it's more accurate to say some characters come across as agnostic, or skeptical but not disbelieving. Even Wynne admits when explaining the Black City that it may just be allegory. Most characters don't seem that vehemently attached to the legends, to me. I think that's why people point out Leliana and Sebastian as "religious" characters. Most characters in Dragon Age don't seem that attached to religion.
I'm not arguing whether it's "likely". Most people in Thedas are probably not atheists. The fact that the player could be is enough for me to support it being an option. I wouldn't even personally have my character take a hardline stance against the existence of any gods, but it seems to be something a lot of people are interested in, it's definitely not impossible and I favor people having as many options as possible. One or two dialog options for it isn't really asking for a lot of resources.
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