Aller au contenu

Photo

Mages - DAO to DA II


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
5 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Schanez

Schanez
  • Members
  • 190 messages

Hi there,

I recently decided to start a Dragon Age II playthough. I played Origins a lot and really liked the game. I played all the classes, but it was the mage that I always returned to. So here comes my question, are there any major diferences between DAO and DAII? I read that they nerfed the damage output a lot. I also saw on a wiki that there are a lot of talents simply missing. Some trees were squished, others were split.

 

So far I figured there is no Arcane Warrior, but there is a Force Mage. It's tempting as a specialisation for me, but I think I will go for the Blood Magic. They removed a lot of Glyphs or Curses, some support spells as well as binding some spells to upgrades. It all sounds like a big revolution to mages. So can anyone more experienced help me out figuring what's what?

 

My intention was to play like I did most of my time in DAO. A mage that's mainly a Crowd Controller then a real damage dealer. So let me show you my usuall DAO Mage build:

 

Specialisations:

Blood Mage 4x4

Keepre 4x4

 

Primal:

Earth 4x4

Cold 4x4

 

Spirit:

Mana Alteration 4x4

 

Entropy:

Debilation 4x4

Hexes 4x4

Draining 4x4

 

And I still have 8 or more points left to pick what suits me in that playthrough. So as you can see I want a Battleground Controll mage with some damage abilities. And after checking DA II spells I am a little bit puzzled. They removed Mana Alteration completely, so there is no Mana Clash for fast mage clearing. There is no Curse of Mortality, so nothing will stop enemies from regenerating.

 

So to get a decent Controll Mage I should max out Entropy, Primal and either Blood Magic or Force Mage?

 

EDIT:

How is the Friendly Fire in DA II? I am reading throught the spells descriptions, but they all mention hitting foes. Like Chain Lightning or Tempest will never hit ally? Also is there any cast time for Tempest as it's not listed in spell's description.



#2
Ferretinabun

Ferretinabun
  • Members
  • 2 686 messages

Ho ho, my friend, there are a LOT of differences. Not necessarily a bad thing, though. There are some things DA2 did better (talent/spell trees) and some things they did worse (enemy wave attacks). Just bear in mind DA2 is a different beast and you'll be fine.

 

However, I would say that mage, built correctly, is still probably the most powerful class. So, nice to know some things don't change.

 

Yes, Arcane Warrior is gone. I'm not mourning it. It was way overpowered, and shouldn't be a common spec anyway given its acquisition. Shapeshifter is gone too. Mana Alteration might seem a loss, but there are noticeably fewer enemy mages in DA2 than in Origins. When they do pop up, they're lethal, but they're conspicuously few and far between.

 

 

On the other hand, Force Mage is completely awesome! It is crowd control beyond your wildest dreams. The best spec for a mage (I'd say "best in the whole game" if it weren't for Assassin, and even that's a bit neck-and-neck). It's great for yanking a whole bunch of enemies together and then dropping a powerful AOE on them, which pretty much sounds like what you're going for. Build this tree ASAP. Fist of the Maker and Telekinetic Burst aren't so great, so don't bother upgrading them, but you will need to get them to unlock everything else, which is pretty much all golden. Go nuts on it.

 

For the damage side of your CC/Damage sandwich, the elemental tree is all rather tasty. Chain Lightning in the Primal Tree is also very good. Between these you'll be hitting a lot of enemies extremely hard. The obvious downside is that they're AOEs, so your companions might get caught in friendly-fire when you play at higher difficulties. You could make sure to boost their magic/elemental resistance (Elemental Aegis, for example, is great for warriors), or you could simply field an all-ranged party (which is a pretty good call generally - your ranged companions all rock).

 

For your second spec I have to say that Blood Mage is rather underwhelming. If you want to go that route, then bear in mind to build your constitution, but even so it's not the powerhouse spec it was in Origins (it was better initially, but then one of the patches nerfed it). Spirit Healer is okay, but it doesn't sound like it fits with what you really want to do with this build. In short, I probably wouldn't waste my points on a second spec tree. Force Mage and Elemental are the key ones in this build. The bottom half of the Creation tree is great (Haste and Heroic Aura are both very nice). On the other hand, Walking Bomb was simply made for a Force Mage and is both brutal and hilarious - even though the Spirit tree is otherwise largely underwhelming.

 

Entropy seems a good enough tree, but to be honest, I've never really build very deeply into it, myself. Like, ever. Maybe that's just my oversight. But in any case, it doesn't seem to fit terribly well with your build. And in any case, you will get a companion who seems to suit it, if you're set on getting some mileage out of it.

 

Another thing to remember about DA2 combat is Cross Class Combos (CCCs). In DA2, each class has some abilities/spells which can put enemies in a particular state, and other abilities/spells which exploit the other states for lots of extra damage. Mage has BRITTLE, Rogue has DISORIENTATE and Warrior has STAGGER. As a mage with Winter's Blast (and possibly Dessicate too?) you'll be causing a good few Brittles, so make sure you give your allies abilities which exploit them, and make sure you set this in the tactics. Here's a reference chart:

 

http://dragonage.wik...oss-class_combo

 

One final thing: I want to make a special note about enemy rogues (Rage demons count here too). Newbies HATE them. Quite understandably. They turn themselves invisible and then suddenly appear behind one of your party members dealing MASSIVE amounts of damage in a backstab, which is quite often an instakill. They're quite the little buggers. However, they are manageable when you know how...

 

The important thing to note is that rogues do not simply teleport. So when they have gone invisible, they still have to cross the battlefield to get behind your party member. The thing is, some spells/abilities have the power to knock them back out of 'invisibility', and thus abort the backstab. Fireball is one. Winter's Blast is another (though this one is rather difficult to pull off, since it's range is small and centered on you). Bursting Arrow is another (one for your ranged rogues there). And if Force Mage didn't have enough to recommend it already, Pull of the Abyss works here too. As soon as you see a rogue go invisible, instantly fire off one of these at the spot where you last saw him (or slightly in front - they will have moved in the time it takes you to fire the spell) and ta-dah! Then lay the hurt on them! All the hurt!

 

Good luck, and enjoy.


  • Chov54 aime ceci

#3
Ferretinabun

Ferretinabun
  • Members
  • 2 686 messages

 

EDIT:

How is the Friendly Fire in DA II? I am reading throught the spells descriptions, but they all mention hitting foes. Like Chain Lightning or Tempest will never hit ally? Also is there any cast time for Tempest as it's not listed in spell's description.

 

The lack of FF is why Chain Lightning and Tempest are considered very good, but yes, there is a cast time for Tempest.



#4
Schanez

Schanez
  • Members
  • 190 messages

FF:

 

So Chain Lightning and Tempest will hit enemies only, but a spell like Fireball will do normal AoE to all in the radius? That sounds reasonable.

 

CCC:

 

I was reading about it just this morning. I see a great potential in Primal to "detonate" Staggered enemies, but with what I have in mind I won't have a lot of Brittled targets. I was reluctant to go into Elemental due to friendly fire, but it's the key to cross-class combinations for a mage. I might look into it more, once I discover how many talent points there are in the game, calculators say it's 30 and some other sources say it's over 50.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking about Force Mage. He seems like a walking CC god and the Fortitude seems like a good bonus. But considering the ammount of talent points, which is still a mystery to me, I was going to sacrifice FM for Blood Mage. The second one is more about damage. but still has some nice controll spells.

 

As for non-spec trees:

 

Entopy was a good way to controll the flow of the battle. Like for example the Wraiths from the hidden flasks in DAO were turned to a mere annoyence, from gods of mass destruction.

 

Arcane never sounded like a tree to develop, but they buffed Arcane Shield to work on all party members, so it's worth a look at least. Other then that, nothing too tempting.

 

Creation is for my second mage, so I will skip this one. I am not going to be a healer.

 

Spirit is interesting. Walking Bomb with Corrosive and Virulent upgrades might work well with Blood Slave upgraded to Blood Spatter. I am not sure you can cast the bomb on charmed target, will have to check it out. Still it's a hilarious ammount of AoE damage.

 

Primal is still my favourite. Even more since I learned about the Brittle effect of Petrify. I am not sure if shatter is still present. I can't find it on any wiki, so I assume it's not.

 

Elemental will need a lot of caution around my teammates. Fireballs only for ranged targets and cones perfectly aimed and all should be fine. Still I am thinking of sacrificing this one for the sake of Primal if the talent points are so few.

 

 

 

So overall good combinations are Elemental with Force Mage when it comes to high damage and a bonus of Entropy for controll or Spirit for more damage. Or Primal with Force Mage and Entopy for insane controll and some damage. I guess I will just have to teach my second mage the Force Mage as an addition to Spirit Healer.



#5
Ferretinabun

Ferretinabun
  • Members
  • 2 686 messages

You're pretty much looking at 25-30 points to spend on spells, give or take. The Legacy and Mark of the Assassin DLCs will obvs add extra XP, and the Black Emporium includes another upgrade potion (on top of the ones that can be found and crafted in the vanilla game). I finished a runthrough just yesterday and I ended up with 29 talent (read 'spell') points - and that was without the Mark of the Assassin DLC, and the potion you can craft to give everyone an extra point. On the other hand, I know all the secret bosses and I only got my last point before the very final battle (the last couple are generally a little redundant).



#6
Schanez

Schanez
  • Members
  • 190 messages

So now that I know there are secret bosses I will have to look in each corrner and check each shade... I just can't let them be.

 

Returning to topic, if I have 25-30 points it means I will be able to get all spells from 3-4 trees. And it also means I will have to skip a lot of upgrades to do so, as one tree fully upgraded costs 10 points. It's a little bit silly, as in the first part we had somewhere around 40-50 points. Oh well... Thank you for the replies, I think I know all I wanted to. Saved me a lot of time figuring all this stuff myself.